Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations E Texas Pond, Can we talk?

The drought this year has the pond down to 3.1 acres from 3.44 acres. The surface water temps have been running in the mid to high 60's except for that last cold front during this past Christmas, where surface water temp dropped to 50 or maybe little lower. Water has a nice green tent with 18" visibility. The CNBG are feeding pretty good at the 3 feeders with a 5 second throw from the THF with most all of the feed gone within 2 minutes or less. So everything is looking pretty good as far as I can tell. So, yesterday I decided to try fishing for the HSB. Now, I have never fished for them before and have never caught one till yesterday. I used ultra light spinning rod with bradded line and using a blue and white crappie jig with a spinner. A Road runner type jig. I caught my first and weighed and measured. This was my first time to ever weigh and measure any of the fish I caught from the pond. The HSB was 16" and weighted 2lbs 9 ounces. A RW of 120%. After releasing the fish and making another cast or two I hooked into another fish. It was a Texas Legacy LMB(formally Camalot Bell), 14.5" 2lb 9 ounce fish. RW was 161%. Released. Now, in the next cast or two I hooked up with a larger HSB, bigger than the first, maybe a 3rd larger. I saw the fish just before it made a second run and straitened out the hook and pulled off. So, everything sounds great. Right? Will my grandson showed up and I put him in the boat, gave him the only rod we had and we fished for another 1.5 hrs with him only catching 5 to 6" cnbg. Here lies the problem. I want to improve the fishing but I want to keep the RW up. So, any suggestions? LMB population seems to be low along with the HSB count. My goals are to grow trophy lmb, but now after hooking up with the HSB, what a fight ! The HSB fought well and a better fight than the lmb. I am trying to get my grandson more interested in fishing and taking him and not catching fish of any size is not helping. So there lies the dilemma. I would like to increase the number of HSB in the pond, improving the catch rate. The pond has TFS but after this last cold spell, and losing TFS during cold snaps. I will bump up the TFS numbers if they are available this year and I am thinking about GSH? But I have been told they could bring disease to the other fish, I have been advised against stocking them, maybe it is more prevalent in the southern climates? Your thoughts? I will add Tp this spring for additional forage and I will latter stock some more HSB for the 3rd stocking of HSB. How many HSB can be stocked and keep the RW up? Pond management discussion please. Am I asking too much of a 3 or 3 and a half acre pond here in E Texas? Thanking you for your input here guys. I am missing Georges input on these HSB, his wife gave me an HSB fly he tied. He is missed here.

What type of fishing got you interested when you were his age? Was it the type of fishing you are currently trying to produce at your pond?

How many total HSB did you stock already?

snrub, when I was his age I fished for most everything. Channel cats, white bass, crappie, lmb or anything else that would pull my string. I have always been a fisherman. And BillD I have added around 100 HSB in two years but last year I had a terrible problem with cormorants and I also had a Bald Eagle feeding at the pond everyday for 3 months. I think these birds did a number on the pond last year. One day I found high numbers of TFS along with a couple of HSB dead and floating after a cormorant attack. So, I would like to improve the catch rates on the HSB and keep the RW up in them. How many HSB is too many? And will GSH be a plus or minus when increasing the HSB? Will GSH take up where TFS might die off every 3 to 5 years and is the disease in GFS a threat to southern ponds? And I want to continue with the trophy lmb pond, My understanding is the HSB should not effect the lmb growth if I keep the forage there. I am interested in others opinion if this is an achievable goal?

Tracy, is your primary goal still to produce 10 pound LMB in as short a time frame as possible?

The reason I ask, is that adding more HSB will take additional calories away from the LMB. You've already chosen a tough path, so adding more alpha predators probably won't help to get to that goal as quickly as possible.

I don't stock GSH because they're omnivores, and I spent the last 2 years trying to rebuild the bottom of my LMB food chain. I want no additional possibility of CNBG eggs being eaten. I would love to add them, but not until I'm comfortable with my CNBG.

Tracy, sounds like you are a candidate for building yet another pond.

You need a "trash" pond where you can let the BG go to town and a place to put all your culls out of your trophy pond. A pond that will yield a fish almost every cast.

I know little of having a trophy pond, but it seems some of the requirements of a trophy pond do not lend well to high catch rates.

I have my old refurbished pond that has kind of evolved to that trash pond status. If nothing is biting in my main pond, there is always a GSF or BH that will bite a hook in the old pond. Yet I can still catch nice BG and other fish. But no trophys.

Al, Thanks for reminding me of the GSH plusses and minuses. My thoughts were the GSH would take up space in the open water, same place as the HSB and the TFS. My reading has told me that lmb will feed on the TFS when the lmb are in the two and three pound range but not so much as they grow larger. And the hatchery lmb will feed in the same open area but the spawned lmb may hold to cover for feeding (feed on the cnbg) or anything else that might pass by this area of the pond. I may just read to much And yes my plans are for growing the trophy double digit lmb are still the goals in this pond. The most recent caught lmb was 161% rw with me not seeing a fish that looked female. I did not see that swollen belly area you might see on a female lmb this time of year. Their bellies should be pretty swollen this time of year holding eggs. If it was a male, it was a great looking male. So yes I think the trophy plans are moving along. I do not fish for them but once every 3 months or so and then I fish for just one only for sampling. But I thought the HSB would not compete because they tend to stay in a different area? If I have an acre and a half of open area that is aeriated and feed added where the HSB hang out, would that effect lmb growth?

Snrub, I laugh at the suggestion of more ponds, its in my plans lol

Tracy, I think your best bet is to re-establish your forage base (TFS lost due to cold weather) before I added any more predators, but ultimately I'd talk to Todd when you discuss your plans for the year. Your forage density is what got your existing HSB and LMB to the great RWs they have, so maintaining those forage levels that got them there seems like a good start. It's obviously worked very well for you.

I haven't even fished for my HSB since last spring, so I'm anxious to see what they've done. I saw some long black backs this morning when I fed the CNBG, and that's getting me amped up for winter fishing. Fishing with suspending jerkbaits for LMB in cold water is one of my favorite things to do.

TG, if you live around the Canton area i would be more then willing to come take a look and see if i can give you any advice.

I know it always "depends", but Al would you say as a general rule
"you can never have enough bluegill"?

Mark, I don't think you can ever have too many correctly sized BG in a LMB pond. IIRC, Bill Cody had mentioned in another recent thread that 5" to 7" BG were good for 5lb LMB, and I think he hit the nail on the head with that one. I've hand dumped hundreds of CNBG and GSF, both crippled and non, in the big pond and have seen LMB simply swim away from CNBG, even those crippled, that were too big for their gape.

My electroshocking results when relating to CNBG have been the same both times, they're too big. The report wasn't sayng I had too many trophy CNBG, it was saying that I had too many that were too big as forage for the majority of my LMB population. It took me a little while to figure that one out, but the reports were correct. The 7" to 9" CNBG are what I'm removing now, and keeping my biggest CNBG for breeders and trophies.

EDIT by me: It was a confusing statement. Sorry guys.

Al my thinking was have a lot of big blue gill that are too big to be eaten so that the big ones can produce a lot of offspring that can be eaten. So when I order from Overton's I always get the jumbo size, ya think i shouldn't be doing that?

Mark, I honestly wouldn't feel comfortable advising you one way or the other. I've gotten CNBG both ways (numbers vs size), but my scenario was pretty clear cut. I had ultra clear tannin heavy water, very high coontail levels, and an older LMB population. Most of those things limited recruitment and long term survivability of my CNBG, but the shear volume of coontail allowed the CNBG to hide and grow past a useful forage size. So my CNBG got big, and my LMB stayed hungry. Hopefully that won't be the case this year. I mean the hungry LMB part.

3' TO 4" BG will grow quickly if they're fed regularly, and will start spawning quicker than you think. I knew what CNBG needed to spawn their best, but I was still surprised at the shear number of beds in 2016 vs previous years when dense coontail made it difficult for them. If I can keep the shallow water clear of weeds this year, I would be comfortable stocking a more "regular" sized CNBG. A larger percentage of those might get eaten, but there should also more spawners, so how does all that affect the total numbers produced? I just don't know.

Maybe ewest or others can offer more experienced advice.

Pug, thanks for the offer to come see and you are more than welcome to come visit. Like others, I am happy to show what has been done. It is not perfect by any means but a lesson in progress, so to speak. But I have to say that Todd and Walt and Clint at Overtons Fishery have always been here for help and to guide me along my chosen path. As I understand it, very few in Texas have taken this path. They are scheduled to drop by the first of March for a revised or to update the plans.

ZEP, like you, I thought we need to keep the largest cnbg in the pond.

Al, which jerkbait is your go to bait? I keep thinking of that fly rod bait, the suspended white shad looking bait, I have to get one of those. I will continue to add TFS yearly if I can get them. Cold fronts effect suppliers, I've learned. I have seen no TFS floaters so far due to cold snap.

I will continue to ladder stock HSB until the RW is at or below 100% and then I will remove some. Most likely the wrong path. I was interested in recommendations of how many per acre, I guess "it depends" I love the way they fight when hooked.

Tracy, I like the Jackall Mask 100, and any Megabass that's a 100 or 110. Unfortunately, Jackall quit importing the Mask, so I have to buy them on eBay. That is unless of course I can find somebody that flies big birds, so he can pick me up some in Japan.

You do keep the biggest and baddest CNBG for breeders. I think Mark was referencing fish orders.

EDIT by me: Ok, Tracy I get what you were asking. I'm removing 7" to 9" CNBG because they're kind of a slot size here. To big for the forage I need, but not my largest CNBG, and those are the ones I'm trying to push. Fish food's expensive.