Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction Newbie from IL

Hello,

I have been reading and lurking for about a month now and thought I would say hi. I am having my first pond built this coming March. It will be somewhere between 3/4-1 acre in size.

I have learned a tremendous amount about ponds and what it takes to make them successful. I want to say thank you for all the valuable information that is shared on this forum.

I will definitely speak with my builder regarding construction methods and I've already begun making fish habitat out of old pallets I have in my barn. I actually have an old satellite dish in my pasture i'm thinking of cutting down and using as habitat.

I've read a lot about what to stock and I am slightly confused on what I should do. My plan is to stock FHM asap and begin to grow some forage. Depending on how fast it fills, I figured my first stocking would not be until fall of 2017 for other fish.

I like the idea of YP, RES, LMB, HSB, and HBG. What species should go in after the FHM?

Any input is greatly appreciated.

Do you care to share which part of which state you are in in the midwest? EDIT: I just see by the title you are somewhere in IL. North or south probably makes a difference. What latitude are you near?

latitude also determines growing season and helps us help you about any winter kill issues under ice.

Also HSB are not legal in all midwest states. Ditto for tilapia which may be a good supplemental forage for you if you have a goal of trophy LMB, but not allowed in all states.

Congrats on getting the new pond. You're definitely right on establishing the FHM first. I also wouldn't hesitate to stock some RES and HBG at the same time. The longer you can wait to add predators, the better off you'll be. I'd wait at least a year. You'll see some great growth from your predators when you do add them. Those FHM won't last long though. You will need additional forage somewhere down the road as you'll get limited reproduction from the RES and HBG. I went with GSH. They're kind of hard to source though in my area. The same is true with YP.

FHM and RES can go in together. RES do not create very many forage fish and generally the RES numbers significantly decrease in later years (4-8) so having or allowing them get a head start is very beneficial to their long term presence in your pond. Do NOT stock HBG before the predators. You want offspring from HBG to be always in low to very low numbers due to their tendency to genetically degrade with each generation that results in mixed sunfish genetics of individuals that often lack fast growth. The LMB and HSB will be aggressive predators.

The forage of YP, RES & HBG will produce limited numbers of small individuals (compared to BG) that will result in reduced growth rates of the LMB-HSB. To help compensate somewhat for this slower growth settle only for pellet trained LMB (larger stockers of 5"-7" are better-best) since this size will more readily keep eating pellets after they are stocked. It is a eating habit thing. These pellet eating bass will always consume some fish. HSB are all ALWAYS pellet trained from the large fry stage.

Be aware that the LMB-HSB will prefer to eat or target the YP compared to the other sunfishes due to body shape of the perch which is slender - fusiform. IMO opinion to initially compensate for this stock higher numbers of YP who will later struggle to maintain an abundant population due to heavy predation of smaller individuals. In post years you may need to add stock large sized perch (7"-9") to maintain their presence in the pond.

Thanks for the great info. Cayoncreek: I'm near Western Illinois University 40.4592° N, 90.6718° W. It gets fairly cold during the winter, but it can be in the single digits one week and in the 40 the next. I had no idea HSB were not allowed in some states.

What fish would you guys recommend for a new pond owner in my location. I wasn't planning on pellet feeding and I'm not opposed to going the traditional route of BG, LMB, and CC. It just seemed more exciting to do something different. I would rather have a healthy pond with great fishing then a non traditional pond with average fishing.

I do plan on putting up a windmill for aeration in the next couple years after the pond is built.

Brook Wilson and Bill Cody: I will definitely do the RES with the FHM. I was thinking 4-5 pounds of FHM; how many RES should I initially stock? Sorry for the late reply, I've been out for the last few days and just got back.

I'm super excited about this project and appreciate any info shared. I'm also investigating my options for any financial assistance the state will provide for creating habitat.

Hey 5444 welcome to PBF from another Illini. I am located 100+ miles or so to the North of you near Rockford.

FWIW Illinois DNR would recommend LMB, BG, CC and RES for your location. IMO regardless of what you stock, you will need to harvest some fish. I hope that is in your plan. Once CC reach 3 pounds or so they can become apex predators and dominate. The CC would also need to be ladder stocked as you harvest them as they probably will not successfully reproduce in a pond your size. Do you like to eat CC?

IMO I think a key is that you do not want to pellet feed. Perfectly ok but you need to stock accordingly. You need more forage in your plan like BG instead of HBG. BTW HSB and HBG are legal in Illinois.

As FHM are slow swimmers they are extremely vulnerable to predation and will disappear in 1 to 3 years where significant predators are present. Traditionally, they are a starter forage and with no established vegetation for them to hide in, they stand little to no chance of sustaining a population. Not saying you should not stock them as they are great fish to start your young predator stockers on the road to success. Just don't expect them to be there 5 years down the road.

Your goals are in line with mine. Just good fishing. I see no reason why you can't go with the Illinois DNR recommendation if that is in line with your goals and still add some bonus catch fish like a FEW HSB or HBG.

Just a couple of thoughts. Are you going to be swimming in your pond? My idea of swimming is floating around with an adult beverage in hand. Definitely a way to cool off in the summer. If so, I might leave the BG, or HBG out. Ours are like phirana. Not bad if you are actually swimming, but if you stop..
Also, we stocked YP as our primary "grandkids catching" fish. I could not be more pleased with them. They've grown very fast, and are delicious.
We did stock the FHM the year before and had so many that the pond looked like a FHM hatchery by the time we stocked everything else.
My pond is about even with Springfield IL in terms of a northern climate.

Bill D and SetterGuy, thanks for your input. I do plan to harvest some fish and I remember reading about CC eating everything when big enough. I looked in the acronym section and did not see what FEW was.
I do plan on swimming in the pond; how annoying are the BG when swimming?

Sorry, I can understand your confusion with all the acronyms. I capitalized the word, FEW, to emphasize I thought that just a few HSB and HBG would be ok in a LMB, BG, CC and RES pond.

Lets just say, for safety sake, wear a T shirt.

I don't think they are too bad. Bill Cody has mentioned before about turning off the feeder for a while and making the preaditors do their job helped. So that indicates to me how many BG there are (how hungry maybe) and how much predators force them to stay in cover makes a difference.

If you are standing in a bed of males guarding nests all bets are off.

5444, welcome to Pond Boss. Pay a lot of attention to what these guys are saying about your forage base and the predator/prey balance.
On a personal basis, I would probably start with about 15 to 20 pounds of fatheads.

But then, a lot of this stuff is regional and I don't generally comment or give advice about Northern ponds.

15-20 lbs of FHM is a good start for most any fishery. They are easy snacks so more will not cause any damage and will ultimately last longer. As far as fish species choices. Always remember this,,,, once you add LMB & BG you will always have them and basically there is no turning back unless you renovate the entire pond. Initial fisheries using fish such as HSB, YP, SMB, WE, RES and to a certain extent HBG can always be pretty easily adjusted to basically one dominated by BG-LMB pond just by later adding these two species. BG-LMB reproduction is prolific and soon over-powers those other fishes. It does not work the other way around by 1st adding BG-LMB.

It is my understanding that Green Sunfish are the nipple nippers, not Bluegill or Red Ear Sunfish. I would assume that Hybred Bluegill would nip also.

BG definitely nibble, but its been no big deal for my family. Very little blood:)

Pictures of LMB in attack mode for the T shirt art...

Bill D that's too funny. I just assumed it was a fish since it was capitalized. Dave thanks for the welcome and Wow, 15-20 pounds of FHM. I was thinking 5# and 100-150 RES and let nature run her course since there would not be any predators for a while.

Bill C, would I be able to include YP with the initial stocking? Or just stick with FHM and RES since the YP would eventually put a dent on the FHM.

Also, I cut down a really old satellite dish today and was thinking about using it for habitat. Whats everyones thoughts on using it? Its metal and at least 8' wide.

Initial 5 lbs of FHM in 0.7-1 ac is very adequate if spawn habitat is available and predators will be added later in the fall or next spring. YP at 3"-4" or mixed with some 4"-7" will do really well if the YP are pellet trained. FHM utilizing pellets will attract YP to the feeding area. RES & YP will forage on the invertebrates and a portion of the fry of FHM until they are 0.7-1". YP will not feed heavily on small FHM(1"-1.7") until the YP are 7"-9" long.

If you stock 4"-6" YP in spring with FHM expect them to be 6"-9" by 1 yr in the pond when they will spawn probably with many of the RES; both not at the same time. YP at 50F and RES at 70F,

Pretty cool. I would consider filling it with pea gravel as a spawning bed. Another idea is filling it with a layer of sand/gravel and then a boulder pile on top for crawfish and small fish habitat. I think the dish would help a lot in keeping either a bed or boulder pile from sinking into the bottom so quickly.

Bill C, how much water needs to be in the pond to sustain FHM? How much water needs to be in pond to sustain FHM and RES?

Bill D, so you envision the dish laying on bottom with the triangular rods of the dish pointing up? Or should I flip it the other way so the entire dish is hovering over the bottom and the triangular rods are holding up the dish? I'm not sure the latter will work, but it would provide for a lot of cover.

Thanks for everyone's input.

I was thinking laying the dish in the bottom of the pond like a big bowl. I would remove the rods if I was using the dish as a spawning bed.

I would probably use it under a large rip-rap/rock pile to keep it from settling into the pond bottom.

Bill D, would I want to put sand or pea gravel inside the dish then?

I spoke with the builder the other day and he said he would be out to laser level and flag the property as soon as it warms up.

Is there any specific questions I should ask him other than how he plans to compact the ground?

Ask him to assure that it is properly cored.

Dave, I'm not familiar with the term cored. Will you explain?

From Mike Otto's book "Just Add Water" on building dams.

Also called a "keyway" a trench dug below ground level through layers of porous soils to a solid substrate and then backfilled with compacted soils to create a solid, waterproof, underground structure along the middle of the dam. There are illustrations in the book.

My addition: It should be compacted with a sheepsfoot roller in 6 to 12 inch lifts.

Buy Mikes book from the Pond Boss website. It will save you much more than the cost and help you sleep nights.

If the pond builder doesn't know these things, he's just a dozer driver.

Good to know, thank you Dave.