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IT may be too late in the season to use traps but a minnow trap or crayfish trap thrown in now, or in early spring at ice out might be an important step.

First, many found out that the pond that was supposedly devoid of fish, somehow got stocked. Whether it was the eagle that flew over, the heron that swallowed the spawning fish and pooped out the eggs before taking off, or the helpful neighbors who saw water and thought it might be good to add something to it, or some other way, all your plans change in a mighty big fashion when you find out that there is something in your pond already.

IF the only thing you catch is crayfish, fine. If next spring you also catch other fish then we can identify them and start over from there.

In the meantime you can probably plan for sources of forage fish and start with them at ice out. Plan for building structure (research structure that is more snagproof since you want to swim and fish in it)

Also there is a little friction between those who want a crystal clear swimming pond vs those who want a 'fertile' pond full of microscopic critters, occasionaly helpful blooms, visibility of only 20" or so to prevent unwanted weeds, etc. There probably is a happy medium but the food chain doesn't thrive as well in crystal clear water.

Knowing what kind of crayfish are in your pond would be helpful too.

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Whether you stock it now or in March is immaterial at this point; better to wait IMO. The fish won't make any growth or reproduction in the next three months anyway, and will be subject to predators and disease in the meantime due to cold stress.

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Originally Posted By: Rebuck
....
I want a place to picnic, clean water to swim..... Maybe something always biting for all levels of anglers. So BG's or sunnies are needed for little kids that come. I would like some other bigger fish. Maybe trout, cat fish, LMB..... I don't know much about crappie or perch.....


IMO you have a good start on establishing goals. IMHO I would work with the pros here to firm it up and convert that to a stocking plan. Once I had a stocking plan, I would then search the archives and ask questions to get a plan for establishing a habitat/cover plan that will support your stocking plan. You could be working on creating habitat/cover between now and spring so you'll be ready to start stocking your forage. Some of that activity also might be easier to do now while the pond is only partially filled.

A couple of questions that might help narrow the playing field...

1) Are you planning to feed your fish pellets?
2) Will you be willing to harvest fish as required to help maintain balance?

Just my 1 cent...

Bill D

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/13/16 07:12 PM.

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Bill D and others.... This help is awesome! Your questions are easy I think. I would feed if I had to and I would be more than willing harvest some fish.

Here is a concern I have about building structure now. I'm only 1/2 full. Could any structure I throw in affect the ability to later seal the pond if needed? I do not think I have a bad leak but I don't know. It has been going up a little each day.

Also, do I have to plan a stocking plan with some plants around the edges? Do they go hand in hand or are the plants mostly for decoration?

What about the general microscopic life? It has been suggested that I get 55 gallons from a neighboring pond to put in mine to start the little bugs.

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Plants in the pond consume nutrients and usually compete with filamentous string algae(FA). Generally, the more higher plants that are present the less FA persent. Without competition for space and nutrients FA thrives on all available nutrients that are present. Newly exposed dirt almost always has nutrients leaching out of it to grow weeds-plants. The more the dirt is compacted the harder it is for many plants to get rooted.

Submerged plants provide the most competition for FA whereas the emergent shoreline plants stabilize the shoreline to reduce erosion and compete with other nature's introduced plants that can be a nuisance if not managed. Some common good emergent plants are water iris, spike rush, pickeral plant, lizard tail, dwarf cattail, some Juncus. IMO the best deeper water plants are hardy hybrid water lilies in the dwarf, small, and medium size ranges. I don't recommend water lilies in the large category that can grow 7-9ft deep unless it is a lake.
This from the Archives will get you started learning about pond plants. There is also a thread in the Archives about water lilies.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=440475#Post440475

Introducing water from an established pond can be beneficial providing the donor pond does not have various algae issues esp in mid-summer. Ponds do develop a natural micro-organism community - Nature is amazing about introducing zooplankton. Try not to introduce problems that can develop later. A general good time to move water is when the donor pond is clear. I always check the algae and zooplankton community for species composition before adding any water to a pond. Otherwise it is a "crap shoot". A receiving pond with out fish does not need very much water introduced (1-5gal). The "bugs grow quickly even in colder water. If the donor pond regularly received chemical treatments/herbicides often the beneficial micro-organism community is compromised. Fish species present will generally determine the structure of the zooplankton community. Certain fish species such as small BG, crappie, and lots of abundant minnows heavily graze on larger zooplankton changing the species present, especially consuming the larger species that are selectively grazed. Ponds with dense or significant amounts of cover provide refuge & habitat for zooplankton. The ponds that have just LMB is where I get the best water and zooplankton. These ponds are generally quite clear. Bass >4"-5" long rarely eat larger zooplankton (Daphnia - Diaptomus) thus those ponds have lots of good large zooplankton species. Note that the species composition of zooplankton will often be different seasonally.


Structure does interfere with dirt work in a pond.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/14/16 12:31 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Rebuck
....Here is a concern I have about building structure now. I'm only 1/2 full. Could any structure I throw in affect the ability to later seal the pond if needed? I do not think I have a bad leak but I don't know. It has been going up a little each day.....


Since you are still concerned about leaks, you way want to consider initially placing more portable structure/habitat such as pallets, that can easily be removed if required. Some folks even attach pallets to shore by ropes so they can reposition or remove them. The archives show many examples of homemade and store bought structure that could be removed from the pond relatively easily if required.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/14/16 06:56 PM.

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I planted some hybrid lily plants while my pond was filling, a lot easier than when it is full! Same goes for a dock.

Take your time stocking, but for the most part establishing the forage base first and giving it time to "settle" is a good idea. While you are feeling this first year or so out, you will get an idea where to put additional structure. It is also a good time to try planting desirable plants to get a leg up on the undesirable ones. The sooner you can get desirable plants established, the better! They will then "steal" from the not so pleasant plants to keep them under control.

So if I were you, I would stock fathead minnows any time the water is cold, but not frozen of course. These little guys will reproduce like crazy at the earliest opportunity. Once you can walk across their backs, it is time to *slowly* introduce predator fish. I like the idea of ladder-stocking myself, as it gives your pond a chance to catch up and settle in to the changes.

My big mistake was putting in walleye, black crappie, and yellow perch at the same time and size. The walleye could only eat fatheads, and starved soon enough. The YP and BCP out-competed them and helped to make the FHM go extinct. If I established FHM first, then the YP a year later, waited a year or two for the perch to spawn once or twice, then introduced the WE, I likely would have had much better balance than I do now and would be fishing for some amazing WE. Instead I am targeting massive perch.

If planning on swimming, no bluegill or sunnys. They like to nibble/bite inconvenient locations on your person.

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Few items.... I hit 8 feet deep this morning!

First question, when is the very earliest I can get fat head minnows in the water? How may should I purchase for 3/4 acre pond?

Second question, how would a pile of old tires all cabled together work for some underground structure? Could the minnows lay eggs on them like wood pallets? Seems like tires would be good to not get snagged on and good to swim around and easy to get out if I need to remove the for any reason if they are all cabled together in a ball or other weird shape.

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I would wait to add the FHM whenever the ice melts in spring and before the water reaches 60F around the time FHM spawn (64F). How many to stock really depends of your needs for the FHM. In your 0.7ac, add more(8-12 lbs predator dependant) if the adults can be eaten and a lot fewer(2-3 lb) if you want them just for producing fry as later forage minnows. Adding too many FHM as breeders often results in an overabundance of fry that grow very slowly due to over crowding.

IMO bundled tires will not work as well as stacked pallets for FHM spawning. For pallets put some spacers for a 2" gap between each pallet which adds more surface space for spawning.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/22/16 02:48 PM.

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Does it matter if the pallets are in constant shade? I built a really big dock and could put them under there. You see I don't have much area in the pond where the sides aren't very steep and I'm 15' deep in most areas. There is room under the deck to put a few piles of pallets that come within a foot of the surface of the water.

If shade doesn't matter, I plan on having two pallet piles (spaced for more room), a good sized tire bundle chained together and possibly some bowling balls with PVC loops that mimic atoms in chemistry!

FYI I hit 100 inches deep Jan 2nd so that's a cool number. Also, all the above "structure" could easily be removed if something needed sealed in the future. I want to stay away from giant root balls or tree tops if I can incase they need removed.

Happy New Year Guys, I really appreciate all the help and suggestions

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A couple of ideas on structure placed in deep water.

If you only have mostly deep water, you can make tall structure that comes within whatever distance you want of the surface. The deep part is not wasted as the fish will use it in the colder months when the pond is not stratified or all the time if aeriation is used.

Another option is add some floatation to the structure then anchor it at the proper depth using concrete blocks and appropriate rope length. Let it float up to the level you want it at.

Last edited by snrub; 01/05/17 11:10 AM.

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I have to ask again, would it matter if the pallets for FHM were under the dock in constant shade? Sorry to be a pain but I am getting close to the level where these pallets need to go in.

On an other note, I wont have any accurate water level measurements for a while, the ice here pulled out my iron stake that I had a tape measure stuck to. I took a transit down and shot level and marked the posts holding up the dock now. If my transit was correct, I think finished height of the deepest part of the pond will be around 14'9". I was in a terrible hurry cause my lovely wife was only gonna hold the metal transit stick about 2 more seconds before stabbing me with it. It was minus 4 with the wind chill when we were down there.

Thanks in advance

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Originally Posted By: Rebuck
I have to ask again, would it matter if the pallets for FHM were under the dock in constant shade? Sorry to be a pain but I am getting close to the level where these pallets need to go in.

....


IMO if you want to maximize your FHM population, the pallets would serve you better in the sun. My reasoning (right or wrong) is the water will warm faster in the sun in the spring and trigger the FHM spawn sooner than if the pallets are in the shade. Same goes for the fall. The water in the sun will cool more slowly than water in the shade and keep the spawn going longer. I also think the plankton will probably be more numerous in the sun to feed the newbie FHMs after they hatch. Also, IIRC, there is a minimum number of daylight hours required to induce FHM to spawn and I'm not sure how being under a dock would affect that.

Not a pro, just my 1 cent.

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/09/17 08:10 PM. Reason: Clarification

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