Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Raising Forage and Bait How many shinners??

I have a 1 acre pond that already has Lord knows how many FHM and bout 1,000 CNBG that are 2-3" was wanting to get the shiners in so spawn in the spring and summer, but how many should I add?

Good question. I would be interested in hearing inputs on that as well. I have a small school of GSH that seems to never decrease much or increase much from year to year. Although this fall the school was slightly larger and I could see what appeared to be some SFS had joined the GSH school.

My GSH got started when I found a few (3 or 4) hitchhikers mixed in with my original FHM stockers and went ahead and tossed them in. So my gene pool has to be weak! I'm considering boosting the GSH numbers a good bit as I've recently read in some old threads that they will eat a lot of FA if other pond species make zooplankton, etc. scarce and force them to FA. In my case, I'd like to know how many to stock in a pond that already has apex predators.

I'd also appreciate confirmation that GSH eat FA if anybody has experience/knowledge they could share

I would be leery of relying on GSH to eat enough FA to make a noticable difference. Remember there are various genera of FA likely some much more palatable than others. There are numerous variables with this. I would do more homework on the topic with some substantial proof not just opinion or wishful thinking before counting of GSH to control some FA. What about the fact that a high density of GSH will graze down the zooplankton needed by other small fish? A larger good diverse zooplankton community is a very important part of the healthy sport fish pond.

Thanks Bill! As usual, all good points to consider. I'll probably either just stick with the existing population or maybe add a few to prop up the gene pool a little.

getting off topic, dont care about them eating FA, want them for bass food!

Dinsmore says: "dont care about them eating FA, want them for bass food!" Well then that is a different goal. GSF as a main or good forage item is a legitimate use. Always consider the consequences and the final goal when using the tools in your pond management tool box.

Sorry for the Hijack Dinsmore!

In an effort to get your thread back on topic...Dinsmore's question is

"I have a 1 acre pond that already has Lord knows how many FHM and bout 1,000 CNBG that are 2-3" was wanting to get the shiners in so spawn in the spring and summer, but how many should I add?"

Anybody got experience they can share on stocking numbers?

Dinsmore we bucket stocked a pond a few acres in size, that had small amounts of mosquito fish, along with countless Bluegill's in various size classes. This pond also had a small number of midsize bass. We bucket stocked maybe 3-4 dozen with most on the 2-3" range. Following spring I recorded videos of adult shiners 6-7" class spawning in the grasses along the banks.

Next year shiners in the 8-11" were common and a new class of 6-7" was visual evidence. The bass fed well but never wiped them out.

Shiners are for me feast or famine. One year they populate with incredible numbers and the next just a few. For us up in Ontario the common shiner seems to populate more consistent than the emerald or even the fat head minnows.

I have seen like Bill has stated that the minnow population can over power the young perch in our pond. Right now the minnows are keeping the over population of the perch. We are keeping an eye on it but pulling as many egg ribbons as we can in the spring and letting the ones we can't go is giving us enough recruitment for two fish frys a year.

Cheers Don.

Snakebit, my stocking of GSH is almost identical to yours. Two bucket stockings after two fishing trips with leftover gsh. About 3 dozen stocked. Found one gsh when shocking some 14 months later. I have not seen any other than that e shock at the pond. My lmb numbers were very low at the time of the bucket stock. So, I don't know how things will turn out with that. My son spoke of an unknown fish or fishes at the feeder awhile back, so maybe

Thanks guys for getting back on track lol. yea I just haven't seen any numbers like you do on FHM or CNBG so didn't know if there where some floating around out there, Just want my bass to have plenty of forage when I stock them in the summer so they grow up big and fat and have a variety of food, like I put in a dozen or so crawfish but I know I need to add more

For starters stock 200-500 breeder sized shiners (3"-5") per acre a couple months prior to adding fingerling LMB and stock GSH prior to their first spawn period in FL which could be soon. Make sure there is proper spawning habitat for the GSH. One option to get the fastest growing bass is to stock fewer so there is more food available for each fish(LMB). Crowding the stockers increases competition and slows growth.

thank you for the adive, i have roughly 1.2 acres was planning on ordering 100 LMB when it comes time to stock, they should have FHM,CNBG, and GSH fry to eat along with having them feed trained

Stocking 100 LMB per acre in 1.2 ac is 83/ac which is a little high compared to the new consensus / theory for growing bass the biggest and fastest. New recommendation is 50 bass/ac. 50x1.2ac = 60. Higher density than 50 per acre results in measurable slower growth of the stocker bass. It depends on your ultimate goals. The stockers will grow like gangbusters until the 1st & 2nd bass offspring develops to heavily compete for food. Using fed trained stocker bass and feeding pellets may help improve growth for more than 50 initial bass per ac. Be aware that fingerling bass are feed trained for a short period of time. The very short training period for fingerlings (3"-4") often results in low numbers of pellet eaters when the bass are stocked into a forage dense pond. The bigger the pellet trained stockers the more that will stay to eating pellets.

Just a thought. Generally speaking with LMB it is not the original stockers that need management but is rather their offspring. IMO unless your goal is many small LMB then 100 LMB stockers is to many. You would be better off long term with 50 to 60. In a southern pond stocked with standard forage and LMB (like yours) the LMB will out eat the food chain in about 2 years. The offspring of those first LMB will clean out the small forage. Studies have shown that this period can be lengthened by stocking more forage to start (or less predators or both). For example by stocking 2500 BG per acre rather than 1000 the period was extended to over 3 years. These were not managed to account for fishing so managing those #s by harvest will effect the situation.

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2 mins apart Bill and I provide the same advice !!!!

good advice, i`ll stock 60 bass that should provide good results and I should have plenty of bass to catch with good qaulity in 3 years or so.

Your Goals should be: With abundant food the stocker bass (females) after 4 years in FLorida's warmer weather should be close to 6-7lbs.
Very good LMB growth reported in Oklahoma - 8.0-8.5 lbs 22" in 5.5 years (2" stockers).
Greg Grimes in Georgia ""expected annual LMB growth.
1 yr- 11 inches 0.7 to 1 lb.
2 yr- 15 inches 1.9-2.1 lb
3 yr- 18 inches 3.3-3.7 lb
4 yr- 20 inches 4.6-5.3 lb
5 yr- 22 inches 7.5-8.5 lb
>6 yr 24 inches 9.5-11 lb
We get growth rates much better than this routinely"".

Interesting thread. I am in a similar situation as Dinsmore, my pond is smaller but has crawfish, FHM and 1-2 BG added this fall. I was planning on putting in 35-40 LMB but have almost changed my mind and am strongly considering HSB since they should be easier to maintain.

Either way, I have been told pros and cons on GSH and still have not made up my mind. My goal is a healthy BG pond with fewer but larger bass. I thought the added GSH would help protect the BG from over predation. Would it be correct to consider just adding more BG fry now to jumpstart them?

chambers270,
you thought about SMB and YP? I think that would work well with HSB. LMB can always be added later.

chambers is pretty far south for SMB-YP. Main reason is these fish are very hard to source in his area, 2nd is depending on summer water temps these two species could struggle. It would be purely an experiment. Very few have tried this fish combo in VA-GA-AL region due to 1&2. HSB can also struggle as they age in very warm summer water temps.

HSB and LMB will co-habitate readily. Some HSB may help control too many young LMB. GSH are mainly a nuisance if anglers are using small hooks and live bait such as worms, crikets, etc. IMO few GSH will survive if HSB are present since both mostly inhabit open water and the HSB will constantly terrorize the GSH as they do shad populations.

I know of some SMB and YP in the Valdosta area that seem to be doing really well. The pond does have good clean water quality. The heat seemed to be no issue at all so far.

Experiments could lead new territory , LMB can always be added later. It does take time a resources so that is the down side if things do not work as well as one envisioned.

Knowing where to get and how to manage YP-SMB in the SE US will create more exciting fishery options for pond oweners - all spirited by Pond Boss members.

I am trying to decide since I have a credit with Anderson Minnows from the last mishap. Should I just add more FHM now or add the GSH when they are ready?

I am leaning more FHM now because I don't want a lot of bait stealers when the kids are fishing.