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#459479 - 11/23/16 05:50 PM Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border?
Slurp Offline


Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 20
Loc: Iowa
After much research I have decided to stock Tilapia next spring. Problem I'm having is finding a source locally. Best option I've found so far is to buy online and have them shipped which is very expensive! Seems like the prices can be all over the place. The best I've found so far was $100 for a 100 1" fingerlings delivered. I have the room in my basement and have thought about ordering these around January and growing them out to a larger size before releasing in the spring. Right now that seems like my best option unless I can find somewhere close by?


Edited by Slurp (11/23/16 05:51 PM)

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#459490 - 11/24/16 12:59 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
esshup Offline
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Talk to Rainman here on the forum.
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#459507 - 11/24/16 10:12 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Rainman is the man for stocker size fish.

There is a place that sells Tilipia north of Kansas City a ways but only the fingerlings. You can do a google search and find them. There are actually a couple different companies but I question if the fish don't come from the same source. One is more of a retail outlet and sells on Ebay and such and the other looks more like a wholesale (with prices accordingly) outlet. Been a year and a half since I bought any from them though. (Edit: I looked for the wholesale one and could not find it).

Was kind of a strange deal. Sent the wife and daughter after the fish (with their obligatory shopping stop in KC) and they met a kid at a gas station for the fish. Makes me think they do not have a retail store and deal mostly on line.

Do a search for White Brook Tilipia farm. I did the hatchery choice and got mostly blue and some white. I was just experimenting. Putting in fingerlings in the early summer gets harvest-able size by fall but little to no algae control because they really just get big enough to reproduce about the end of the season. For algae control a guy needs to see someone like Rainman or raise them over the winter to breeding size for spring/ early summer introduction to the pond.


Edited by snrub (11/24/16 10:32 AM)
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#459511 - 11/24/16 10:22 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Slurp Offline


Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 20
Loc: Iowa
I did look at rainmans website and that was one option I was considering.

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#459513 - 11/24/16 10:34 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
That is the best one for known quality fish from a guy that knows Tilapia. The fingerlings I got seemed to be ok too, but I would have sure got them from Rainman had it been feasible. I was just too far away and too small of an order to be viable.
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#459530 - 11/24/16 09:56 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Rainman Offline
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Slurp, Tilapia are not legal to stock in Iowa without a "Special Permit". Contact Alan Johnson with Iowa DNR and discuss with him your situation. 2 years ago, Iowa denied a species, then after the owner agreed to keep the DNR informed on things, they approved the stocking and special permit. Alan Johnson is a reasonable man!
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#459531 - 11/24/16 09:59 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Rainman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Slurp
After much research I have decided to stock Tilapia next spring. Problem I'm having is finding a source locally. Best option I've found so far is to buy online and have them shipped which is very expensive! Seems like the prices can be all over the place. The best I've found so far was $100 for a 100 1" fingerlings delivered. I have the room in my basement and have thought about ordering these around January and growing them out to a larger size before releasing in the spring. Right now that seems like my best option unless I can find somewhere close by?


Prices vary because most fish are not what is claimed...most are mutt hybrids, and overnight shipping is expensive, period.

$100 is dirt cheap.
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#459557 - 11/25/16 05:27 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Slurp Offline


Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 20
Loc: Iowa
I am aware of the permit needed. Doesn't really make sense to me with a fish that will die off each winter since there's no chance of them taking over a BOW. However if my pond could be used to help support the Iowa DNR and there decision towards Tilapia in our ponds i would be all for that. Tilapia farming is becoming a very ligitamate business in the state it sounds like. I do believe (not certain) it is legal in an aquarium? I know tilapia use in aquaculture is very popular which is what gave me the idea to grow them out in my basement. I already grow tomatoes and peppers hydroponically over the winter as a hobby so it would be very easy for me to incorporate them into that. Yes $100 is cheap compared to other prices I have seen. I won't step on anyone's toes, others can do there own research, but I feel that this seller is selling a quality of fish that is perfectly acceptable for my intended use.

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#459672 - 11/29/16 01:58 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
BradVV Offline


Registered: 05/04/13
Posts: 25
Loc: Iowa, United States
Slurp, let me know if you obtain the permit from the Iowa DNR. I live in Iowa too, and I would like to put some Tilapia in my pond also to help control the fila algae and also provide "food" for my predator fish.

I have bought fish from Rainman before and it worked out great. Maybe we can work together on a Tilapia shipment to Iowa this upcoming late spring from Rainman. I'm also kicking around the idea of adding some paddlefish to help with my pond's water quality. Got that idea from a recent article in the PondBoss magazine.

Brad

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#459791 - 12/01/16 12:06 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: BradVV]
Slurp Offline


Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 20
Loc: Iowa
I have contacted a guy I met in the DNR to see what I can find out. Unfortunately his area is in the county my pond is located at and they seem to only be concerned with the nearest lake which is Rathbun lake. Glad to hear you had good results dealing with rainman. Where about are you located? Would definitely be interested in getting together on a shipment! PM me if you're serious. I've also been interested in a couple paddlefish, I can remember catching them out of the river when I was younger.

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#459868 - 12/01/16 10:24 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Rainman]
Slurp Offline


Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 20
Loc: Iowa
Rainman I contacted Alan Johnson the other day. He says he has never approved a permit for Tilapia in Iowa. He said he has only had one other request for tilapia and that was denied. He did however seem very receptive to the idea and wanted more information regarding the benefits of tilapia. I offered to make my pond a test bed for any research they might want to do. I am going to start another thread asking for information from others. Please take the time to check it, who knows there could be some more business coming your way!

Anyone from Iowa that would be interested in putting tilapia in your pond please contact Alan at alan.johnson@dnr.iowa.gov and express your interest. The more we bug him the more likely it is to happen! As mentioned he is very receptive to the idea and will get back to you VERY quickly.


Edited by Slurp (12/01/16 10:25 PM)

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#459875 - 12/02/16 12:02 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Rainman Offline
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I sent you a private message and would be willing to also provide tilapia to Iowa DNR for demonstration uses if they'd like also.
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#459876 - 12/02/16 12:03 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Rainman Offline
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Posts: 6976
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Brad, I am partnering with a man here that raises paddlefish
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#460297 - 12/13/16 08:22 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Slurp Offline


Registered: 10/04/16
Posts: 20
Loc: Iowa
I would be interested in a couple paddlefish as well. PM me details on what it would take to get some

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#460299 - 12/13/16 08:50 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW My understanding is paddlefish feed primarily on large amounts of zooplankton. I would be careful stocking them in a smaller BOW. The reduction in zooplankton at the bottom of the food chain might negatively impact your other zooplankton dependent fish/spawn and, subsequently, the fish that feed on them....

Once they are in there, how do you get them out if you want to? Snag or shoot?



Edited by Bill D. (12/14/16 07:48 AM)
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#460313 - 12/14/16 01:54 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
DrLuke Offline


Registered: 06/04/15
Posts: 353
Loc: Grinnell, IA
I have been tilting at this same windmill since last summer. I did (again) call my local fisheries Biologist for the Iowa DNR, Paul Sleeper, on Nov 29th. I didn't reach him (again) but did have a nice long chat with one of his assistants. We reviewed the whole tilapia issue in Iowa (as nicely outlined above). I also volunteered my pond as a 'test site' for tilapia use on FA control in Iowa. My pond's outflow is to grass strip between two huge fields and runs for almost two miles before (potentially) running off into a small creek. Set aside the fact it was -1 degrees Fahrenheit last night and my pond has 4 inches of ice on it already! BUT, I will also shoot an email to Alan Johnson as noted above. And I will add my name to the list of tilapia 'wanting' folk from Iowa...
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#460323 - 12/15/16 02:08 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Originally I thought Paddlefish filtered phytoplanton, however, according to a little research I just performed, Paddlefish instead filter zooplankton as primary forage. So what's their role in a pond, since zooplankton is important forage for many YOY species? I don't see increasing competition for zooplankton as desirable, especially considering Zooplankton utilize phytoplankton as forage helping control blooms. Something that helps manage phytoplankton blooms certainly would be of interest to me...just not sure that Paddlefish fit that niche?
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#460325 - 12/15/16 08:12 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: teehjaeh57]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Interesting thoughts TJ. Thanks for that info.
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#460342 - 12/15/16 01:10 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7892
Loc: Lincoln, NE
It was news to me...I thought they were planktonic algae filter feeders, apparently not. Unless I have something wrong, which I often do, seems Paddlefish would help increase phytoplankton blooms by reducing zooplankton...one of the primary foragers of plankton?
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#460376 - 12/15/16 08:57 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: teehjaeh57]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
...Zooplankton utilize phytoplankton as forage helping control blooms. Something that helps manage phytoplankton blooms certainly would be of interest ...


Could improving zooplankton habitat, such as providing appropriate preferred vegetation, potentially increase zooplankton colony size and possibly result in a decrease in phytoplankton? Do ponds with substantial vegetation potentially have more robust zooplankton colonies and typically have less issues with phytoplankton blooms?


Edited by Bill D. (12/15/16 09:25 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#460391 - 12/16/16 05:24 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
TJ, how do/can they do that? Seems to me that both zoo and phyto would be ingested. But then, I know zero about paddlefish.
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#460415 - 12/16/16 11:47 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
DrLuke Offline


Registered: 06/04/15
Posts: 353
Loc: Grinnell, IA
In doing some searching for additional information on tilapia, I came across this new article. Doesn't help with the tilapia as FA control issue, but does show another use of tilapia...
https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/2395670/...-new-treatment/
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#460473 - 12/17/16 08:20 AM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13600
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
That's interesting Doc.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#460503 - 12/17/16 05:31 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Bill Cody Offline
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1. If Zooplankton utilize phytoplankton as forage helping control blooms, could improving zooplankton habitat, such as providing appropriate preferred vegetation, potentially increase zooplankton colony size and possibly result in a decrease in phytoplankton? YES IN THEORY ALTHOUGH THEORIES ARE NOT ALWAYS ABSOLUTE ESPECIALLY IN NATURE. THUS - IT ALL DEPENDS
YES THIS ACTUALLY HAPPENS IN MANY WATER BODIES WHERE THE WATER IS NOTICABLY CLEAR (VIS 5-20FT) AND USUALLY SUBMERGED LITTORAL PLANTS FLOURISH. Submerged plants will compete to often reduce phytoplankton and create clear water. The more the higher plant competition generally means there are fewer phytoplankton and clearer the water.
FIRST THING TO REMEMBER IS ZOOPLANKTON IS COMPOSED OF PROTOZOA, ROTIFERS AND CRUSTACEA. MOST THINK IT AS PRIMARILY CRUSTACEA SINCE THEY ARE THE LARGEST INDIVIDUALS.

THEY WILL ONLY HELP CONTROL ALGAL CELLS OF BLOOMS IF THE ALGAE BLOOM CELLS ARE EDIBLE (CONSUMABLE) BY THE ZOOPLANKTON SPECIES. THE MANY PHYTOPLANKTON SPECIES HAVE A VERY WIDE RANGE OF CELL SIZES (0.3MICROMETER TO 1000UM OR MORE). NUMEROUS FACTORS OR THINGS INFLUENCE ZOOPLANKTON DENSITY - ONE IS GOOD HABITAT & THE BIG 1ST OR 2ND INFLUENCE IS TYPE OF PREDATOR AND WHAT IT IS ABLE TO EAT. ONE OF THE BIG CONTROLS OF ZOOPLANKTON DENSITY IS PROPER FOOD PARTICLE SIZE. PONDS WITH NO FISH PREDATORS OR WITH PREDATORS HAVING LIMITED ZOO PREDATION ABILITY USUALLY HAVE THE LARGEST ZOO SPECIES. AS THE ZOOPREDATOR FILTERING EFFICIENCY & INDIVIDUAL DENSITY INCREASES ZOO COMMUNITY TENDS TO have more SMALLER individuals.
https://www.casqa.org/asca/dynamic-internal-controls-eutrophication-lake-elsinore-role-%E2%80%98bottom-%E2%80%99-and-%E2%80%98top-down%E2%80%99-limitation

Top Down vs Bottom Up management - Biomanipulation
http://www.lmvp.org/Waterline/fall2005/topdown3.htm


2. Do ponds with substantial vegetation potentially have more robust zooplankton colonies and typically have less issues with phytoplankton blooms? GENERALLY YES, NOT ALWAYS. DENSE BEDS OF SUBMERGED VEGETATION GIVE THE LITTORAL ZOOPLANKTON LOTS OF REFUGE; PELAGIC ZOOPLANKTON NOT SO MUCH OF THE PLANT REFUGE IS UTILIZED. REMEMBER, ALGAE SPECIES CREATING A BLOOM IS OFTEN A MONO-SPECIES AND OFTEN A LARGE CELL SPECIES. WELL BALANCED WATER BODIES RARELY HAVE NUISANCE BLOOMS. MANY OF THE NUISANCE BLOOMS ARE DOMINATED BY INEDIBLE ALGAE SPECIES. THIS ADAPTATION ALLOWS THE ALGAE TO FLOURISH DESPITE WHAT ZOO SPECIES ARE PRESENT. Nutrients are usually driving the phytoplankton composition and density. Reread the Biomanagement in link above.


Edited by Bill Cody (12/17/16 05:43 PM)
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#460509 - 12/17/16 06:39 PM Re: Tilapia source near Iowa Missouri border? [Re: Slurp]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks Bill! Extremely interesting topic to me. Even learned a new term, zooplanktivores, from your link. I have a whole new appreciation for the little guys at the bottom of the food chain and how seemingly small changes by a pondmeister can have huge impacts on overall pond balance. I think I will be more thoughtful before I reach for a herbicide or introduce a new fish species in the future.
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