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#459731 - 11/30/16 09:31 AM Source for PK shrimp and LCS
Trooper4985 Offline


Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 27
Loc: NY
Forage pond is finally done and almost to the first fill stage. I am looking for a source for PK shrimp and Lake Chubsuckers. There will be no predators in the pond and the only vegetation in the pond MIGHT be corkscrew Val.

I will drive to pick stuff up if shipping is not available or practical for the cost.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

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#459762 - 11/30/16 02:51 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1861
Loc: West Michigan

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#459764 - 11/30/16 03:53 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: canyoncreek]
Trooper4985 Offline


Registered: 02/20/12
Posts: 27
Loc: NY
Thanks. Forgot about Zimmermans. Never transferred my favorites from IE to Chrome.

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#459802 - 12/01/16 07:26 AM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
If there has been any progress on sourcing PK shrimp. please share.

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#459939 - 12/03/16 12:38 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Thank you - Do you have an email for them?

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#459974 - 12/04/16 01:09 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7882
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I strongly suspect this person was sourcing them via Fattig...
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#459975 - 12/04/16 02:37 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I am guessing that the business opportunity is too small to interest most, especially with the likely bureaucracy involved. This is too bad since it now appears to be far less common than it was originally in the wild, but maybe I am mistaken.

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#460362 - 12/15/16 06:18 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Did you verify if the supplier actually has the shrimp and that they are the species being claimed?

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#460366 - 12/15/16 07:14 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: RAH]
ryjohn Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 20
Loc: Monroe, Louisiana
They are me, so yes. Pk is the only species native or naturalized in this area

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#460404 - 12/16/16 09:22 AM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Perhaps posting a high res photo would help some of the experts here make a positive ID?

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#460410 - 12/16/16 10:13 AM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12471
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Those look a lot like PK shrimp that I am familiar with. Chances are very high they are PK shrimp. It is very doubtful that those pictured and surviving in his winter chilly pond are the more tropical species sold in pet shops. We have to assume they have a gene pool tolerant of northern winters. Remember one has to have correct habitat for them to thrive in a sportfish pond. Correct habitat means - weedy, that provides lots of cover as a refuge from predation by mostly panfish.
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#460412 - 12/16/16 10:30 AM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Thanks Bill - No ice yet on small ground-water fed pond!


Edited by RAH (12/18/16 04:53 AM)

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#460495 - 12/17/16 04:11 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12471
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
More notes about PK shrimp (Palaemonetes kadiakensis, also P.kadiakensis). There are 3 species of grass shrimp that superficially look like PK: P.pugio(41-100F), P.vulgaris & P.paludosus (41F-95F). Reported lethal temperature range for the species is in ( ). There is probably a good reason that these other 3 species have not expanded their distribution range into the North Central US and the reason could be due cold tolerence. I could not find the lower lethal temperature for PK. Close examination of specific body structures separate these 4 species.

Grass shrimp are reported to often retreat to the sediment zone or area during winter. Often this is probably due to lack of small leafy plant habitat during winter. This winter behavior could make them very vulnerable to panfish predation especially if the pond has an abundance of panfish. Water temperature of the sediment zone can be 40-41F depending on various pond conditions. My experience with PK shrimp is they will live in a winter aerated pond where the majority of the water column temperature can be 36F-39F. The less the pond is aerated during winter the closer the water column temperature will be to 39F. Mississippi Rv water temperature during Jan or Feb could be 33-34F for the first study below.

Advanced reading:
Upper Mississippi Study - Ohio Shrimp and PK shrimp.
http://www.umesc.usgs.gov/field_stations/fs5/staff/amn_shrimp.pdf
P.pugio
http://www.amnh.org/learn-teach/young-na...aemonetes-pugio


Edited by Bill Cody (12/17/16 04:40 PM)
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#460517 - 12/17/16 09:45 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: ryjohn]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7882
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally Posted By: ryjohn
I made a post here yesterday regarding where Pk shrimp could be purchased and at first did not understand why it was deleted. Reading the forum rules did not seem to provide an explanation, but I have found other posts by moderators since then that seem to indicate that only "registered vendors" can be promoted. So it is possible many potential sources have been posted to these type threads over the years have been deleted because they are not sponsors of the magazine or forum.


Hi Ryjohn:

Welcome to the forum. Your hunch is correct - only registered advertisers are allowed to market on the forum. Approved and registered advertisers help allow the Pond Boss forum to exist free to all who need help. As an approved advertiser and forum volunteer myself, I feel those rules are important to follow. If you are interested in marketing please contact the Pond Boss HQ and they can walk you through the process. Until that's occurred I'd appreciate the marketing, even indirectly or latent, to cease so further action isn't warranted. Your knowledge is important and welcome here, but there's a right way to do things. Thanks!

_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#460520 - 12/17/16 09:50 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Bill Cody]
ryjohn Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 20
Loc: Monroe, Louisiana
Interesting articles. P. vulgaris is mentioned there as not tolerating low salinity, and P. pugio is listed as tolerating a wide range of salinities. That said, I have a hard time believing the P. vulgaris and P. pugio species that live in the Chesapeake Bay are the same ones native (or established) to land-locked bodies of (extremly soft) surface water in 32 miles from the Arkansas border.

A good test seemingly would be placing them in and insulated minnow bucket in a refrigerator set below 41, and slowly letting it reduce the temperature of the water of Pk shrimp. I am curious about their behavior. On multiple occasions I've had mine stay viable that way for a week+ before (for bait), and then once this past summer they seemed to not take it as well (died or laid dormant on their sides). It may be the time of the year and acclimation is important, or that the water was chilled too quickly (may not have used an insulated bucket). Stocking density or oxygen content was not controlled so that may have played a part as well. For that matter I have not verified the refrigerator temperature either...

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#460521 - 12/17/16 09:51 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7882
Loc: Lincoln, NE
FYI driving native PK Shrimp from LA to MI is likely violating several state regulations without importation permits from all states. Interstate fish transfer/sales is strictly regulated and every state varies...they likely have eyes on this forum, too.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#460522 - 12/17/16 09:59 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: teehjaeh57]
ryjohn Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 20
Loc: Monroe, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Originally Posted By: ryjohn
I made a post here yesterday regarding where Pk shrimp could be purchased and at first did not understand why it was deleted. Reading the forum rules did not seem to provide an explanation, but I have found other posts by moderators since then that seem to indicate that only "registered vendors" can be promoted. So it is possible many potential sources have been posted to these type threads over the years have been deleted because they are not sponsors of the magazine or forum.


Hi Ryjohn:

Welcome to the forum. Your hunch is correct - only registered advertisers are allowed to market on the forum. Approved and registered advertisers help allow the Pond Boss forum to exist for free. If you are interested in marketing please contact the Pond Boss HQ and they can walk you through the process. Thanks!



The problem is there is such a small market for some pond products that it impossible to have any sort of advertising budget. I am not really in business anything beyond trying to defray the costs of my own pond hobby... as in a 4-order per year type goal


Edited by ryjohn (12/17/16 10:36 PM)

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#460525 - 12/17/16 10:05 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: teehjaeh57]
ryjohn Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 20
Loc: Monroe, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
FYI driving native PK Shrimp from LA to MI is likely violating several state regulations without importation permits from all states. Interstate fish transfer/sales is strictly regulated and every state varies...they likely have eyes on this forum, too.


No doubt you are right. "In commerce" is the trigger for many such laws (unless noxious or protected species) whereas free sharing is much more loosely regulated in many cases. Louisiana is a surprisingly open state but that goes out the window when you cross state lines. A simple fishing license even allows you to sell a certain limit of reptiles and amphibians into the pet trade each day, if I read correctly



Edited by teehjaeh57 (12/18/16 01:17 AM)
Edit Reason: Sorry cannot post political or religious sentiments

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#460528 - 12/18/16 06:09 AM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13565
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Ryjohn, I figure I can either have a Corvette, a couple of women on the side or the ponds. The ponds are only slightly less expensive.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#460612 - 12/19/16 12:04 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Dave Davidson1]
ryjohn Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 20
Loc: Monroe, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Ryjohn, I figure I can either have a Corvette, a couple of women on the side or the ponds. The ponds are only slightly less expensive.


Yeah... am working on paying off my house now on the Dave Ramsey plan, and with my wife buying in to go back to work until that is done, she wouldn't appreciate spending on any of those three!

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#460616 - 12/19/16 12:29 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Dave Davidson1]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5177
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Ryjohn, I figure I can either have a Corvette, a couple of women on the side or the ponds. The ponds are only slightly less expensive.


I would like to see the accounting numbers on that. I'm not sure you figured right.
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John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

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#460648 - 12/20/16 06:24 AM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13565
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
BTW, the first 2 scenarios include legal fees.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#460678 - 12/20/16 12:19 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
Bill Cody Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12471
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
ryjohn - Good idea of checking the lower limit temperature of PK shrimp by putting them in the refrigerator or iced water and monitoring the correct temperature. I will try that for my PK shrimp next year. My strain of PK shrimp came from Lake Erie marshland. The northern population may have developed an adaptation to cooler winter waters than those shrimp in the southern states?


Edited by Bill Cody (12/20/16 12:20 PM)
_________________________
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management

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#460679 - 12/20/16 12:28 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Trooper4985]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4229
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Bill - Do you think that hard groundwater might be a problem for the PK shrimp? I think the pH is about 7.5

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#460687 - 12/20/16 12:55 PM Re: Source for PK shrimp and LCS [Re: Bill Cody]
ryjohn Offline


Registered: 04/27/15
Posts: 20
Loc: Monroe, Louisiana
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
ryjohn - Good idea of checking the lower limit temperature of PK shrimp by putting them in the refrigerator or iced water and monitoring the correct temperature. I will try that for my PK shrimp next year. My strain of PK shrimp came from Lake Erie marshland. The northern population may have developed an adaptation to cooler winter waters than those shrimp in the southern states?


I'm curious what kind of catch density you had working those marshes. I use a finer mesh long-handled landing net here and best passes under the best weed matts here yield between 50 and 100 per swipe of the net. Average is probably more like 15-25 during Spring and early summer... it gets alot tougher this time of year, though.


Edited by ryjohn (12/20/16 12:56 PM)

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