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It takes a huge fish biomass in a sportfish pond in summer when denitrifying bacteria are flourishing to form high nitrites. It can occur in a very high fish biomass commercial production situation.


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Originally Posted By: Bob Lusk
... I worry about water quality all the time, especially during the hottest months. This lake is collecting way too many nutrients. We monitor water chemistry bi-monthly, and nitrites continue to rise...until we add tilapia....


Just a thought..Could it be that hot weather reduces the resident fish's appetites for pellets and the now excess pellets cause the nitrite levels to rise at a rate that the nitrobacter bacteria just can't keep up? Could the Tilapia stocked during this hot time be eating the otherwise wasted pellets and partially reducing the nutrient load to the nitrogen cycle process by turning some of those nutrients into flesh and enabling the nitrobacter bacteria colony to catch up?

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/30/17 09:36 PM.

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Good theory. This particular lake covers around ten acres, average depth is probably 6-7 feet, deepest water is 13. The lake perimeter is 100% riprap, limestone rocks about as big as softballs to volleyballs. The biomass of bass during last summer exceeds 300 pounds per acre, maybe as high as 350. Add another 50 pounds of tilapia per acre during rapid growth periods, plus another 100+ of forage fish, with minimal input of fresh water and we have the makings of a system approaching an aquaculture situation...in a sportfishing pond. When the fish appetites drop during hot weather, he cuts back on the fish food. If there's any wasted food, it can't be much. We added forage fish several times during the year. There were several times when we found small amounts of nitrites. But, they rise and fall, I think mostly because the lake is heavily aerated, and with large amount of rock substrate for periphyton and bacterial colonies.


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Thanks for the reply Bob. Interesting problem.

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/31/17 08:00 AM.

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Here is some info that may be helpful.


















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Eric, thanks for posting that info.

My pond is Experiment 2, and those are about the same results I'm getting with tilapia. They've really helped the bottom of the CNBG chain over the last 2 years. There's nothing better in an old pond than seeing thousands of 2"-3" CNBG swimming around the banks on warm afternoons.


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Eric,

What conclusions did the researchers reach based on this data?

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/31/17 08:29 PM. Reason: Typo

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It is just the data on what the LMB ate under the study circumstance.
















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Ewest, thanks for the info, confirms why I add Tp to the pond. Takes pressure off the cnbg, sometimes smile Wish the TFS were added for comparison to the study


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Here is some more info which may be of use.


Transactions of the American Fisheries Society
Volume 114, 1985 - Issue 5

Effects of Cover and Prey Size on Preferences of Juvenile Largemouth Bass for Blue Tilapias and Bluegills in Tanks – Harold L. Schramm Jr. and Alexander V. Zale

Abstract

The effects of vegetative cover and relative size of prey were tested on the forage preference of juvenile largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides offered blue tilapias Tilapia aurea and bluegills Lepomis macrochirus in laboratory electivity experiments. When offered forage at or near the maximum consumable size in tanks without vegetative cover, largemouth bass preferred bluegills, but consumed blue tilapias in the presence of vegetation. When offered forage smaller than the maximum consumable size in tanks without vegetation, largemouth bass selected blue tilapias. Differences between the forage species in body morphology and effective use of protective cover apparently caused the changes in prey selection. Our results suggest blue tilapias may be a suitable forage for largemouth bass, but that habitat characteristics and relative size distributions of other available forage may affect their use.




Transactions of the American Fisheries Society
Volume 115, 1986 - Issue 1

Importance of Gizzard Shad in the Diet of Largemouth Bass in Lake Shelbyville, Illinois -
Ted W. Storck



Abstract
Changes in food habits of largemouth bass Micropterus salmoides were compared with seasonal and annual changes in size composition of a gizzard shad population Dorosoma cepedianum to better understand the temporal dynamics of this species as prey for largemouth bass. Stomachs of 5,283 largemouth bass were examined during spring, summer, and fall from 1978 to 1981. Gizzard shad was the most important species in the diet of age-I and older largemouth bass in all years. However, the age and size composition, as well as the percentage of the volume contributed by this species to the diet, varied substantially among years and seasonally within each year. Variation of gizzard shad in the diet of yearling and older largemouth bass reflected changes in availability caused by high winter mortality of young-of-the-year gizzard shad in some years as well as by annual variation in the summer growth of this age group. Seasonal gaps in the availability of important size classes of gizzard shad reduced its value as a forage species. Fish contributed a major portion of the diet of young-of-the-year largemouth bass in all years but gizzard shad were important only in 1981. Age-0 gizzard shad grew more slowly in 1981, a larger fraction remained vulnerable to predation, and more were eaten by age-0 largemouth bass than in any other year.
















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ewest, that information has me thinking that yoy lmb will eat yoy gsd as a favored meal. If that is the case, then TFS should fill the same nitch for that age group. Both types of shad will travel in schools at age 0 and older. Yoy lmb will also travel in schools at year 0 to year 3 or so. I have seen five pound lmb school. Good information.

So, this is a good place for me to ask this. My pond was stocked with 300 4 to 5" TFS in the first stocking of forage fish in the pond. This was done in the fall. I followed up with 10,000 2" that following spring and again the last spring. Stocked in a fertile pond. Pond has lmb and hsb. I will on occasion see a dead floating tfs in the pond, how else would one determine to supplement stock tfs. RW of fish or water temp during the winter, any other way to determine when to restock? will eshock boat catch the tfs?

Last edited by TGW1; 02/03/17 07:49 AM.

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I can help here. Electrofishing boat isn't 100% effective to determine survival of threadfin shad after winter, until well past time to re-stock. Electrofishing open, deep water, where threadfins reside during cool months is hit or miss. If you hit, that's great. If you miss, all you know is you missed.
Wr of bass won't tell you.
Consistent water temperature readings can be of help. If water temperature drops below 42, you can pretty well expect threadfins to be gone. When water temps reach lower lethal, threadfins rise, seeking warmth. Birds have a field day, especially terns.
Otherwise, a short term gill net set can help determine. Use small mesh. So can checking stomach contents of bass via lavage.


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Thank you Bob. I am not sure if I will restock TFs this year, depends on if we see some colder winter before spring stocking times. I have seen a couple of TFS float up during the warmer months. Would I see them floating if they died from cold water temps? I have not see that during this winter so far. I have also seen them float after a large flock of cormorants were on the pond year before last. I am thinking I would see them float if they died of cold water ?

What about the HSB with Tp and stomach contents of HSB? The Tp I have seen will or can swim in open water in schools and that makes me think the HSB would feed pretty good on smaller Tp. Thoughts

Last edited by TGW1; 02/03/17 06:01 PM.

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You wouldn't necessarily see them floating in winter. They don't have a swim bladder, plus cold water keeps them from bloating fast. That gives time for other creatures to eat them.


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Will, so much for that idea. frown Thanks Mr Lusk


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TFS are excellent forage for HSB. As the water warms look for them schooling at the surface at dawn or dusk.
















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Some interesting goings-on at my pond, so I thought I would post an update...

Fishing: Have caught six LMB between 8-9 pounds this year. Lost one that I'm certain was the double-digit fish I've been waiting for : (

Culling: Have already culled 110 pounds of LMB this year.

TFS: Survived the winter and appear to be thriving.

Tilapia: 120 pounds being delivered next week to take some pressure off of the CNBG, because...

Fish Swap: Had Overton Fisheries come up last week to assist in a fish swap with a good friend. They shocked my lake and we took out approx 75 pounds of CNBG (looked like 500-600 fish of all sizes). Transported the fish to my buddy's lake about 45 minutes away. Kept CNBG in tank truck while they shocked his lake. Took out approx 150 pounds of LMB (looked like 75-100 fish), put them in the tank truck, released the CNBG and trucked the LMB back to my place where they were acclimated and released. I have great CNBG genetics that he needed and he has great LMB genetics (originally came from Harrell Arms) that I wanted introduced in my pond. Plus I took advantage of the shocking to cull some small LMB from my lake. Really fun day and I learned a lot from Walt and Clint from Overton!

Surprise: I have gizzard shad in my pond! Couldn't believe it and had never seen one, but there were a pretty decent number of them shocked up. Given the increased number of big LMB in my pond, and the new genetics added (several were already in the 3-4 pound range and these things grow FAST), I was told it shouldn't be a problem, and in fact could help with growing true trophy size bass.

Feeders: Now running three new Texas Hunter feeders and these babies are awesome. Wish I had bought them years ago! Still a ton of CNBG coming to the feeders.

Water Chemistry: Alkalinity and hardness are pretty low, so looking at adding gypsum in the coming year.

Crazy (and expensive) year at the pond so far, but I'm having a blast! Big investment, but hopefully it will pay off...


Last edited by Fishman Dan; 05/02/17 10:31 PM.

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[quote=Fishman Dan]Water Chemistry: Alkalinity and hardness are pretty low, so looking at adding gypsum in the coming year.

Thanks for the report. Very nice work !!

Do you mean lime in the sentence (red) above?

From SARC fact sheet


gypsum also can be used
to control turbidity but without
the loss of alkalinity. Gypsum
must be added to achieve a concentration
of 100 to 300 mg/L for
effective turbidity control. For
most ponds, gypsum application
rates will range from about 1,000
to 2,000 pounds per acre (Fig. 4).
In hard-water ponds (calcium
hardness greater than 50 mg/L),
the water is nearly saturated with
calcium and gypsum may be ineffective.
In that situation, alum will
be the only effective coagulant.
All the coagulants mentioned can
remove phosphorus from water.
As phosphorus is an essential
plant nutrient, it may be necessary
to fertilize the pond after treating
it for turbidity. On occasion, phytoplankton
and clay can mutually
coagulate, so fertilizing to start a
phytoplankton bloom may also
clear water of suspended clay particles.

Last edited by ewest; 05/03/17 10:41 AM.















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Sounds like things are going well for you Fishman Dan. Congrats!

Nice when a plan works out.


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