Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
SkyFisher, Ne13, tdickie, larry yaley, Webster
15620 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15620 Members
36 Forums
35967 Topics
489267 Posts

Max Online: 1210 @ 08/23/18 11:01 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24029
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19493
Dave Davidson1 13537
Bill Cody 12449
Who's Online
9 registered (DC70, KingRace78, HenryCountyAL, tr889, Bing, RAH, Johnny98, anthropic, ronman), 170 Guests and 455 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#479811 - 09/11/17 06:03 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
mglanham Offline


Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 19
Loc: VA
Old Farm Pond Update

Hey Board,

I moved forward with some renovation of the old farm pond I mentioned above. The pond was drained, the dam was cleared of all trees, etc, and then a new clay core was put in and the dam was raised about three feet. The clay came from my property and was burnt red and of high quality. See pics and then I'll post my issues/concerns:
[img]http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah241/mglanham1/IMG_1590_zps3xzs7vlz.jpg~original[/img]
[img]http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah241/mglanham1/IMG_1028_zpsunoqgrju.jpg~original[/img]

[img]http://i1382.photobucket.com/albums/ah241/mglanham1/IMG_1594_zpsqmdo1790.jpg~original[/img]


Edited by mglanham (09/11/17 06:09 PM)

Top
#479813 - 09/11/17 06:18 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
mglanham Offline


Registered: 11/04/16
Posts: 19
Loc: VA
In the three pics, one is of the early dam construction, one is how the dam looks today (pic with son), and the bubble picture is what I find behind the dam after heavy rains.

Behind the dam there are two very small natural springs. These springs run clear and cold. The contractor said he dug very deep in front of them to put the core in and never hit those springs. IE, the water is actually spring water and not a leak from the dam.

The pond essentially fills up right to the old water line and won't climb up the dam any further. My contractor thinks that we just need more water and that it should fill up in time. My concern is that there is a leak and the bubbles confirm this.

Anyone out there have springs that run underneath their pond? I'm curious if its possible that as the water level of my pond rises....it somehow finds its way under the dam/core and bubbles back up.

The property is located about an hour or so from me, so it's hard to monitor.

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated.

Top
#479824 - 09/12/17 02:23 AM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6962
Loc: St Louis, MO area
I'm not following how the bubbles confirm any leak...the bubbles kind of look like they are produced from decay gasses and soil settlement to me.

The contractor said he dug the core "deep", but did he dig down to and tie it into good clay? How was the core compacted? Was any of the rest of the pond clay lined and compacted?

A pond can be built over springs if a suitably thick, well compacted clay liner is created. If springs flow into your pond, they can also become drains as water seeks it's lowest level..
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


Top
#483908 - 12/08/17 03:30 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
MidMoAdam Offline


Registered: 12/08/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
mglanham and others, please help!
I'm new to the forum, but have gotten a lot of great info lately. Thank you!

I have a newly acquired large pond that is need of a lot of work and looking for tips based on your relevant experience.

Problems and Current Condition: It is 4.4 acre pond. Silted in (unsure how much) such that water lillies are growing around entire perimeter covering about 2 to 2.5 acres (where the water is between 0 and 5 feet). There is coontail throughout. Pretty bad muskrat infestation (though 15 fewer as of this weekend). Deepest is 15ft in one small area. I'm told it is very old (>50 years). It does not have a drain pipe...just earthen spillway that has some washout problems. Back of dam has lots of trees. Water is crystal clear. Had cows in it for a few years, but they are all off it now.

Solutions that have been discussed/proposed (in no particular order):
1. Have the dam cut, dig it out with dozer, etc. Had a local excavator with lots of experience tell me this would be astronomically expensive because he said i would not believe how much muck/silt is in the bottom due to age.
2. Don't clean out, just cut a new core on the back of dam and raise dam about 6 feet. This would significantly increase size of lake. Not sure I want one that big...but the property would support it. Seems like burying the problem but not sure if that matters.
3. Siphon it down about 6 or 7 feet and then have the edges only cleaned up with dozer or excavator.
4. Perhaps a combination of 2 & 3. Clean out edges and then only raise water level 2-3 feet.
5. Chemical and Biological approach: Kill aquatic life with chemical and die. Install hefty aerations system and apply the bacteria.

All of the above solutions would be hired out to local professionals.

Objectives are Aesthetics and Fishing and maybe Swimming without spending an absolute fortune if possible.

Thanks in advance guys...

Top
#483922 - 12/08/17 07:04 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5588
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Welcome to PBF MidMoAdam!

I think there are lots of variables that come into play on a project like that. With the money that will be involved, regardless of the option chosen, I would invest in a pro pond builder for a consult. IMO, this is not a project you want to take the,"Let's try this" approach. I'm sure if you sent a PM (Private message) to Bob Lusk he could either help you himself or steer you to someone that can. There are several good books in the Pond Boss store that should also be helpful.

Good Luck!

Bill D.


Edited by Bill D. (12/08/17 08:35 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

Top
#483947 - 12/09/17 10:27 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
MidMoAdam Offline


Registered: 12/08/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
Thank you. I appreciate the advice.

Adam

Top
#483954 - 12/10/17 11:04 AM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: MidMoAdam]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Big project.

Welcome to the forum.

The lillies can somewhat selectively be controled with a herbicide. I say somewhat selectively because the rhizomes of one plant may be connected to the one next to it. So a systemic herbicide could kill several down the chain if you are only trying to selectively kill off part of the lillies. If you want to kill them all not a problem.

Any herbicide control of weeds be careful to not do all the pond at once. Too much dead matter decaying all at once can cause a low DO event and fish kill. Kill off sections at a time over a period of time.

Coontail I know what is because it grows wild in local streams but I am unfamiliar with its control.

Muskrats can be trapped.

15 ft sounds like enough depth to me but I am much further south. Down here we usually do not dig ponds deeper than 10 feet. But your location may need to be deeper to prevent winter kill.

Your options sound thought out. None are likely cheap, but what is today? At least you have a nice size BOW to work with.


Edited by snrub (12/10/17 11:08 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#483967 - 12/10/17 09:39 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
MidMoAdam Offline


Registered: 12/08/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
Thanks John,

I'm fine with the 15 foot depth. The problem is it is only in the middle....around the edge is so shallow. It can be 100' from the shoreline before it reaches 4 ft deep in some parts.

Adam

Top
#483976 - 12/11/17 08:08 AM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: MidMoAdam]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Yes that is problematic. Lots of shallow water just begs to be filled up with aquatic vegetation.

When it comes to cleaning out something of that age, it is often just as economical to just build an additional pond, leaving the original one "natural" and being what it already is. But if the current pond is in a perfect strategic location, cleaning out might be the only option.

In our area we could just take a trackhoe and go around the outside and deepen what we could reach and help it a lot. I have done that to one very old pond on my place. But not all areas can do that without breaching the sealing bottom layer and creating a leaky pond. You would have to seek local advice about your soils before doing something like that. We have mostly solid clay we dig into.


Edited by snrub (12/11/17 08:10 AM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#484085 - 12/13/17 09:06 AM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
MidMoAdam Offline


Registered: 12/08/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
That is exactly the problem. The pond is perfectly situated because it is the view from the back of my house. I'm looking at it from my dinging room table as I type this. I could build another one but would barely be able to see it due to terrain, so that is not an option.

I'll look into the soils. I think we can excavate the edge no problem.

Do you seen any major drawbacks to the idea of raising the dam to raise the water level 6 feet or so? Assuming the construction is done properly. All of the sediment and nutrient would still be down there. Is that bad?

Thanks

Top
#484096 - 12/13/17 12:34 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: MidMoAdam]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Raising the level, if practical, is likely one of your best options. You don't get rid of the old nutrient load, which can be a negative, but it sure avoids a lot of the problems that come along with cleaning it out.

If you do raise the level, by all means, get dirt from around the outside edge and slope what will become the new banks just as you would in a new pond. This will prevent you from having the same problem ten gears down the road that you have now. If you can raise the new level enough to put all existing shallow water too deep for weeds to grow, and shape the new bank areas at 3 to 1 and deep enough, I think that could be a moderate cost solution to your problem. In the new outter bank area you could also do whatever you wanted with new fish structure before it filled. That is if you don't mind managing your already existing fish population.


Edited by snrub (12/13/17 12:36 PM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#484112 - 12/13/17 11:05 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
MidMoAdam Offline


Registered: 12/08/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
Thank you. I appreciate that insight.

Top
#484115 - 12/14/17 07:23 AM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13537
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Assure that you mix the new soil with the existing stuff at the top of the dam. You donít want a seam that will leak
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

Top
#484116 - 12/14/17 07:38 AM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: MidMoAdam]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
One thing to think about as you are considering your new pond level is that it will not always be at full pool. I have ended up raising 5 of my ponds level by at least a few inches (nothing major like you will be doing).

When you are designing the new full pool level and envision the new banks and perhaps a dock or other features, a person tends to see it at full pool level. But with a watershed pond in the midwest reality is it will only be at actual full pool maybe 10 or 20% of the time. For short times it will be above full pool while water is exiting the overflow, but for a cconsiderable part of the year it will be an inch to perhaps a foot below full pool during dry periods.

So in your "vision" of what the new pond will look like after finished, consider also what it will look like at 6" below full pool. With adequately sloped sides it may not look much different. But with lots of shallow water almost flat banks it can look quite a bit different.
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
#484127 - 12/14/17 03:08 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
MidMoAdam Offline


Registered: 12/08/17
Posts: 7
Loc: Missouri
I went out today and walked the property to get a better idea of how much runoff is going to this pond and then measured that area with an online mapping tool. Turns out it is only ~25 acres of runoff including the pond itself. I was previously guessing it was almost double that.

Any estimate as to how much pond that can support?

I would describe is as a gentle to moderate slope. Mostly brush-hogged fescue pasture, some no-till row crop.

Thx

Top
#484128 - 12/14/17 03:52 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: mglanham]
Bocomo Offline


Registered: 05/06/12
Posts: 1148
Loc: Boone County, MO (pond)
Hi MidMo,

The MU extension office suggests 10-20 ac runoff per surface ac.

https://extension2.missouri.edu/G9474#size
_________________________
Our old pond project (updated 4/11/17)
+Donate ('17)

Top
#484133 - 12/14/17 05:32 PM Re: Draining Old Farm Pond [Re: MidMoAdam]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
At times I wish I had a little more runoff for my 3 acre pond, then a couole times a year I wish I had less. My pond has minimal watershed area and in fact my NRCS guy designed and we installed a terrace in adjacent field just so we would have more runoff.

I can not remember off hand exactly how much area we have but I'm guessing it no more than 25 acres and maybe no more than 20.

Thing is, we get about 42" rainfall a year and it is not uncommon to get two or three inches in a single rain. So at certain times we get a lot of runoff.

If you have a good NRCS agent, they should be able to help you.

post with pictures of water going over emergency overflow


Edited by snrub (12/14/17 05:33 PM)
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Today's Birthdays
ealong59, loretta, Rick Elrod
Recent Posts
2.5 Acre Lake in Indiana, Stocking Tips for Fall
by RAH
Automatic Siphon System;
by DC70
04:25 PM
Hello from Central Texas
by anthropic
04:21 PM
Diffuser maintainance
by ronman
02:38 PM
Texas Hunter Fish Feeder Upper Motor
by anthropic
02:11 PM
Mike Whatley, same chips?
by DonoBBD
11:27 AM
Water quality questions
by Mike Whatley
10:34 AM
My pond full of outcast
by Mike Whatley
10:23 AM
Pond Boss Forum get together, Sept 22, 2018
by jpsdad
09:36 AM
Post Flood Aeration
by Johnny98
08:06 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Vegetation ID
Our new pond
CNBG
My Best Longear so far
Help ID this fish
Crayfish monster.

© 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide