Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Creating the food chain How many crayfish to stock for new pond

New 3/4 acre pond just starting to fill. About a foot of water in bottom now. Plenty of concrete structure in the bottom for them. Also rip rap around entire border. Will eventually stock SMB, YP and RES and forage bait. How many softshell crayfish from smith creek should I stock to get a breeding population going?

Better hurry if you want to stock them this fall. Smith Creek doesn't ship after September.

With no predators and plenty of rip rap you can save money up front and let nature do its thing for reproduction. Crayfish with no predation and a good habitat will multiply like crazy.

TJ once said he stocked 75 crayfish I think and in short order had nearly unlimited supply. I think he said he trapped around 2000 and counting?

If you stock crays, forage and want natural reproduction you need to give the cycle of crayfish young to be born and grow up and reproduce again. That means stocking any other species besides crayfish no sooner than spring of 2018.

So if you are patient, the minimum order of crayfish from Smith's would be fine with me.

Talked to them last week and they will ship into October a little as long as supplies last. Planning on ordering Thursday to have them for Friday.
Do you need to acclimate them to the water at all like other fish?

Slowly acclimate crayfish by exchanging water if water temperatures are noticeably different to the hand touch comparison.

Thanks guys. Probably will go with 75. Will put some FHM in this fall yet and more FHM, GSH, RES and HBG in spring 2017. May stock 3 different age class of YP fall 2017 unless you guys think to do perch in spring also. Then SMB in 2018. And maybe some HSB in 2018 if all else is doing well.

Would it be worth the chance to have them ship me 25 or 50 papershells to South Ga? I have a pond with some small rip rap, about 30 tons of small crushed rock and minimal vegetation around the pond. I am putting 1,000 2 inch BG in next month and bass next spring?

I have a about a half acre size tank around Pflugerville it has lots of moss and grass in it what are your thoughts on stocking it with Grass Carp to help control the growth the tank currently has some bass and catfish in it !

We stocked these and in two years you can't turn over a rock with out finding one.

C270,

I'm not a pro but I'm not sure from your description that you have a habitat PSC (papershell crawfish) will thrive in once predators are introduced. They need lots of places to get away from predators like large rip rap, boulder piles, etc.

Just my 1 cent

how many is there donobbd?
I just ordered 75 today. should be here next week. they will have over a full year to multiply until any larger predator fish will be introduced.
guy at smithcreek said they were starting to get low, so order soon if you want any.

Those pictures are of the same bin. I think at most 50-80. Our pond is only at most one acre when at full pool but have rock all away around.

The first year we saw the big ones but now rarely see the big ones but hundreds of yearlings every year.

When we clean perch in the spring of the year they will almost all have a crayfish in them that is about 1.5"s long. I gave the crayfish one year head start and that is all they will need for you. If your going with bass that could be a different story. Bass are crayfish eating machines.

Thanks dono. I will have SMB but not for at least a year. I have quite a few big broken concrete piles and will have rip rap all around border of pond and some bigger rip rap on one shorter side. Hope it's enough to give a chance at sustaining a good population.

I just ordered 100 crays from Smith Creek to put in my pond. They were nice and informative, he told me that by adding them now I should be fine by the time the LMB (2 inch)are added next spring. I also plan to put GSH in to help offset the bass attack on the crays.

I might have a source for White River Crawfish (Procambarus acutus). Does anybody have an opinion on whether they would be suitable for stocking a N. Illinois pond with SMB, WE and a few LMB as top predators? I have good crawfish habitat already in place. I understand they burrow but that the burrows are relatively shallow (30 CM) and I don't have a dam to worry about. I also understand that they get large enough for table fare which would be a plus for us.

Thanks for any advice, opinions or experience you can share.

If you have adult bass the crawfish will be snacks.

That's the plan. My research so far indicates the adults can be 4 to 5 inches (not including pinchers) so I want to make sure that 14 inch LMB (and smaller) along with the SMB and WE can control them and keep them from overpopulating. On the flip side, I am worried they may not be able to establish a thriving population even though I have good habitat for them. I understand there are no guarantees on the outcome, just trying to hedge my bet with as much knowledge as I can find on them.

Bump. No experience or knowledge anybody can share in the forum with White River Crays?

Bill, last spring I purchased 75 + lbs of crawfish from a local grower. He raises White River Craws along with Red Swamps. Grown here for the table, but he has several customers like me that add them to their lmb ponds as a snack. My experience, these craws were large in size and today as I walk around the pond, I see a few small crawfish holes. Very few holes are large enough to accommodate these large crawfish that were added. That is my experience with them and most likely not much help to you. But they were some really nice looking crawfish!!

Thanks for the input Tracy,


Sounds like your experience is in line with literature predictions for White River Craws of small burrows. Do you think you got a mix of Swamps and White River or only White River? Do you think 14 inch LMB are big enough to eat the adults you've seen?

Bill, the supplier said he had both crawfish. When I drove up to his place, I saw what I might describe as a cypress tree swamp. I don't know how one might separate the two because they will travel across land. I did not see where he had one place for one type and another place for another type of crawfish. As far as the size, all craws were in the 5 to 6" size. What I would call thick and heavy crawfish. The type we look for here when eating boiled crawfish at local restaurants. We do not always find this size when eating at those places. A lot of size depends on the time of year and the supplier. Now as far as lmb or smb eating this size craw, I will say that the majority of my lmb do not have large mouths but really nice sized bodies or RW. These lmb are not that old less than two years of age. But I believe they can tear a crawfish up When they attack a craw the fish will tear off the pinchers and or rip the tail off, lmb are aggressive and so are smb. Some of my lmb can and will eat the whole crawfish. They like eating crawfish, and so do I.

Bill, do you intend for the largemouth to be the main sport fish?

I once had about a 10 inch LMB in a tank. When I fed it craws, even large ones, it would rip them apart and eat them if it couldn't swallow them whole. A dozen or so every couple days. It would also eat a dozen feeder goldfish in less than a half minute. I kept it through one winter, and then put it back in the pond as it got too much of a hassle to keep fed.

Xraytrapper stated a small mouth, yellow perch, and RES.

I personally would leave the bass out for a few years first. Let the perch get a couple spawns in first too and the crayfish.

Small mouth later. I my self might add small mouth later but for now just perch and a few walleye. It would be fun to catch lunker small mouth.

Thanks for the info John,

I guess I never considered that LMB could actually dismember crays.

ABC,

My pond is a little different in that I'm not targeting a "main sport fish." I'm going for diversity in both forage and sport fish. I've always enjoyed river fishing because you never know what you might catch. I'm trying to manage my pond with that same goal. I'm not looking to raise trophy anything, just good fishing. In 2016 we caught healthy PS, YP, BG, HBG, SMB, WE, CC and LMB from the pond. I have also learned that ONE key to achieving that diversity goal is managing the size and quantity of your apex predators. For example, my long term tentative plan is to try to keep the majority of the LMB population at 14 inches or smaller which is why I'm asking if 14 inch LMB have the mouthgap to control the adult White River Crays.

If you're interested, here's a link to my thread documenting my journey.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=411590#Post411590

See this thread from the archives.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post206387

This is one small part.

Abstract.—We attempted to control a population of papershell crayfish (Orconectes immunis) in an 11-hectare fish-rearing impoundment in Jackson County, Wisconsin, by using traps and by stocking largemouth bass (Micropterus salmoides). Crayfish were harvested with traps during the summer of 1985, and the pond was stocked with 386 largemouth bass (mean weight, 1.1 kg) in spring 1986. The pond was drained in the fall of 1985 and 1986, and crayfish burrow counts were made to estimate the population. In 1985, we trapped more than 18,000 crayfish, of which 72% were adult males. Trapping had minor effect on the young-of-the-year crayfish. In 1986, the crayfish population was reduced by 98%, predation by largemouth bass being the probable major cause of the reduction.

Cody Note: Keep in mind that in the above study only 14 LMB per acre were stocked. These few bass were very capable of significantldy reducing the high numbers of crayfish.

Yes.

YP will stunt if they get to far ahead of their predator.

Ewest,

This may be one of those "it depends" situations. The trend I'm seeing in my pond is with the SMB, WE, CC and LMB as predators, there are very few if any YP recruits. It currently looks like, if I want to continue to have YP in the pond for table fare, I will need to periodically ladder stock 7 to 9 inch fish.

Thanks for the links to crawfish threads. Interesting reading. A few links I really wanted to read went to expired web pages. So far, the only PBF info I've been able to find on White River Crays is the info Tracy posted with his experience. If I can get some at a reasonable price, I might give them a try and post back my experience in a year or three.

Tracy, I was reading an online article a few weeks ago, and one of the Strike King lures guys said that by far the best jig results were with plastic crayfish trailers that had no pinchers. He said they don't make them because nobody would buy them. I guess like most LMB lures, their lures are made to catch fisherman, not fish.

To catch the fisherman is so true. I purchased my first Champion Bass boat in 1989. Duel console with a large casting deck. Under the casting deck were large storage areas, which I filled up with baits of all shapes and sizes. Today my 2001 champion has only a few baits because I learned that the way I fish is by using five different choice baits. Those baits have served me well. A jig with a smaller trailer works. Pork trailers in the winter and plastic the rest of the year.

A hijack here, but Bass Cat is currently working on a hybrid boat that has a BC top cap, and a Champion hull. The Champion hull is generally recognized as the the best big water bass boat hull ever made. Pretty cool deal actually.

Back to crayfish now. I'll probably get mine in March.

I love a Champion bass boat. I have ridden in most bass boats at one time of another. One can still buy a good condition champion bass boat if you look around. And Al, the Legend bass boat has the Champion hull or that is what I was told at the boat show. I did look at the hull and it looked to me to be a good copy. Champion was bought out by Ranger boats and I pass that factory when I head to White River Ark. I understood that Stratis (bought by Ranger) has a champion hull on one of their boats but only hearsay for me. Bass Cat, I have not heard. It would be a good hull. Champion hulls are like riding in a big old Cadillac.

Crawfish, I will add some more around Easter. Which is a good time for prices and size.

I am waiting for the perch bomb to go off. We stocked emerald shiners, common shiners, crayfish, and fat head minnows one year before the perch. I have never been able to catch any perch minnows in our traps yet and its been four years. We stocked 400 in an acre 6-8" and had ribbons the first year.

We have added walleye now with the hopes to cut back on the breeder shiners. The thought is that the population of shiners is eating the young perch fry.

Last year we had recruitment with small non stocked perch being caught at a rate of 1-5. This spring we will see where we are at on the fifth year.

Cheers Don.

BillD - IMO I would not stock white river crayfish until you have tried to use the northern crayfish aka virile or Orconectes virilis. Northern crayfish has an intermediate sized adult between the papershell and white river crayfishes. Putting in too large of a full sized crayfish such as the white river or red swamp could result in crayfish management problems since your larger bass will be 14"-15". I suggest you proceed cautiously and conservatively.

Thanks for the input Bill. Sounds logical and I will pursue that option. Do you (or any other member ) know of a reliable source where I can buy Northern Crayfish? My concern with just trying to trap some from a local stream or lake is that I don't have the knowledge to do a positive ID.

Contact TJ. He was complaining the last two years about having too many Northern 'Virile' crayfish.

Thanks Bill,

I sent TJ a PM. I'm thinking 500 northern crays for brood stock. You know my little puddle. Does that sound like a reasonable number?

Bill, 500 crawfish = how many per acre? I added small native craws for the past two years. The craws denuded (ate) about $1300 bucks worth of vegies. I know from your post you have added plants to the pond. Just thought I would throw that out there for thought. Maybe Tj's craws do not feed on the veggies. 500 craws sounds like a lot if the pond is an acre or so. I am no expert on craws, I would listen to Bill C for that info.

Thanks for the input Tracy! 500 would be about 1000/acre. I was going with this number as I was thinking there will initially be high predation until they get settled in.

My understanding is Northern Crayfish will definitely eat veggies and also burrow. I have an abundance of FA, which is one of the reasons I want to stock them but, there is no guarantee they would target that instead of my more desirable plants. Tilapia for FA control is not an option in Illinois. I'm not sure burrowing is a big problem for me as my pond is a water table pond and has no dam. Hopefully, Bill C. will chime in with additional thoughts.

I stocked right around 4,000 in my 3 1/2 ac pond and they are doing quite well for me. Im glad as I had a lot invested in them. I drove 11 hrs one way to get the paper shell species that Bill recommended. Next day shipping was absolutely out of this world on that many boxes of crayfish so I made the decision to make the trip up. I felt like the establishment of the crays was very important so I may have over done it on the stocking numbers since no predators were present when stocked. Id already went all out on 650 ton of rock and concrete for habitat so the long drive was the easy part of the equation. Now I walk the banks at night with a spot light and see cray fish every where and that is with SMB being present for two full seasons. Its nice to see the benefits of all the hard work and money invested!

I got a message back from TJ with some sage advice:

" I don't think you need the headache of the potential downside of the Northern's burrowing habit. I don't know how deep the burrows go, but I've got thousands of them."

Maybe I need to keep looking for a medium size non-burrowing species.

Adding 500 would be a good start to see if they can become established. 500 crays in your 0.5 ac is close to the density that Jamie Stocked (4000/3.5ac). White Rivers could get big enough that you & your roommate could eat some of them. If that thought interests you, then stock the White River crayfish.