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Hey All, My 1/4 acre pond will be filling up soon and I am still struggling with the "right way" to stock it. I realize that I may not get fish into it this fall, but I want to be ready just in case it fills up sooner than later.

It is a triangular pond with a 100 foot dam and 170 foot sides. Approximately 100 feet of both sides will be VERY steep while the last 70 feet on the shallow end will go from it's bottom depth of 10 feet sharply to 3 feet and taper to zero. This taper will be about 60 foot in length.

I prefer fishing with lures by casting and reeling so I am bias to LMB, crappie, and GSF, I do love to catch CC in this fashion too, but that is a pretty rare occurrence. I know that crappie and GSF are not desirable and will NOT be putting those in the pond. The pond has a 25 acre watershed with no other ponds above it that could lead to other breeds of fish being introduced.

My initial thoughts are BG and LMB. CC would be OK, but I do not want to replace any of the few LMB I can put in with muddy water making CC.

The generic guidelines for my area in Missouri are...

125 BG in Sept to Oct
25 CC in Sept to Oct
25 LMB the next year in May to June

My problem is the low numbers of LMB when the CC are not that desired. Can you all help me balance my preferences while keeping reality in mind? I may be able to talk myself into feeding the pond, while an aeration system is not likely. The pond gets little direct sunlight, only during the few hours around noon. As mentioned above, my pond will have minimal shallows for nesting due to the steep nature of the ravine that has been dammed.

All comments are appreciated,


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If possible add FH minnows now. They will help no matter which way you go with the remaining fish.
















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HSB could be an option if you feed .. fight harder than LMB ..
+ 1 on the FHM ASAP


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3/4 Acre Pond: HSB,SMB,YP,HBG,RES
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The pond's a bit too dry just yet for adding the FHM...



Unless there is a new hybrid version that I am un aware of. A cross between a minnow and a lizard?

I will certainly add FHMs after the next few rains come. The dam should be done today or tomorrow and hopefully the next rain or two will fill'er up. That's why I might not get to putting fish in until next spring (If it does not fill up before October is over).


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Many suggest BG to LMB should be at least 10:1 and several pros are suggesting #s in the 30:1 or even 40:1.

I would add RES(50-100) and FHM to the list. It may be hard to balance that many CC and LMB, both being predator fish.

Maybe

350 BG
100 RES
5# FHM
20 LMB
10 HSB or CC

Last edited by BrianL; 10/14/16 01:04 PM.

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I like the idea of mixing in the RES in lieu of some of the BG and adding forage fish at least initially, but I do not see the HSB as an option from the fisheries here in Missouri. I suspect that they are not that well adapted to the area or at least not for (very) small ponds. By the way, my OP states the generic guidelines as I have reduced the numbers for my 1/4 acre pond. I assume Brian is talking fish per acre. If that is the case, I would be inclined to consider the following for my small pond...

88 BG
25 RES
5# FHM
8 LMB

This list substitutes LMB for the CC unless there is some ecological reason to have CC. I do not expect to grow big bass, in fact, from what I have read, any LMB over the 12"-15" length should be removed so that they do not get big enough to eat the larger BG while the smaller LMB will help keep the BG and RES from overpopulating. It would appear from my research the small ponds are best suited for growing sizable pan fish (BG, RES, etc.) compared to LMB and CC. I'd like to throw a few CC in, but hate to reduce the number of LMB, especially with Brian's recommendation of 10:1 (or worse). I have to say that the limited reading I have done states (at least for my area) that the ratio of panfish to LMB plus CC to pan fish is more like 3(panfish):1(larger predator) for initial stocking. Maybe they are assuming a higher die off rate for the LMB/CC, I don't know!


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Those #s are reduced to 1/4 ac, based on what they stocked in my 2 ac.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
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HSB are not limited to large ponds. They will easily live in 1/4ac. HSB and LMB will co-habitate. If you want an impressive LMB-HSB fishery especially if you have access to electricity and aeration buy all pellet trained fish and feed them pellets daily and you will be surprised at what you can grow. Use the ladder stocking method. This will allow to you grow more bass and bigger bass in a small pond. Do some more homework before pulling the fish stocking trigger. Check the PB archive section about more information about growing bass on pellets. Lots of great info here about growing LMB.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=255372#Post255372

Archived Info here about HSB
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92629#Post92629

You can do some pretty impressive things fish wise in 1/4ac. An old time member here grew 400 feed trained and fed bass from 1/2 to 6 pounds in a 0.62 acre pond at one time. The pond also had two diffusers running 24/7. Feeding the fish can increase your carrying capacity exponentially. With aeration your 1/4 ac could safely handle a mixture of 60-80 catchables including some large pellet fed bass 4-6lbs. That said it is risky and can get dangerous, but it is possible with good management.

A small pond of 1/4 is beneficial if the fishery needs to be completely renovated to start over. Renovation is not so easy in larger ponds over an acre.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/14/16 02:53 PM.

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Alright, now you all have me thinking HSB. I guess the Missouri Conservation (MoCOns) website does not mention the HSB because they typically focus on native species. The MoCons recommend in general...

"The Conservation Department recommends that the maximum number of largemouth bass, bluegill and channel catfish when stocked in combination be 100 bass, 500 bluegill and 100 channel catfish fingerlings per surface acre."

This is were my list came from in my OP. If I lean towards a BG pond with bass as my population control I suspect I could use the HSB instead of LMB. This keeps the population of the predators in total check and because the HSB has a smaller mouth, I could let them get quite a bit bigger before removing them. Huh? Something to think and read more about.

By the way, I will have a hard time committing to feeding daily but we'll see. I certainly do not want to plan the pond around regular feeding initially.


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That's a 100:1 watershed for that small pond. It could easily be overtopped. Maybe you could divert some of that watershed. Five acres of watershed would be enough. If you can commit to feeding, you could grow a lot of channel catfish. They could reach three pounds in one year with intensive feeding.

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Yes, the pond will be overtopped. It does that about twice a year and I have to put the driveway back. Without the pond I'd be working the driveway a lot more. I plan to add a few more feet of freeboard to help reduce the overtopping, but my gut tells me it will only reduce the amount of time that it is actully flowing over the top. As sfor diverting watershed... I could have a lake built above it but that's not going to happen. There goes my mushroom patch!


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Originally Posted By: Quarter Acre
I like the idea of mixing in the RES in lieu of some of the BG and adding forage fish at least initially, but I do not see the HSB as an option from the fisheries here in Missouri. I suspect that they are not that well adapted to the area or at least not for (very) small ponds. By the way, my OP states the generic guidelines as I have reduced the numbers for my 1/4 acre pond. I assume Brian is talking fish per acre. If that is the case, I would be inclined to consider the following for my small pond...

88 BG
25 RES
5# FHM
8 LMB

This list substitutes LMB for the CC unless there is some ecological reason to have CC. I do not expect to grow big bass, in fact, from what I have read, any LMB over the 12"-15" length should be removed so that they do not get big enough to eat the larger BG while the smaller LMB will help keep the BG and RES from overpopulating. It would appear from my research the small ponds are best suited for growing sizable pan fish (BG, RES, etc.) compared to LMB and CC. I'd like to throw a few CC in, but hate to reduce the number of LMB, especially with Brian's recommendation of 10:1 (or worse). I have to say that the limited reading I have done states (at least for my area) that the ratio of panfish to LMB plus CC to pan fish is more like 3(panfish):1(larger predator) for initial stocking. Maybe they are assuming a higher die off rate for the LMB/CC, I don't know!


Reading your posts, I am guessing you are wanting larger BG over LMB, correct?

Quarter Acre, our Missouri guidelines are very outdated compared to what we know now. Central Missouri is fertile, and should be initially stocked at a 10:1 rate for BG:LMB. Also, 1500 BG/150 LMB per acre Except for the rocky Ozarks and 750BG/75 LMB in the Ozarks The 11:1 rate is even better, but for slightly larger LMB sizes and numbers.

Hybrid Striped Bass do exceptionally well in Missouri, and in small impoundments.

If wanting larger BG, you will want closer to the 3:1 ratio you mentioned, but, you will have few BG and lots of stunted LMB in a few years...

Again, if wanting BG over LMB, I would suggest the following stocking plan, and purchasing a quality automatic fish feeder.

500 Hybrid Bluegill or 250 BG
25-50 RES
25-40 HSB
5-10# FHM
5-10# Golden Shiner (optional)
10-20 CC (Optional)

The HBG, HSB and CC will all need to be replaced as caught, and regularly available supplemental feeding would be needed.

You can also have your Crappie, in a safe Hybrid Version, but would need to add 15-20 LMB and the Golden Shiners (10#) with 150-200 HBCP....I might suggest upping the FHM to 10-15# and dropping the HSB to a max of 20.

As for excessive watershed, a properly sized bottom draw siphon system installed now can easily handle high inflow events, help maintain good water quality, and stay fairly reasonably priced.


Last edited by Rainman; 10/15/16 02:06 PM.


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I would second the idea of trying to divert some of the runoff around the pond.

One thing I have learned from my 1/10th acre sediment pond (ahead of my main pond) is that large inrush of water can affect the fish in negative ways. A cold hard rain could give the fish temperature and/or ph shock as well as cause multiple "turnovers" per year under just the right (wrong) conditions.

That big of water exchanges will definitely cause management issues, in my non-expert opinion.

Last edited by snrub; 10/15/16 02:41 PM.

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Thanks for the conversation folks!

I am afraid that I have found myself painted into a corner with my pond as I purchased the place with the pond already there. It was severely filled in with silt (8-10 feet thick) and only 2 feet of normal water depth. This pond is up hill from my house and shop and the over flow is carried away by a 15 inch culvert 175 feet long. This culvert is grossly undersized and would have to be a least a few feet in diameter to carry the worst of weather. That size of culvert is not going to happen unless my bank account grows substantially. Once the culvert is overrun, the excess water travels between the house and the shop typically washing the drive out once or twice a year. I have excepted the fact "that's life". The ravine that makes the pond is steep and narrow, I don't think diverting water is even possible without that magic bank account I mentioned.

Before...


Currently...


There is still some fill that needs to come out and the far end needs some work so that I have some shallows where the water comes in.

At any rate, I am crossing my fingers that the pond does not have too many problems. I like the idea that Rainman suggests with a few possible mods...

300 Hybrid Bluegill
30 RES (ARE THESE A NECCESITY?)
30 HSB
5# FHM
5# Golden Shiner
10 CC (still thinking optional)

My list has reduced the numbers for the most part. I feel like I am being conservative so that I can ease into the stocking process BUT maybe that's a mistake? You all tell me. And I believe that my small pond is best suited for growing decent BG-like fish rather than the big bass varieties so I have settled for using the bass as a population control method. The hybrids (read less population growth)
would lend themselves to a catch and release type of pond until the HSB get too large when they could be taken out so that they don't starting eating the medium to large pan fish.

Am I on a decent thought pattern?

Last edited by Quarter Acre; 07/03/18 02:44 PM.

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There are others on here that are much more qualified than me, and you might want to PM some if they don't see this. With the amount of overflow you are going to be dealing with, it might be better to do a CC and HSB with feeding and restock as need. I think too many of your fish will end up down the creek during high rain times, making it VERY hard to manage your pond. You could add CC and HSB, let them grow, catch all you can then restock. Maybe next time you want tilapia during summer and trout thru the winter... Most of us use one stocking then manage those fish for the next 10-15 years. You may need to go a little different direction, but could be just as fun or funner with a different pond every 6 months, every year or two.

Bob has some good info an small ponds that he stocks several times a year. You might want to check his site out and look in resources. I couldn't find the article, but he has one about a 1/10(?) acre pond that he stocks often with different types of fish. Just a suggestion.

http://www.bobluskoutdoors.com/articles/managing-the-mini-pond-2011-09-295

Bob Lusk Outdoors facebook page seems to be a little easier to find those articles.

Last edited by BrianL; 10/17/16 10:38 AM.

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Could you make it bigger so it matches the size of the watershed? Should be about 2-1/2 acres to match.

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Thanks for the link to Bob's site, very good articles and I found the one regarding small ponds here...

http://www.bobluskoutdoors.com/news-updates/managing-the-mini-pond-raising-tilapia-2016-06-2748

Nothing is ever easy, it seems, so I hope to put a wide shallow emergency overflow on the dam with intentions of securing some fish saving heavy mesh to help reduce the number of fish "lost to the creek" I plan to start this pond off as you mentioned "Most of us use one stocking then manage those fish for the next 10-15 years." Should that fail, I'll have to regroup and go from there. I am still leaning towards the HSB, CC (possibly), and the HGB/BG for the larger fish to feed upon.

And John, As much as I'd love to have a much larger pond, I cannot give up the timber above this one. It is mostly walnut and that stand produces nice squirrel hunting and a very healthy patch of chanterelle mushrooms. Not to mention the dam would likely have to get much much taller but would not widen by much. The ravine it is in is very tight. It would create a very long, narrow, and deep pond. I would venture to say that the now 18 foot tall dam (on the pond side)would have to be doubled in height to get close to 2 acres. That would make for a 32 foot deep pond, 150 feet wide at the dam and about 600 feet long. That would produce 2 acres of surface area. The pond transits out to be about 16 foot deep with 2 feet of freeboard on the 120 foot wide dam.




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That is the article I was thinking of, but couldn't find it. I"m thinking of putting in a pond like that myself. What ever direction you decide, it will be a blast.


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Here's a quick question that I can't seem to find the answer to...

If I choose NOT to stock CC, do I add the balance to the HSB count?

For example, IF the following is my intended first year stocking...

300 Hybrid Bluegill
30 HSB
10# FHM
10 CC

AND I decide to forego the CC, does it turn into?...

300 Hybrid Bluegill
40 HSB
10# FHM


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Here is another thread with some links to small and specialty ponds that might have some worthwhile information.

Specialty ponds


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Do you plan on using a feeder or hand feeding?


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From what I have been reading, it sounds like feeding the fish may be the way to go. At this point, using a feeder is likely, but the pond is very close to the house and hand feeding is certainly a possibility.


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I would check with someone a little more in the know, but with feeding you should be able to stock a larger number of HSB. I would guess 40-60. Maybe more.

Last edited by BrianL; 10/19/16 04:34 PM.

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With normal rainfall, your pond will be more like a big pothole in a creek. I think maybe you could in a normal year stock much heavier than recommended for that pond size.

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I would strongly suggest adding 30-50 RES, for grub control. Snails always appear sooner or later, and the RES do a good job controlling the parasite's host (snails). RES can grow nicely, only spawn one a year, and taste great after a strong fight on a line.

If using an automatic feeder, and the likelihood of frequent water flushing, you can stock a lot more fish than you realize.

A bottom draw siphon could also improve water quality, AND reduce the chance of the dam being topped and/or breached.



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