Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Building a dam How to make my pond dam wider?

I'm building small pond in a small valley in North Carolina and the dam is 20 feet wide at its base and now it's about 10 feet deep. I need it to be about 5 feet taller but it's too narrow at the top to drive my skid steer across. In fact I've fallen off of it in my skid steer twice.
How can I make it wider at the top?

Well I am no expert and don't take my word for it, but if it were me and I wanted a taller dam I would start at the bottom and build the bottom wider and move upward with a wider base.

If you want the slope safe to mow the steepest I would go would be a 3 to one slope and better yet a 4 to one slope. So for a 10' tall dam the bottom would need to be 40' wide plus the width you want the top to be. So if you want a 10' wide top you would need 40+10=50' wide base for a 4-1 slope on a 10' high dam. 90 feet wide base on a 20' high dam. That is a lot of dirt.

Hope this helps but do not take my word for it. Contact your local government NRCS agent and he might be able to help or at least give you a publication on dam building considerations. It is easier to do it right the first time compared to doing it over after it is done incorrectly and fails.

Not to mention falling off a dam with a skid steer loader is a good way to get yourself killed. Skid loaders are not very stable on slopes. Likely not the best piece of equipment to be using.

I'm no expert either, but everything I've read from those who are says that 3 to 1 is the minimum safe slope. In fact, that's what I have for my dam, because I wanted to maximize the size of the pond. But it is definitely steep and I'm glad I had professionals build it.

If you are in the same situation I was, you could consider scraping out dirt from the shallow areas of the pond to help build the base of the dam. Shallow water is the bane of small ponds, they can silt up plenty fast and end up being a weedy nuisance.

Best of luck!

Thank you! I've got a 20' twelve inch pipe at the base now to drain the water that comes in. I'll add another 10' of drain pipe at the base and build another 10 ' wide layer that I will build up beside the existing 20' tall dam.
This will give me a 3:1 slope and allow me to add another 5' taller height, I hope. So, I'll end up with a little less than a 3:1 slope. But I'll have a much bigger pond.
I appreciate any advise or thoughts on this, especially on how to build that second layer.
It'll take a lot of dirt, a lot more time and hopefully I can build the extra layer up to the existing dam without falling off again!

If you are adding that much dirt to the dam, I would do some research and see if they put a compacted clay core in your dam. My fear is that if you don't cut back the surface dirt to the core, then add to the core and compact it properly, that the dam might leak where the new dirt starts...

Here's a picture for an illustration of what I'm talking about:

Esshup is right. If there is a layer of topsoil between the subsoil and your dam material it will likely leak there.

Around here there are countless cow ponds that were built for water for the cows. They were hastily thrown up with a bulldozer and no compaction or what we would consider proper pond building techniques today. But one thing I learned when I was a teenager from an old catskinner was that you always skinned off the topsoil down to clay where the dam was going to be before pushing up the dam. That layer of topsoil would be a constant seep if not.

Our soil for the most part has enough clay content that we usually don't have much problem with dams leaking even if they are made of topsoil. But an undisturbed layer of topsoil beneath the dam is asking for trouble.

I did dig a core trench on both sides of the dam but not in the center of it. However I have compacted the dam by driving my skid steer across it hundreds of times in building it up.
At this point, there is no way I could get my little back hoe on the back side of the dam to dig a trench. The only way I could dig a trench is on the front side of the dam, next to the existing dam.
Do you think I should?
It would also be possible to widen the dam on the front side instead of the back.
Maybe that's what I should do?

Tracked construction equipment is used because the tracks allow the equipment to "float" over the ground and not sink in. Just the opposite of what you are trying to do when wanting to pack material to prevent it from leaking.

Think about it for a minute, if your skidsteer had tires on it, would it still be able to go over soft ground, or would it sink in? When packing dirt, it's all about PSI on it.

Like using snowshoes to walk on snow vs. stilts......

Core trenches in dams aren't put in from the front or the back, they are put in from the top.

Probably the most important thing is that there is a continuous layer of soil that is capable of sealing water in from a seal-able subsoil all the way to above full pool level on the dam. This would need to be on the front or the middle of the dam, not the back side where static water pressure could push it out.

There have been many, many ponds in my area pushed up with nothing other than a dozer and the only compaction of the dam was with a dozer with no compaction in the bottom of a pond that do not leak or at least do not leak in any appreciable amount. But we have soils and subsoils that have enough natural clay content that they will generally seal. Many parts of the country do not have that luxury of soil type. That is, luxury for building ponds and a curse for farming (for several reasons). Also the taller the dam the more static pressure developed and the more important proper compaction is. There are hundreds of half acre ponds in my neighborhood with relatively short dams that have been built with no compaction other than dozer tracks that hold water fine. I would guess there are zero ponds built without proper dam compaction that were several acres or larger with very tall dams. Once you get past a certain height of dam or size of pond, the consequences of a dam failure become much more dramatic so things are usually done right. For a half acre cow pond the economic consequences of it not working are relatively mild so a lot of people will just hire a dozer and take a chance. If you are talking a ten acre lake that costs many tens of thousands of dollars, most people want it done right the first time.

So you have to ask yourself if you are willing to suffer the consequences of a leaky pond or dam failure if you end up not getting the job done right and you have a failure. If the price of failure is too high for you, you might want to consider hiring a professional to build the pond even if it costs more up front. If failure is something you can live with and the process of doing it yourself is worth the risk by all means proceed. I've done many things in my lifetime at risk of failure and since I never had a formal college education just chalked up the failures as my "tuition" and never looked back. I've always figured if I was not failing at something at least once in a while it meant I had quit trying. Failure for me is just part of the process.

Only you can decide if you want to take the chance your dam will seal with the work you have done and will be the one to suffer the consequences if it does not.

Personally I would probably do it and see if it worked. If it did not, I would go to "plan B". But that is just me and the way I am. Fear of failure is one of the most debilitating features of human nature in my opinion. I've constantly had to fight it all my life. I would rather try and fail than look back and regret I never tried. But again, that is just me. I fail a lot.

Thanks! My pond will be about 1/4 acre and about 20 feet deep at the deepest part. I am working with mostly all clay.
I've decided that I will dig a core trench on the front of my dam and build up my widening layer over it.
Meanwhile my small skid steer with a cat Diesel engine will not crank.😱
It ran well after it rolled it 360 degrees off the dam. Then I power washed it to get all the mud off and it won't crank. It has good compression and is getting fuel but all it does is blow out black smoke.
Does anyone have an idea of what's wrong?

Welcome, Joseph, to the forum. Snrub will probably diagnose your problem in a heartbeat. Or maybe Sparkplug, too.
Meanwhile, you can try the forum tractorbynet.com I've gotten help for several of my tractor's problems from those folks.
I'm enjoying and fascinated by your thread.
Got any pics?

If you are getting black smoke likely you are not getting air.

Check the air cleaner. If it is wet or a hose or pipe got mashed or some other thing is blocking the air from getting to the engine it will smoke black smoke on cranking. Did you ram some mud in the intake area or mash the cover over the intake?

Detroit 2 cycle Diesels had an emergency shutdown flap that shut the air off to the engine in case of an engine runaway. In trucks there was an emergency shut down cable to actuate a spring loaded mechanism that controlled this flap. Invariably someone without knowledge of these engines would pull the emergency stop rather than the fuel stop when they shut the engine off. Then when the next person got in to start the engine all they would get is black smoke and no start. The emergency flap shut off all air to the engine. Open the hood and trip the spring loaded latch and "varoom!" Off she'd go.

You have got air intake restriction some where. If you can not find it, try taking the air intake hose off at the engine or turbocharger if equipped. Then see if the engine will start being careful not to suck loose dirt into the engine. If it starts and runs start at that point and follow the air path back through the air cleaner and intake to see where the problem is. If fluid saturated the air filter that will not let air through.

If that is not the problem let us know and we will go from there.

Hope you were wearing your seat belt. Bet that was a ride! I know a dozer operator that slid sideways down a slope then the dozer rolled when it hit the bottom. He ended up with a hydraulic lever knob through his cheek and lost some teeth. Not fun. Messed him up pretty good. This was a guy in his late 30's or early 40's and had run a dozer all his adult life. Be more careful.

I'm with snrub...if you are getting black smoke, you have fuel. Most CAT engines have an electronic shutoff (solenoid) on mechanical engines, and simply shutting off power to an electronic one with electronically fired injectors. Does it have a low oil shutoff?? If you rolled it and it happen to be low on oil it would not fire...but it should shut off fuel and you are getting black smoke...just a thought. Along with checking for air restriction, check for moisture...if there is any in the air intake they will be very hard to start or wont. Could also be air in the lines. If it is a fuel pump engine you should see fuel lines going from the pump to the head. Crack these open just a little then either turn the engine over until you see fuel from all lines...or there might be a little pump you can pump (normally close to the fuel filter) that you can pump fuel through the system with. Possible after a roll to have air trapped. You may have fuel to one or two cylinders but not all three or four or however many you have. I have seen this before. Puff puff goes the black smoke but no start until you get the air worked out of the systems. Just some thoughts.

Thanks guys! Sorry for the delay. My little ASV R C 30 still has problems. After I rolled it, it started right up and I drove it 10 minutes back to my house. Then I power washed it and after that it would not crank, just blows black smoke but I not fire.
Then I took off the air filter, checked the fuel filter and changed the diesel fuel. Still nothing. Then you he next day it cranked up and ran twice. But an hour later, it was back to not cranking and blowing black smoke. A real mystery!!!

Is there a return line back to the fuel tank?