Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site Pond in Huntsville, TX

Hello guys,

I'm new to the Pond Boss forum! I've been a magazine subscriber and passive viewer for a while....but am just now getting around to posting.

My dad and I own a 200 acre property near Huntsville, TX (1 hour north of Houston). The land is mostly heavily wooded, and we are primarily focused on deer and other wildlife/game animal management...but second in line to that is to create two different ponds on the property, each with different objectives. We have sandy loam soil throughout the property, with some clay and gravel once you dig down 4-6 ft. There are countless ponds and large lakes in the area, which suggests the ability to hold water is good.


Pond #1

We have a small "creek" on the property, which is actually more like a ditch, that drains probably 75-100 acres of watershed. It is roughly 4 ft. wide and 2 ft. deep at the widest point (farthest downstream) and has water for a week or less after a heavy rain. It originates only a few hundred feet off our property, and we do not have to worry about any other bodies of water upstream contributing bad things to our pond. We are planning to build a pond somewhere between 1.5 to 3 acres on this "creek". We understand that the creek may not contribute enough water to keep a pond this size full, so we are willing to put a well/solar pump at the site. The theme of this pond will be a trophy largemouth bass pond. Here are a few things I am thinking for the design/stocking plan:

- Lots of humps, ridges, peninsulas

- A "shelf" approximately 3-4 ft. deep all the way around the perimeter, going down to various depths in the middle (perhaps 8-14 ft.)

- Numerous man-made structures for bass cover (pallets, PVC trees, rock piles, dried hardwood trees, plastic 1/2 culverts, etc...)

- Bring in mixture of pea gravel and slightly larger aggregate to create bedding for bluegill (with carpet or other material underneath to prevent sinking of rocks)

- Initial stocking of fathead minnows, freshwater shrimp, gambusia, coppernose bluegill, and crawfish (letting them establish for 2 years before adding any predators)

- After 2 years of forage fish establishment, then stocking 100% sexed all-female bass (approx. 1/4 lb each) at a rate of 25-30 per acre.

- Supplemental feeding of trout and tilapia for the bass, as well as pelletized feed for the bluegill.


Pond #2

On the opposite side of the property, we have a natural low area that drains approximately 40-50 acres of watershed. Here we would like to build a combination duck/catfish/bream pond. Ideally, this pond will be 1 to 2 acres in size, with roughly half of it being shallow (2 ft) area capable of being drained and planted....and the other half being deeper (6-12 ft). Here are a few things I am thinking for the design/stocking plan:

- Another 3 ft. shelf around the perimeter of the "deep end"

- Shallow area will be located at the mouth of the drainage area into the pond (opposite side from dam), to allow for filtering of silt and such

- Bring in mixture of pea gravel and slightly larger aggregate to create bedding for bluegill (with carpet or other material underneath to prevent sinking of rocks)

- Initial stocking of fathead minnows, freshwater shrimp, gambusia, coppernose bluegill, and crawfish (letting them establish for 2 years before adding any predators)

- After 2 years, stocking channel catfish and hybrid bluegill

- Supplementing with pelletized feed


So that's the gist of it!

Please let me know what you guys think of my plan. I'm sure there are many, many things I am not thinking of. I have read a bit about the subject, but I am far from being an expert by any means.

This may be my only chance at doing this, so PLEASE don't hold back with the advice. I welcome any and all comments and constructive criticism.

Thanks & God Bless!

Eland, welcome to this PB forum. Looks to me like you have done some reading here and PB mag. Looks like a good game plan. I wonder why you are waiting so long to add your predators? In most all of Texas one can add forage fish in the fall and then add the predators the following spring. The cost of building these two ponds will not be cheap and in comparison the cost of stocking forage fish will be one of the least expensive of the things you plan on doing. I would contact Todd from Overtons fishery near Buffalo and set down with him for some discussion of your goals. He has some real nice lmb along with things like Blue catfish.

Tracy

Welcome Wade

A couple of thoughts. Both involve oxygen depletion.

Pond 1: You probably don't need two years before adding single sex bass with that much forage. And, being single sex, that small amount of predators might not be able to keep up with the forage spawning. Too many fish could get you an O2 problem with a resulting fish kill. When that happens, the bigger fish always go first. There's a delicate balance here. I think I would go with more predators but, it's a tough call.

Pond 2: Same type of problem. Only bass can keep up with BG spawning. I think I would skip the bluegills and most of the other forage. You can have a nice cat/HBG pond with just a Feeder and not worry about oxygen. Your annual draw down will crowd an awful lot of fish into a smaller area.

Due to crawdad burrowing, they can cause dam problems but I'm not overly concerned. It's unusual but can happen.

Good idea about digging a well. However, Conroe generally gets plenty of rain and you may never need it. If you do it, make sure to run the water over baffles to oxygenate it. Well water is seldom oxygenated when it comes from the ground.

I am in deep east Texas by Lake Sam Rayburn. I stocked cnbg in my 2 acre pond and let them grow 1 and 1/2 years before introducing only 50 4-5 inch Florida lmb. I feed every day...almost 100 pounds a month and still now my relative weights of my cnbg is dropping!! They have reproduced that much!! The bass are now reaching 11 inch and should spawn next spring but until then I know I am overpopulated with cnbg. If I didn't feed I would hate to think how bad they would be stunted. On the other hand the lmb are certainly growing fast!! Probably won't have many bass fry survive this first spawn because of all the cnbg. And the bluegill will just continue to be spawning like crazy!! It is truly a balancing act but I agree with others that you don't need to wait that long to include your predator fish. Just my opinion based on my results. My pond will be 2 years old next month.

On pond 2 no need to wait that long to stock predators. I would not mix BG and HBG in that pond. HBG and CC with the other forage and feeding should do well for a put and take fishery. I would add RES to the list. You can stock all of them at once at 2 inches in spring/summer or wait and stock the CC at 6 inches in the fall.

On pond 1 stock all the forage fish in spring/summer and stock 40 LMB per acre the next spring and then ladder in additional LMB over time ( 10 fish every 3 years +-) to sustain the population . Adjust as needed based on catch results and info. A little more work but the best way to get and keep a trophy LMB population over time.

Hey Wade,
Welcome to Pond Boss....tons of good info and helpful folks here. I'm just south and east of you in Leggett, TX...Polk County. Good Luck. Post some pics of your project when you have a chance.

ewest....how many CNBG would you recommend Eland stock into his Pond #1 on a per acre basis? And then after a season or two how many bluegill (if any) should he harvest every year approximately. I am trying to understand how many bluegill should be harvested in a "trophy bass pond" situation like Eland describes. I like the idea of 40 feed trained LMB per acre and then add 10 per acre every 3 years. Need guidance on the BG or CNBG side of the stocking/harvest equation. Thanks. BM61

Very good question. The best answer is to monitor the population status and add more CNBG adults (or other forage) as needed over time. In his location and noting his anticipated use of tilapia and trout with feeding it will be a balancing act. A key factor here is that there should be no LMB reproduction (very important)as the need for lots of extra CNBG is greatly reduced. Rather than needing lots of extra CNBG to feed the LMB offspring you will instead need enough total forage to feed the single sex LMB population. In short you don't have to plan in advance to feed all those LMB babies over time. There is a huge difference in the forage needed to feed LMB in his plan vs a regular stocking plan. With that being said you then need to look to his goal wrt CNBG. The normal method/amount recommended for BG in a trophy LMB pond with reproducing LMB to keep ahead of the curve for the first 3 years IMO is 3000 per acre. That is not needed in his approach. Depending on what in the way of feed trained LMB , tilapia and trout to be added changes the CNBG equation. There is no reported science that I am aware of on this type of plan except one out of GA reported in PM mag a couple issues back. My best guess is to put in 1000 CNBG per acre and let them spawn before adding any LMB ( CNBG in spring and LMB the following spring). No harvest of CNBG for 2 years then assess and go from there. This assumes the use of tilapia , trout and feeding as needed. Monitor LMB RW and condition. Then in year 3 you can harvest some mid size CNBG as the condition and population status allows. This is a method to try and get big LMB and some big CNBG. The idea is to use data to anticipate needs in front of you and match them. For example I don't think you need tilapia in his plan until year 3 and trout about year 4 (not after those years but during). Feeding will make a big difference especially if the LMB eat pellets (from between 4 and 8 to 1 feeding efficiency gain using high quality pellets).

Do you have any experience fishing for LMB that are eating pellets? If so, does it affect their ability to be caught on normal artificial lures?

Honestly, I would prefer that the bass DO NOT eat the pellets....because I feel it is unnatural. The only reason I want to have a trophy LMB pond is to be able to catch trophy LMB on artificial lures.

If being pellet trained inhibits the LMB's natural instincts to go after lures, then that would be a bad thing in my opinion.

I remember fishing in a pond that had pellet trained striped bass, and they would not touch any type of artificial lure. That is certainly not what I am wanting.

If you feed pellets to the CNBG , trout and tilapia you will see a gain in efficiency through their size and ability to put weight on the LMB. If you feed both the LMB and others you will see a bigger gain in LMB growth efficiency.

Suggest you read up on the trophy LMB threads and catchability to improve your management base. Especially if you are going to use Florida LMB females.

Here are a few of many which may apply. Keep asking questions - there may not be answers but its a great way to learn.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.ph...true#Post428809

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=404344&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=395416&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=323126&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=222971&page=1

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=442942&page=1

Any progress on these ponds? I have looked at many properties in the Huntsville, Cleveland etc area and am having a tough time with the soils. NRCS just thumbs downed one I was hot on buying.

Do you know your specific soil types? There is an app, Soilweb, that will look it up for your exact location. There is also a soilweb site that will show the detailed soil map for your property.