Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions New aeration in old pond

I share a pond with my neighbor and I want to start adding some aeration to it. 2 years ago it had a decent bass population, but we had a very cold winter and many died off. Mostly i just find bullhead in it now, and they're very small. They also used to be much bigger.

Map of pond - [img]http://imgur.com/a/rNju6[/img]

Most of my pond is 6 feet deep, some of it within my property line is 8 feet deep.

So here's what I'm thinking of starting with.

-Air Pump - Gast rotary vane pump 10.00 psi, 4.8 CFM
http://www.septicsolutions.com/septic-pa...septic-air-pump

-Diffuser - Not sure

-Line - Weighted line

I'd like to put it in front of my dock, which is where the white line points to in the little image I made.

Questions-

Can I start with just aerating a small section of the pond?
If possible I'd like to keep the cost down of electricity and equipment by doing this.

What would a good diffuser be for this pump?


Thanks!

After much research on this forum, I've ordered the Gast 523 pump, 3 - 9 inch matala diffusers with bases, and 3 runs of sinking line to start with. I'm going to run 20 amp service down to the pond so that I can expand the system in the future.

I'd like to see an install with pics!

Welcome by the way!

Ummmm that's a big pond! And it has a weird shape to it. Anyone out here worth their grain of salt would say your going to need at least 2 to 3 stations really. 1 in that dog leg area to the right of your dock. and one out in the middle of the big area really you should have 2 or 3 out there.... but that's just me. Lets see what others have to say...

RC

In a pond that big I would use a 1/2hp or 3/4hp rotary that produces 8-10 cfm. IMO the 0523 model(4.8cfm) does not produce enough air volume for a 5 ac pond. Even 10cfm may not be enough to adequately turn over 5 acres of water.

Thanks to everyone for the input. I really appreciate the help. I'll be sure to take place pictures.

The current hope, and I know it could be flawed since I'm very new to this, is a 3 part approach.

The large part to the north is mostly under 6 feet, so I had thought that it may be naturally aerating with the wind. It's also where, when there is enough water, that the water flows into the pond from the north. In the warm months that's where all the fish tend to be. I'm running enough power down to run a second air pump if needed though for that section.

The area near my dock needs it, no doubt about that. I've been seeing conflicting accounts on if aerating a small amount of a pond will help or hurt. I'm hoping it will help. About 2 winters ago we had a pretty large fish kill with the nasty winter we had and the bass still haven't recovered.

My neighbor that owns the southern end of the pond says if it turns out well around the dock that he will consider putting a system in his end. That's the deep end. We're also talking about modifying the exit pipe that goes through the southern dam so that it draws water from the bottom instead of the top.

In winter I believe some air is better than nothing when it comes to keeping your pond open and from freeze over! I also think your correct in saying that you should put your system for the summer time in the deepest areas first. Remember though in winter you only really want your system in about 1/3 your depth just to keep a large area open. So say in about 3 feet of water. I would think that would help those fish in time of need when everything is froze over and has snow on it all!!

RC

Dug a trench going to the pond, and I've now got 20 amp service.

Air pump came, and it's all set up, I set it up with 3 gas valves, on a gas manifold. (I got the idea for the gas manifold on this forum.) I also used flexible tubing to go from the pump to the manifold. It's all currently in a cooler, until I can build a better enclosure.

This is what the set up looks like:
[img]http://imgur.com/a/IcS5T[/img]

My sinking air line wont be here until Monday, so I ran one diffuser out on a temp line just to test it. Looked like it was working pretty well. A lot of turnover of the water, and It smelled like rotten eggs. Once I get all the diffusers in on the sinking line I'll taper the start up of them as to not kill off all the fish. I'm sure the only fish that would survive would be the bullhead.

I'll add some pictures of the setup soon.

I have an older pond and am working on a pad near the pond for a barn we will have built soon (with electric). My pond is a bit over an acre and about 12 feet deep maximum. I have had 2 partial winter kills in the last 15 years and want to add the minimum aeration that will likely make another winter kill unlikely. Would a single diffuser likely work? What type would be best, and would putting it under the floating dock also help with possible ice damage to the dock (none yet after 15 years though). What minimum size compressor might work? I am looking for durability, low operating cost, and low noise. My plan would be to invest in quality to reduce later costs. Any help or reference to web info is appreciated. This will likely be a 2017 project after the barn and electric are installed. Since I have only had winter kills, My plan would be to run this system only when ice cover is on.

Single diffuser would work, if you don't push the limit on biomass, but since it is an older pond it all depends on the amount of organic build-up you have. I would plan on running 2 different diffusers/stones to play it safe. Air stones will create larger bubbles for more "wave" action. 1/4-1/3 hp compressor, put whatever you use to make bubbles at 4' water depth. I don't like using stones for summer use, as I believe they make larger bubbles and don't move as much water as rubber membrane diffusers. I would still place them close enough to shore so that anything that goes into the cold pond water can walk out of the pond.

You won't have problems with ice and the pier. The family has had a fixed pier on a lake (S-SW corner) since the late '60's without any protection from ice and never had a problem.

It all depends on how much of a gambler you are. Save money and use one, maybe pay what you saved to replace fish that die?

Thanks for the info. I'll look up aeration stones. I have not replaced fish after the past kills. Just let the survivors repopulate. P.S. Do any of these compressors list Db levels for noise? Are the piston pumps best?

In my research, linear pumps looked good for shallow water up to about 6-8ish feet and rotary vane pumps looked better for a little bit deeper, 6-12ish, which is why I went with rotary vane.

Good Luck!

I'm running linear pumps at 9' but that is pushing the limit. Their flow drops off a lot at that depth. I think on the box it said 11' maximum depth but the flow would be approaching zero in my opinion.

At shallow depths the linear pumps can not be matched for electrical efficiency. Less so as the depths increase (because of the lower volume of air produced relative to the electrical use). They are very quiet (at least the ones I use). I think their life before rebuild would be significantly shorter than a vane pump but I have not yet owned a vane pump so don't know. I get about a season and a half or two before having to put new diaphragms in the Pondmaster pumps I am running (running 24-7 May through November usually).

I think long term the vane pumps are probably the best choice. I started with one linear pump as an experiment and built from there. I suspect some day I will replace the three that are running in my main pond with one single vane and a manifold. One thing I thought might be an advantage of the 3 pumps over one is that I could have more flexibility in shutting off part and only running one at times early or late in the season (to cut electrical usage). In actual practice I have never done that though so has not been an advantage.

That is my experience to date with the linear pumps. I run 4 continuously for two season and a little bit more(three pumps in big pond, one split between forage and sediment ponds).

I will look into the linear pumps since it looks like 4 feet deep is the target for keeping a hole open in ice. This will also hopefully keep the hole near the shore so escape from the water is easier. I would be concerned about diaphragm replacement though. I like low maintenance.

Don't skimp on the hose, I wouldn't run less than 1/2" or 5/8" ID.

I should be able to bury some large diameter poly pipe down to the pond. I saw one inexpensive 7" diameter stone diffuser, but it only has a 1/4" inlet. The weighted hose should only need to be <25 feet long. Should this be 1/2"? I was thinking that with the 1/4" fitting on the stone, 3/8" might be over-sized enough.

Attached is a test of one of the diffusers with the temp air hose. My dog doesn't know what to think of it.

Also attached are photos of the pond.

RAH I have never used a linear pump in the winter but as I recall Cecil had one he thought the rubber diaphragm got stiff in the cold and led to its failure. Not positive on that though.

If you are going to run one in the winter, I might actually think of insulating the enclosure to hold some heat in so the pump does not get excessively cold. Hold in some of the heat generated by the motor.

Just a thought.

I just wonder if a linear pump is really best for my application. Maybe a piston pump would be better for intermittent winter use?

I can't tell from pictures what is that all over your pond? Is that surface algae or are them weeds coming up from the bottom?

Air looks good by the way!!

RC

Have you looked into linear piston pumps? Very quiet and no diaphragm to fail.

Now those look perfect! Anyone have a downside to linear piston compressors for supplying a shallow stone diffuser to keep ice open in winter?

http://www.thepondreport.com/store/linear-piston-air-pumps

Thanks.

Mostly American Pond weed. Some milfoil in the pond as well. and possibly coon tail. I use a weed razor and a weed rake to clear around my dock. My neighbor uses a tractor implement that he made to clear his half of the pond. It's a long boom with a york rake on the end. Pretty cool.

For winter use only for opening ice, what type of diffuser is least likely to clog or need maintenance if left in the pond year round? I have seen membranes, stones, and bubble hoses online, as well as homemade ones.

I put the other 2 diffusers in the pond today. One about 50 feet north of the dock, and one about 50 feet south of the dock.

I used matala sinking tubing, worked very good and dropped right to the bottom.

The area around my dock got pretty stinky pretty quickly. I turned it off after a bit and I was noticing bubbles coming up from all around my dock area. Not super fast or anything, but defiantly noticeable. I'm assuming the muck on the bottom has begun getting some oxygen.

The Gast pump is humming along, and I'm surprised how quiet it is. I haven't built it's enclosure yet, but I'll work on something this weekend. I'm thinking some soffit vents in the cooler will work for now, over the winter I'll build something nice for it in the garage.

Anyone have experience with Medo linear piston compressors?

cfy - What diffuser did you choose, and why did you choose it?

I went with Matala mdb11 diffusers with the base from:

http://www.aquaticponds.com/Matala-Single-Air-Diffuser-and-Base-Kit_p_1248.html

I picked these because somewhere on this forum it said they had lower back pressure than the vertex, and also I liked how they're modular. They sell parts to connect multiples together if you want, so in the future I can change the system around as I expand it. 2 MDB11's can turn into a MDB22.

I had never used aquaticponds.com before, but they shipped right away and it turned out well.

Thanks. The only review claims less loading (I assume that means clogging) than an airstone. That is interesting. I do not need such small bubbles but less maintenance is very important to me.

Do you want least maintenance or largest hole in the winter? That is an either or question.

Less maintenance is probably my priority (and hope the hole is large enough -if not, add another deffuser). I am working on a 100 acre habitat restoration project! I estimate completion in about 300 years...

Least maintenance is a membrane diffuser. If you think you might need 2 diffusers, make sure the pump can furnish at least 3 CFM at the depth that you will have the diffusers placed at. The diffusers don't need that CFM to work, but the more air you shove thru them the larger the hole they will keep open.

How do the membrane diffusers compare to the weighted bubble tubes?

The flat membrane diffusers don't have blow-outs like the tube diffusers do. Ted Lea had a good example of a blow-out.

Thank you. It looks like a linear piston compressor and a membrane diffuser would be best for my winter ice needs while minimizing maintenance. Now I just need to size things right and choose good manufacturers. I have some 2" poly pipe to run air from the barn to the pond, so there should be minimal pressure loss there. The run into the pond to get to 4' of water will be less than 25' so oversizing the weighted line should be a minimal expense. Now we just need to finish the barn pad and get quotes on the barn. BTW - The dirt for the pond pad is coming from another wetland that we are constructing. It will take the runoff from the barn roof as well as being fed with field tiles.

I did a "survey" of the pond with my underwater camera today.

In about 1.5 hours I saw plenty of small perch around the dock, even hanging out on the bottom. Also tons of minnows all around the top of the water near the dock. Also some sunfish scattered around. This is where the aeration is now. I went back and fished it for a while later last night as well, and caught a couple decent perch.

Towards the northern dam I found some perch near the top of the water, and some bullhead near the top. Nothing hanging out on the bottom.

Towards the southern dam, I didn't find much. I looked at a lot of the bottom down there, but there was nothing. I'm assuming there is no oxygen due to the thermocline. If I had a thermometer I could drop down to the bottom I could see the temp. I've thought about dropping my dive computer down there since it records temp.

So my completely unscientific result?
-Most of the fish I saw were near the dock. I think they like the aerators. They're hanging out on the bottom, and they couldn't do that if there wasn't air down there.

No bass anywhere I'm seeing. I don't know where they're all hiding. 2 years ago I was catching a bunch of perfect pond bass, not too big, and not too small. Last summer and this summer, haven't caught any. The odd thing is though, I haven't seen any evidence of a fish kill. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but I just haven't seen it.

I'm seeing a lot of minnows all over the place, and small sunfish so I believe there is a good base of forage fish. Next spring I'm planing on building a cage in the pond and attempting to cage stock some bass.

Interestingg observation.

Do you have any structure for the fish to congregate around? If not an interesting experiment would be drop something in place where there were no fish. Go back a couple weeks later and see if the fish moved there.

Fish like to associate with structure.

What do folks think about the advice given in this link on homemade course-bubble diffusers for ice control.

http://www.thepondreport.com/questions/92/how-to-build-a-dock-bubbler-or-ice-eater-for-my-dock

or would this be a safer bet?

https://www.amazon.com/Plenum-Coarse-Bubble-Diffuser-1-ft/dp/B003LYD8M4#feature-bullets-btf

RAH along with the Pondmaster pumps I bought came a plastic manifold. It is made to go from the 3/4 outlet of the pump to a dozen small aquarium size air tubes. It is used where one of these pumps are used to aeriate multiple small aquariums.

It has 3/4 barb, about 6 or 8" long, with a double row of hose barbs for aquarium tubing. It is made to distribute 3 CFM or so out to twelve small lines.

I would think if you ran it in reverse it would work for your ice diffuser. In other words run your input to the 3/4" side and let air come out the dozen holes (maybe 1/8" or 3/16", never measured one).

I think if you buy one of these from a pond supply store thay are 12 or 15 dollars but I have at least 4 of them and have never used them and likely never will.

Here...........found it. Danner replacement manifold

If this looks like it would work for you, I would be glad to drop it in a postal envelope and send you one. No charge. Tie a brick or block on it for ballast so it would sink.

Thank you for the offer. We are still building the pad on which the barn will be built to house the compressor (once we get electric service run from the transformer). Then I need to trench the line from the barn to the pond. I am just trying to get info right now. Who knows, I may get hit by a truck before I get this done... I am pretty set on a linear piston pump, and will use weighted line, but am still trying to understand the best coarse-bubble diffuser. There are some pretty small diameter (3-4") disc diffusers that are meant for wastewater agitation, and some are very inexpensive. I just am not sure on sizing to match the compressor.

Not really. Wouldn't be a bad idea though. Ive got a bunch of old concrete blocks I could make a pile or two with.

If you look on the Mfg's web sight there will likely be a specifications page for the diffuser you are interested in. It should give a range of acceptable flow rates in either CFM or LPM (liters per minute).

I have been trying to match the compressor output at 4' depth with coarse-bubble wastewater disc diffuser operating range. I just have not seen the setup I am thinking of used for de-icing described by anyone, which is a bit concerning. The diffusers are pretty cheap, so I will probably just give it a try. The weighted bubble tubing is pretty pricey. This is an example of the compressor I am considering:

http://www.123ponds.com/ml100.html

And here is a diffuser:

https://www.zoro.com/atlantic-diffusers-...mp;gclsrc=aw.ds

I bought some fish feed from TSC 2 days ago. Went down to the dock in the evening and tossed it out, not much action. I left the aerator on overnight for the first time that night.

Yesterday evening I went down with my camera, 4 inch to 8 inch perch everywhere, along with a few bullhead and a few small sunfish.

I threw out some feed and the water started to boil. No idea what was taking it but something was.

Over the next hour a lot of fish were showing up on the camera.

I think the fish like the aeration!

Put together a temporary compressor house. I wanted it high enough that it will stick out of the snow most years. I'm still planning on buying a fan and putting it on the bottom so it will suck in cool air from below and force it out the top. There is plenty of room in the box for a second pump.

I put my meter on the pump. It's only using 236 watts. I was very surprised by this. I thought it was going to be using closer to 400 watts, but that must be what the pump requires to start up.

I used 5/8 irrigation hose to run from the manifold to the sinking line. I've left all 3 runs of sinking line at the full 100 feet so that I can move them around until I find the best location for the diffusers.

I've been feeding the fish every night for a week now off my dock. Apparently I have all the bullhead feed trained now. Go me. I fished for an hour last night and caught 7 of them and some perch.

I also picked up a cast net. Ive caught tons of golden shiners all around the pond. Some of them have been the size of my hand. Bigger than any pumpkinseed I've caught in a while. I think this should be good once I stock more bass into the pond.

cfy7, I'm sure the irrigation hose is fine, although when I made my cabinet, the late, great Ted Lea suggested (due to the heat) that I use heater hose at the manifold, extending out of the cabinet, then to the weighted tubing. And to also insulate where the tubing exits the cabinet to prevent wear on the tubing due to any vibration.

And again on Ted's suggestion, my fan is drawing air from rear vent across the pump.

This might help explain:

Nice setup Keith.

The small BG in my pond really like the aeration. We have seen scores of them around and floating up in the middle of the bubble column.

Also see predators taking advantage of them. I was fishing from the bank last evening about sundown. Every once in a while would see a big swirl right next to the bubble column. I suspect a LMB was getting its supper.

Keith -

Where did you get that little fan? I've been tying to find something just like that that runs on AC.

Very nice looking setup.

Thanks, guys, the whole cabinet has held up and worked very well for me for 4 1/2 years, running 24/7/365.

I got the (240v) fan from Ted Lea. If my CRS doesn't kick in I'll get some info off of it when I get home and pass it on.

Ebay has several similar fans with A/C cords in both the 120v and 220v variety, most shipping from hong kong or China.

Here are the 120v options:

120 cooling fan with plug

You can search for 220V fan plug on ebay and get lots of hits

You might also google "muffin fan"

Perfect! Thanks.