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#454861 08/26/16 02:55 PM
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Quick question. Check out this BG we caught yesterday. Can you tell if its is regular BG? I stocked on July 8th. That is 7 weeks today. They have been on optimal BG since a week after they were stocked. They were stocked as 2-4" fish. We catch quite a few that look like they have not eaten much...most are about an inch shorter than this one with fat little bellies. Do you think this could be a stocked fish...or one of the bucket fish from last year? There were a few the kids put in last year. I know its been eating...its belly was THICK...you can kind of see it in the pic. I wish the pic was better but thats all I have for reference. Fish was beautifully colored and WELL fed. lol.

[img:center][/img]


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Looks an awful lot like a green sunfish that has been eating well.



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Good looking fish but it ain't no BG. That is a beloved GSF.

It does have some vertical bars so it is possible there could be a little BG genes making it a HBG, but it looks GSF to me.

They are chow hounds. If there is free food aka pellets, they will be there.

Edit: I don't hardly ever see the vertical bars on mine but there are pictures of GSF with them. USGS GSF

Here is one in spawning colors that shows bars.
GSF

Last edited by snrub; 08/26/16 03:07 PM.

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Here a couple of my larger GSF I caught out of my old pond a few days ago for comparison. I put them back to grow bigger. Anything under 7" I clip the tail off with scissors and put them back for LMB food. Any GSF over 7" that looks good and healthy I put back to grow.

In case you want to read up on them here are some links to old threads.

GSF

100% GSF

I have got to where they are not the menace I once thought they were as long as they do not get established too early in a newly stocked pond. I actually have been putting a few in my main pond (but the BG and LMB are well established). I kind of like them but then I like to fish for pan fish.




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Last edited by snrub; 08/26/16 04:09 PM.

John

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Okay, that makes sense then. It didn't look right to me. I could see bars for sure...but then the mouth head and body shape were off. What else should I look for as we catch them? I have heard from many on here that GSF are as you said a menace. Why is this?? I'm guessing since I have them I'll be keeping them. How do they eat? If they are good all will be well. lol.

Thanks guys!


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Good to eat but do not get big as BG. Fight hard for their size. Have mouths the same size as LMB the same length so compete for forage like a small LMB would.

Northern guys seem to hate them worse than southern. As long as you have adult LMB for predators from what I have read and am experiencing in my own old pond they are not much of a problem.

If you get some that establish very early in the stocking process their large mouth and agressive behavior can really mess up a stocking plan. That is where in my opinion they can be a real problem.


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If you read that thread 100% GSF link that I gave that was what happened in my old pond. The GSF got established before my BG and LMB.

In my case I had my main pond 1/8th mile away and I just caught advanced size BG and LMB and stocked fish big enough the GSF could not eat. My old pond is doing fine now. I catch some GSF but mostly BG and the entire pond seems to be doing fine. Had I stocked only 2" BG and LMB likely the GSF would have just eaten them, reproduced, and I would have a pond full of stunted GSF and been very unhappy.

Had I not had access to larger fish to stock they would have been a problem. As long as your BG are as big as the GSF and their numbers are low you likely will not have any problem.

Last edited by snrub; 08/26/16 09:25 PM.

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Hey snrub, thanks for all that!! I have read some stuff now and I'm thinking they will not be so bad. I do have some LMB stocked...maybe 15 or 20 when I stocked the BG, RES, and FHM back in July. I did lose some though. I stocked 25...I think the next morning I counted I know 5 in the area where I stocked them. I was thinking of getting 25 more this fall. What do you think? I may go to my uncles and get a few 9-12" LMB. Would that be a good idea? My main thing is I don't want the GSF hurting my BG pop. But at the same time after catching that little guy...I'm thinking they would be fun for kids. From what I have read in your posts...in the south with LMB I shouldn't have a big problem with them. Kind of aggravates me that they are taking feed from my BG though. lol.


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GSF only spawn annually but aren't real effective spawners. BG and CNBG have a rolling spawn as long as the warm weather lasts.

I have a 1/4 (sometimes 1/3 acre) that is loaded with them due to no predators. When I seine it, I don't hesitate to put them in the bigger pond. Being more fusiform than the BG, they seem to be the preferred prey for my bass.


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They are taking feed from your BG AND from you LMB. Look at the size of their mouth, now look at a LMB that has a mouth that same size. The GSF will eat a ton of little YOY fish just like a smaller LMB would.

I've seen a pond without a top end predator that had GSF, RES YP, GSH and FHM. There was no recruitment from anything except the GSF, they ate all the other YOY.

If you are putting/will have LMB in the pond, just toss any of the GSF that you catch on the bank for the coons to eat, or clean them. Once the LMB get established, then the GSF won't be a top end predator any more and many will be eaten by the LMB.


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Thanks guys. Guess I'll give the LMB a boost then. I put some in when I stocked (3-4") back in July...so probably not doing anything yet. I'll go catch some 9-12" from my uncles. He shouldn't care. Will they be big enough now to put a dent in them? Its a 1-1.25 acre pond...so do not want to get to many in there. Maybe 10 or so??


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I'm not going to comment on adding more LMB being a good idea or not because I do not know. Too many LMB can be a problem also if you do not have enough forage base to support them.

As mentioned above, I clip the tail fins off the ones I catch and put them back in for LMB food. I've done this to a few hundred GSF and have yet to catch one again with a clipped tail. So I am assuming this makes them an easy target for LMB to eat. If I start catching lots of GSF with clipped tails some day, I may have to reevaluate. So far so good.

I've observed fish with no tail while scuba diving in the ocean. They still manage to swim around and feed, but the way they swim resembles the motion of a crank bait and they kind of beat the water when they swim. This makes it very difficult to evade predators. The one tail-less fish I observed for several weeks in one spot (Sand Tilefish - lives in a burrow in rubble) was gone the next year when I looked for it. I imagine a predator finally got it.

To me the fish food that I throw out that the GSF eat does not get wasted that way. It just gets recycled into LMB. Takes about 10 seconds to clip the tail off with scissors. If you really want the LMB to get them more quickly you can also clip the top spikes and/or other fins. They really swim erratic then. But it takes a little more time and effort. The tail fin makes them loose most of their ability for speed.

I don't know what size bass you have but you would only want to do this to GSF that are within the size your bass could eat. Anything too large for the LMB do as Esshup says and feed them to the coons.

Last edited by snrub; 08/29/16 12:00 PM.

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I wouldn't put any more LMB in just yet, let the BG you just stocked get bigger first.



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The bass I stocked were 3-4" when purchased July 8th. I stocked 25, but I know at least 5 were dead the next morning. Now I haven't seen anymore after that initial day...so I'm assuming they are still there. I'm sure the GSF came from the kids buckets from creeks and neighboring ponds. If all I read is true the LMB will eventually catch up to them. I just don't want them to screw up my BG and RES I have been putting feed into. I am seeing my second round of bream beds now...hopefully they will get to do their thing this time!


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If you add more LMB use 6 - 8 inch LMB and don't add but a few (10 or less).
















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Thanks guys...will probably do as ewest has said. Maybe by the end of the week. Will also be clipping tails as snrub said. Bet it will all work out.


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Okay guys...one of my daughters and I started clipping yesterday. It was late but caught three. Cut the main fin off the rear, and the spiny dorsals. I need some smaller hooks and some more worms or crickets. They tear crickets up. We have had army worms in our hay lately...we did get it up...but still find some...they are GREAT bait also...and it makes you feel good to throw them little terrors in the pond and see them GULPED up! Maybe today we are going to catch 8 or so 8-10" lmb. I have seen two BG spawns since I stocked in July, and since the rains we have alot of water primrose that has come up for cover. I think between us catching and few small LMB, the GSF shouldn't be a problem next year. Will try to post some more pics later.


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The GSF seem to hug the bank till they get up to five or six inches. Then I will catch them out in deeper water. But drag the bait about a foot or two out from shore to catch lots of small GSF.

Also John F got me started on Gulp Alive baits. The small waxies or grubs work great and can usually catch several fish before the bait is gone unlike live bait that seems to get sucked off the hook every time. Small bait and small hook, or I actually like a small jig hook (1/32 oz or smaller) as the fish do not seem to swallow the jigs as bad as regular hooks.

The Gulp Alive baits significantly up the catch rate simply by not having to re-bait the hook as often.

I also mash the barb down so fish are more easily released. Also ups the catch rate by letting the hook be removed easily so I'm back to fishing instead of fighting to get a hook out. One flips off once in a while, but at least if I catch something I want to release unharmed the fish does not get torn up trying to get a stubborn hook out.

Good luck and have fun!

Last edited by snrub; 09/02/16 10:17 PM.

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Thanks snrub.

Caught 8 lmb last night and released them. They weren't as small as I hoped...biggest topping out at 12"...there was one other around 11". The other 6 were between 8 and 10" We will see what takes place. I walked the bank before work this morning and no one was floating belly up, so I think they all made the transition. They come from my uncles gravel pit. They are healthy but not fat. He doesn't have much of a forage fish population but they have other things to eat. He has told me about some "crawdad looking thing" that doesn't have much of a shell at all. I haven't seen them, but hope to get some and some pics for you guys to id. Maybe something I want to start in my pond. He said they are EVERYWHERE. I'm thinking the GSF are fixing to make the slender bass very happy. I really hope they leave my BG alone but who knows. Hopefully I get some GSF control, 8 really fat LMB, and a BG population that thrives. HAHAHA...I'm sure it ALWAYS goes the way we plan! cry


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Couple more quick questions. Would the addition of the 8 small LMB have an effect on GSF and BG feeding habits? Seems the morning after I put the bass in, I'm seeing alot less activity. Still active...but not as much splashing and almost being playful it would seem. Do the others know already the LMB are in there...do they sense them? Just curious. Also, do GSF and BG stay in the same areas? I have one area that we catch GSF all the time. This is also the same area that when feeding we have the most activity and biggest splashes. Would assume these are mostly GSF. They hang around where I first started training, where the feed ring is. I also feed up in the shallows where I have seen BG beds most abundantly this year. The splashes are smaller there...abundant but smaller. That would make me thing those are my BG that were stocked back on July 8. Just curious on habits and things you guys have seen with those two. I would really like to know if they knew the 8 8-12" LMB were put in, and thats why they have become a little shy.

Anyways, thanks again guys, was also able to clip some more GSF fins this weekend. Who knows...those bass out of the gravel pit may gain a whole lot before winter. lol.


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Caught a few GSF today, clipped fins...also got what I'm thinking is one of our BG we stocked on July 8th. They were 2-3" when stocked. Let me know if I'm right...I'm thinking GSF top....BG bottom. I'm not for sure how to figure relative weight or anything...It is for sure bigger than they were two months ago. Although the GSF are the ones that are really plumping up. Caught them both in the places I thought they would be. Going to back off my feed around the ring and concentrate around where the BG are...going to keep feeding the GSF...just not as heavily. They'll probably move...but maybe not. lol. Not great pics...but my lovely wife was very patient as I tried to keep these two still so I could post pics...ran them back down to the pond in a bucket to fight another day. Am I thinking right on what they are?? How is the size of the BG for being stocked two months ago at 2-3". Been on optimal BG for about a month and half now.

Thanks guys!

[img:left][/img]

[img:left][/img]


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GSF top and BG bottom in both pictures.

Yes, once you introduce predators you will see the small fish hug the bank or whatever cover you have for them. They will quickly know a new sheriff is in town. If not they will be gone.

I catch most of my smaller GSF (under 6") close in near the bank. For some reason the smaller GSF like shallow water. After they get bigger then I will catch them out where the larger BG are in deeper water. In my old pond if I cast out 10-20' from the bank and reel in I will catch BG and the occasional GSF. But if I specifically want to catch a small GSF I will just drag the bait along the bank within a foot or two of the bank.

GSF will just completely gorge themselves with feed. They will look like their bellies will explode. In my minnow traps the BG you can tell have eaten but the GSF and BH will just be stuffed full of feed. They are pigs.


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I agree GSF (mostly) top - BG bottom.
















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Thanks guys. That's what I see too. Maybe I can get a pic of the belly one some of those guys!!! Its pitiful. Looks like a they have watched college football all day!! That's what I would look like anyways.

ewest...you say mostly...what else do you see? The first pic I posted I got that response also. What else do you see and can you elaborate. I'm really trying to learn the subtle differences. My kids think its amazing that all the little fish are not bream and perch anymore...lol.

How about the growth of the BG. Does it look ok?


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They look like GSF but studies indicate that it can be hard to find pure GSF populations and knowing for sure requires DNA testing. With BG and GSF in the mix it is hard to be 100% sure.
















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