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#496424 - 09/15/18 09:45 PM Re: SMB really hitting feed [Re: snrub]
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 946
Loc: SC Nebraska
Awesome update
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#496426 - 09/15/18 10:39 PM Re: SMB really hitting feed [Re: snrub]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 317
Loc: southwest Colorado
snrub, thanks for the continued updates. Pics are wonderful.
I'm right with you on the value of visiting the pond at all times of the day, in different lighting.
As you do, I hand feed. Morning and evening feeding responses are most consistent, but mid-day sometimes brings up fish I don't normally get to see.
Sorry I can't drive over to your farm next week. I'm traveling to the Seattle area to join in the wedding festivities of a young gal I've known, fished, and hunted with since she was born. I missed both her high school and college graduations, so I'd better show up for her wedding!

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#496427 - 09/15/18 11:13 PM Re: SMB really hitting feed [Re: 4CornersPuddle]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
Thanks. Enjoy the wedding.

Well you know where I am at now so if you are out this way some time, give me a shout. We will have a private PBF get together.
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#496430 - 09/15/18 11:50 PM Re: SMB really hitting feed [Re: snrub]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 317
Loc: southwest Colorado
You got it my friend!

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#496446 - 09/16/18 02:47 PM weed identification [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
Should I keep it or pull it out? That is the question.

I noticed this pond weed a while back but did not think too much about it till the discussion about curly leaf pond weed and how it is an invasive. Got me worried so I pulled some out and took pictures. It is not curly leaf pond weed (or at least it does not look like the pictures posted) but I am not sure what it is.

There is maybe a dozen "clumps" of it around this one year old pond. Can't recall I have seen it in any of my other ponds so I assume birds or other animals brought it in. It would be fairly easy at this stage to take a rake and get most of the clumps pulled out. Thing of it is, this pond could really use some cover as right now all I have is rock piles and some water primrose. But I do not want it if it is going to be a management nightmare down the road a ways.

So I would like an ID as well as opinions on what if anything I should do with it. Probably could never get it all out but an hours work would get 90% or more at this stage.

Leave it or take it out?


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20180916_111027.jpg (125 downloads)
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20180916_111156.jpg (98 downloads)
20180916_111258.jpg (168 downloads)
20180916_111433.jpg (92 downloads)
20180916_111446.jpg (161 downloads)
20180916_111602.jpg (176 downloads)
20180916_111536.jpg (131 downloads)

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#496448 - 09/16/18 02:50 PM Re: weed identification [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas


Edited by snrub (09/16/18 02:58 PM)
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#496458 - 09/16/18 10:42 PM Re: weed identification [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
An old thread on Sago. If that is what it is.

Old thread on Sago pond weed

The more I think about it, I believe this is the same weed that is in my small seasonal creek. I think I posted pictures of it asking what it was three or four years ago. Have not seen it in any of my other ponds though. Only this one.
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#496490 - 09/17/18 03:21 PM Re: weed identification [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
Bump.

Any opinions on if this (post above) is sago pond weed? And any advice to keep or get rid of it?
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#496493 - 09/17/18 09:05 PM Re: weed identification [Re: snrub]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 13036
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
I think this is one of the several species of narrow leaf pondweeds Potomogeton species.
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#496497 - 09/17/18 10:28 PM Re: weed identification [Re: Bill Cody]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
Thanks Bill. How do you rate them as far as causing problems in a pond? If it will stay at the level it currently is or even gets twice to three times as much it appears to be very good cover for small fish.

The main thing I do not want is something that takes over the pond and makes fishing impossible.
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#496796 - 09/24/18 11:05 AM Re: weed identification [Re: Bill Cody]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
Bill at the PBF get together at my place Bob Lusk ID'd it and called it Bushy Pondweed, which if I recall what he said correctly is one of the Potomogeton species as you said. Here is a picture he took as the group was around looking at it and discussing it.

We looked at a couple different bunches and Bob explained the difference in that one had a covering of FA and was not doing very good and the other was healthy. He explained how the FA and Bushy pond weed were competing for the nutrients in the pond and if I remove one the other would likely flourish and might become a problem.

So I decided leave it in to compete with the FA. It looks like decent cover for tiny fish. He said if it became a problem it would not get into very deep water and I could spot treat it along the bank to gain fishing access.

Bushy pond weed


Attachments
180924_081302_12.jpg (182 downloads)
Description: bushy pond weed




Edited by snrub (09/24/18 11:23 AM)
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#496923 - 09/27/18 11:26 PM RES pond update [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
An update on how this pond is going. The RES situation has not been particularly encouraging. I have some but they are not overly large. The pond is not very fertile so they may just be growing slow because of lack of food. Many of the SMB are feeding on pellets and the ones that are on feed are doing very well. But likely very few RES are feeding on pellets so they have to depend on natural forage. The FHM are long gone from what I can observe or trap so the RES are down to bugs and snails.

Also I have made some mistakes on RES identification because I have ended up with some hybrids. Either I have transferred some hybrids from my forage pond (the most likely) or the purchased RES fingerlings had some hybrids in them. Now that I have SMB in good numbers in the pond I am not terribly worried about the hybrids. I just remove them as they are caught and move them to my old pond.

Below are pictures of a few of the fish caught from this pond in the last couple days. I have moved quite a few SMB from this pond to my main 3 acre pond.

Bob Lusk helped me with my hybrid identification during my PBF get together. I think I did ok as long as I stuck with 3"+ fish. But later I was transferring some 2" fish from my forage pond to this RES/SMB pond and I think that is where I mis-ID'd the hybrids and moved some of them also.

The hybrids take to the pellets easily so they are fat and sassy. I really like the RESxGSF hybrids. Just not in this pond. mad


Attachments
20180927_180856.jpg (205 downloads)
Description: Largest SMB to date

20180926_180042.jpg (185 downloads)
Description: I really do have RES in this pond

20180926_163654.jpg (189 downloads)
Description: Caught a half dozen this size SMB and moved to the main pond

20180926_162813.jpg (180 downloads)
Description: another SMB

20180926_162707.jpg (131 downloads)
Description: RESxGSF hybrid moved to old pond

20180926_162653.jpg (195 downloads)
Description: another RESxGSF hybrid moved to old pond. I have caught quire a few that look like this all about same size.




Edited by snrub (09/27/18 11:36 PM)
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#496927 - 09/28/18 05:49 AM Re: RES pond update [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2944
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
snrub, all of your smb look really good, I bet they would be at a 100% rw or more. With all your res,bg and gsf I bet they do really well at your place.
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#496928 - 09/28/18 06:06 AM Re: RES pond update [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14124
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Those RES/GSF mutts are neat looking fish.
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#496948 - 09/28/18 11:48 AM Re: RES pond update [Re: Dave Davidson1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
I think so too Dave. I think they are really pretty fish.

And they are much, MUCH easier to catch than RES.

Bob talked like the RESxGSF crosses are mostly male and the reciprocal GSFxRES cross eggs are not very viable (or I could have got those reversed) so along with the SMB predation in this pond I am not really worried too much about any reproduction and if I keep every one I catch they are unlikely to spoil my plans for my RES/SMB pond.

I do transfer them to my old pond a hundred feet away though because I really do like the hybrid.

At my PBF get together a couple guys caught a bunch of my HBG and put them in my holding pen for me. Carolynn and I filleted them the next day. The hybrids, be it HBG or the RESxGSF cross grow fast, fillet out nice and are fun and easy to catch. I really like them a lot.

For purists or trophy hunters they are probably a dirty word. But for a poor angler with a mutt pond, I get along fine with them.


Edited by snrub (09/28/18 11:53 AM)
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#496953 - 09/28/18 01:28 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
ewest Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 20010
Loc: Miss.
Here are the sex ratios (percent male) that Childers got with various hybrid crosses. The male parent is listed first. There is some variation in the numbers from other studies

Redear X Bluegill 97 (3)
Bluegill X Redear 97
Redear X Green 69
Green X Redear 48

Bluegill X Green 97
Green X Bluegill 68 (2)
Redear X Warmouth 55
Bluegill X Warmouth 69 (2)
Green X Warmouth 16
Warmouth X Green 84
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#496968 - 09/28/18 10:39 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: ewest]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
That's interesting. Not that far off from 50-50.
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#497005 - 09/29/18 11:43 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
Couple of RES from this pond. I would assume these are from the 200 two inch fingerlings stocked 5-31-2017, although could have been from other stocking out of my forage pond.

post with summary of RES and other stocking

If these are from those original 200 2" fingerlings, I'm satisfied with the growth considering this pond is not overly fertile.


Attachments
20180929_083441 (600 x 600).jpg (204 downloads)
Description: RES 1

20180929_083719 (600 x 600).jpg (106 downloads)
Description: RES 2


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#497017 - 09/30/18 10:22 AM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
ewest Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 20010
Loc: Miss.
Really nice RES. Large red ear tab edge on one and look at the fins - very RESish.
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#497021 - 09/30/18 11:48 AM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: ewest]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
I was very pleased with those two fish. I have been removing any hybrids I catch or any RES that do not quite look like I want. I hope to have a pond full of ones that look like those two and hope to raise some up to around 11 inches and a couple pounds.

With the SMB in there to keep the recruitment in check, I think I have a shot.

Those two were caught on a curly tail jig while cast and retrieve trying to catch small SMB. They hit it on the move.


Edited by snrub (09/30/18 11:50 AM)
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#497270 - 10/07/18 12:10 AM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
I just do not understand these fingerling SMB that are 3.5" long this time of year. Was it a late spawn? My understanding is SMB only spawn one time a year and that is in the spring. Are they just runts that were spawned this spring and have not grown? I do not think so because they seem to be healthy. I caught 5 tonight just before sunset that all looked like the two pictured below within 5 minutes in the same area. I think they must have been running together. Saw several others chase my bait. I have lots of this size as well as larger YOY.

Also a picture of one of two 13" SMB, likely the size that spawned the small ones. And a 7" RES also caught tonight just before dark.

Edit: The two 13" SMB were caught on a circle hook under a bobber with a live 4" GSH hooked through the back and all the other stuff was caught on the small jig tipped with Gulp Alive bait as pictured in the first picture.


Attachments
20181006_184153.jpg (106 downloads)
Description: 3.5" SMB caught. One of five

20181006_184811.jpg (152 downloads)
Description: small SMB number 2 of five. The other three looked the same, no pictures

20181006_175534.jpg (193 downloads)
Description: One of the potential parents also caught tonight. Caught two this size.

20181006_184014.jpg (86 downloads)
Description: And a RES caught tonight from this pond just for good measure.




Edited by snrub (10/07/18 12:31 AM)
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#497272 - 10/07/18 06:30 AM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Online   content


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2944
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
snrub, seems like u been catching quite a few smallies lately. So, it looks to me like you are going to have a nice small mouth lake in about 4 yrs because the ones pictured should be a nice size by then. Now, if your weather was anywhere like ours this past winter and spring then look for different sized yoy, I think. Do you have plenty of cover for the smaller ones to hide from your largemouth bass?
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#497280 - 10/07/18 11:04 AM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
No LMB to hide from in the RES/SMB pond and only transferring larger sizes to main pond. The 6" could potentially get eaten but most are 8" and bigger so unlikely.

Getting a fair amount of cover in RES/SMB pond via bushy pond weed and water primrose so the 4" do have some cover.
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#497282 - 10/07/18 11:09 AM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: snrub]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4399
Loc: Raymond, NE
Originally Posted By: snrub
I just do not understand these fingerling SMB that are 3.5" long this time of year. Was it a late spawn?


We had a cold spring here and it took a while for water temps to warm up, I am guessing your pond was the same. Keeping mind that the spawn is a rolling spawn, some will go early and some will go late. Your SMB spawn may have been spread out over a 4 to 5 week time frame.
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#497283 - 10/07/18 12:25 PM Re: A pond dedicated to Redear Sunfish [Re: Shorty]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5537
Loc: SE Kansas
That makes sense to me, but I thought only BG and possibly RES did that. I would think that would have to be the explanation.

Also since all of the spawn would have been the first spawn, since all were fingerlings the year before, I wonder if some sexually mature later and that causes a later than normal spawn.

I do not know that, just speculating.

The 4" SMB I move to my forage pond where they grow up to about 6-8" then if/when I catch them again (caught a couple with cast net recently) move them to my main pond. So the small 3-4" SMB I catch get moved twice. First from RES/SMB pond to my 1/20th acre forage pond to grow up a little so they will not get eaten, then over to my main pond to grow out on plenty of BG and become a bonus fish along side my LMB.

Raining cats and dogs right now outside and I had a dozen fish to clean and was going fishing. Maybe I will wait a little while. grin


Edited by snrub (10/07/18 12:33 PM)
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