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ewest #453051 07/29/16 08:11 AM
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Interesting read Eric. I had a couple of minutes to play with the Optimal Bass last night. First thing that struck me was the smell. It's not like any fish food I've ever dealt with before. Rather than the fish smell of the old Aquamax it had a stink bait, or blood bait smell to it. It also had the fish oil smell, but not as strong as the stink bait smell. I did throw it out to my feed trained redears and they hammered it. So that was good to see. And it did continue to float indefinitely. I was a bit surprised that it didn't look as big as expected. If Aquamax 600 is 6mm and this is 9mm, it sure didn't seem to my eye that much bigger. But I didn't have any AM600 on hand to compare to.

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NEDOC you said the bass food floated indefinitely. Does anyone else have the problem where the standard Optimal doesn't float very long? Seems like mine floats for maybe a minute and then sinks. Not that that is so terrible as some of my fish prefer to wait till it is lower in the water column before taking it, but I didn't know if a food advertised as 'floating' floats even when hydrated (indefinitely) or if that word can be used if it just floats 'initially' for a while.

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Yes I do have that 'problem' with Optimal Bluegill. Or at least I have with my second and third bag. I did not have that problem with the first bag. 5-10% sinks slowly upon hitting the water. The rest begins to sink after a minute or two. And I've come to like it that way better. I'll test Optimal BG Jr. this weekend and see how it does.

As far as the Optimal Bass floating, I didn't hydrate any and try it. I may if I get a chance. But some of it floated several minutes beyond when the Optimal BG went below the surface. Hard to tell though because I have so many FHMs hitting both types of pellets that they eventually get pulled under by them or eaten by larger redears.

Last edited by NEDOC; 07/29/16 12:49 PM.

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
NEDOC you said the bass food floated indefinitely. Does anyone else have the problem where the standard Optimal doesn't float very long? Seems like mine floats for maybe a minute and then sinks. Not that that is so terrible as some of my fish prefer to wait till it is lower in the water column before taking it, but I didn't know if a food advertised as 'floating' floats even when hydrated (indefinitely) or if that word can be used if it just floats 'initially' for a while.

For the most part the Optimal bluegill feed floats when I throw it in. Even after 30 or more seconds but it rarely lasts that long.

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slow sink


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NEDOC #453061 07/29/16 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Yes I do have that 'problem' with Optimal Bluegill. Or at least I have with my second and third bag. I did not have that problem with the first bag. 5-10% sinks slowly upon hitting the water. The rest begins to sink after a minute or two. And I've come to like it that way better. I'll test Optimal BG Jr. this weekend and see how it does.

As far as the Optimal Bass floating, I didn't hydrate any and try it. I may if I get a chance. But some of it floated several minutes beyond when the Optimal BG went below the surface. Hard to tell though because I have so many FHMs hitting both types of pellets that they eventually get pulled under by them or eaten by larger redears.


Where did you find the Jr at?


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I ordered a couple of bags of Optimal BG and attempted to order Optimal JR. Its not in commercial production yet but they were kind enough to send a sample.


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Originally Posted By: BrianL
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Yes I do have that 'problem' with Optimal Bluegill. Or at least I have with my second and third bag. I did not have that problem with the first bag. 5-10% sinks slowly upon hitting the water. The rest begins to sink after a minute or two. And I've come to like it that way better. I'll test Optimal BG Jr. this weekend and see how it does.

As far as the Optimal Bass floating, I didn't hydrate any and try it. I may if I get a chance. But some of it floated several minutes beyond when the Optimal BG went below the surface. Hard to tell though because I have so many FHMs hitting both types of pellets that they eventually get pulled under by them or eaten by larger redears.


Where did you find the Jr at?


Brian,

I'll trade you some Optimal jr. for the other bag of food that you were going to give me. Esshup sent me some samples recently.

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Originally Posted By: Chris Steelman
Originally Posted By: BrianL
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
Yes I do have that 'problem' with Optimal Bluegill. Or at least I have with my second and third bag. I did not have that problem with the first bag. 5-10% sinks slowly upon hitting the water. The rest begins to sink after a minute or two. And I've come to like it that way better. I'll test Optimal BG Jr. this weekend and see how it does.

As far as the Optimal Bass floating, I didn't hydrate any and try it. I may if I get a chance. But some of it floated several minutes beyond when the Optimal BG went below the surface. Hard to tell though because I have so many FHMs hitting both types of pellets that they eventually get pulled under by them or eaten by larger redears.


Where did you find the Jr at?


Brian,

I'll trade you some Optimal jr. for the other bag of food that you were going to give me. Esshup sent me some samples recently.


Sounds good.


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Different fish species have different nutritional needs, and I'm not talking about protein/fat content. With that, it changes on the age of the fish. For instance, in an aquaculture setting, the food can be tailored even tighter to individual species of fish, and the age of the fish. In a pond setting, where there are multiple species and multiple age classes, not so much. Mostly because you cannot tell a fish what food to eat or not to eat.

What sets Optimal apart is the testing they do, and the amino acid/micro nutrients that they put in the food - and that's not on the label because it's proprietary information.

I have HSB specific food from Optimal that they made for a customer and an extra bag showed up on my doorstep. It floats for about 10-20 seconds, then slowly sinks. The HSB hammer it. I am feeding it to the HSB in the cage. I am (in my pond) mixing Optimal BG food with Optimal LMB food, about 50/50 and throwing it thru my Texas Hunter feeder.

The Optimal guys will be swinging by here later on this month and will be taking fish back with them for testing. Since I have not been feeding YP and HSB specific food to those species in my pond, the test results may be interesting. wink grin I have been feeding Optimal BG food for over a year in my pond, and the LMB food for about 6-8 weeks.

The Optimal Jr. food is tailored for smaller fish to get them the jump start they need to become great fish.

Optimal is a bit different than the other fish food companies. If you want a specific food for your fish, you CAN buy it. They will make individual production runs to cater to your individual needs. TJ, you want a larger feed, you can get it. If you can't purchase 20,000 pounds, you can purchase a smaller amount, but it will have to be priced accordingly. I was told that they can make a special run as small as 50 pounds from the small mill, but I was afraid to ask what that would cost. wink shocked laugh

I talked to Cray last month about LMB food, and I think he ordered from them. I was on the road and thought that instead of being the go-between, I would have him just call Optimal and he could ask and get answers asap. I hope he chimes in here with his observations.


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NEDOC #454004 08/14/16 08:39 PM
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below is a little info i got from dustin concerning optimal feed sinking, size, and such.

It's a bit hard to say what may have been different about your first bag. Was the first (more "fishy" smelling) feed in a blue bag by chance?

Any differences in float or color can really only be attributed to the feed mill. We are very happy with our bluegill formulation and absolutely do not alter it.

Although floating and sinking can be impacted by the formulation, it is largely controlled by extrusion parameters. Earlier this year, we started production in new feed mill with a higher capacity. I have heard some feedback that the initial feed was a bit darker and had a few more sinkers in it. Based on customer feedback, we've done some re-calibrating and I think we're where we want to be now.

All this being said, we can make small custom runs of single size pellets for people wanting up to 5 tons, but (of course) it comes with a higher price tag.


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Esshup I'm now on bag #4 of Optimal BG. I ordered one last fall, one earlier this spring (both white bags I believe) and now about 6 weeks ago I got 2 more in blue bags. The only bag that had the slow sinking feed was my second bag. At first it frustrated me that the feed slowly sank, and the fish seemed to not like it as much at first. By after a week or two I began to like it more and so did the fish!! So I have mixed emotions on which production line I liked most. The slow sinking feed (only 5-10% was slow sinking, the rest floated for quite a while) certainly seemed to help train some of my redears that were previously reluctant. So I liked that aspect of it. I wonder if the slow sinking feed may be more advantageous when dealing with redears and their feeding habits? An interesting thought I hadn't taken into consideration.


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I have been mixing my Optimal LM with my BG at about a 15-20% rate. It has worked well, as I'm hand feeding still I'm always there to see the reaction. I'm feeding pretty much all BG and RES right now. I stocked 25 LMB with them back in July but have yet to see any, which doesn't mean they are not there. All the feed is eaten. Sometimes the LMB feed gets hit then pops back up, but very rarely anymore. Mine is 100% float as much as I can tell, was bought in July, and is in a white bag. My daughters have been fishing during feeding time with a small hook and worms/bobbers so I can see the size difference. You can EASILY tell the difference in the ones that are feeding and the ones that are not. We caught a few that looked just about like they did when put in, then some bigger, one that stretched from one end of my palm to the other and had a very nice fat belly, and great color. Will get pics next time we do that.


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I received a sample of the LMB formula from essup today when I picked a bag of the BG formula, and the bass loved it. I saw no sinkers.( They ate it to fast!) I think next year I'll mix a ratio of the LMB and BG formula together so the bass wont eat all the smaller stuff.



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Originally Posted By: Mike Schmitt
I received a sample of the LMB formula from essup today when I picked a bag of the BG formula, and the bass loved it. I saw no sinkers.( They ate it to fast!) I think next year I'll mix a ratio of the LMB and BG formula together so the bass wont eat all the smaller stuff.


Mike, my HSB are throwing the LMB food out of the water when they come up to eat it.

It will be interesting to compare it to the Purina LMB food when you get it. Please post here how the fish in your pond eat the Purina LMB food. I don't know of anyone that has done a side by side comparison.


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Sure thing Scott, I am hoping to get it next week. (On order)



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I have done an unscientific comparison in my water hole between Purina LMB, and the Optimal Bass Food. My pond is just under an acre and I am currently feeding the Optimal bluegill feed in it 3 times a day, 8am, 6 and 8pm all for 13 seconds. I fed the LMB and SMB by hand between 4-5 pm. It took a few feedings for the LMB and a few SMB to decide if they wanted to try the Purina or not. When they did, they ate it aggressively. If I overused the Purina, some BG would peck at it, and it would become waste and sink to the bottom. Additionally, I could never use the Purina in my feeder due to it's size, it won't throw it. There was also an exceptional amount of dust/waste in the bag too.
The Optimal when feed was immediately eaten by LMB, SMB, and larger BG. The bass would just eat more pellets as they do with the Optimal BG food I am feeding in my feeder. There was very little waste compared to the Purina. On a side note, I have just noticed that actually my water quality has been better this year. In past years I have fed Aquamax 400,500 and 600 while struggling with feed dust in the bottom of my feeder and watching it on the top of the water create a film. I probably could reduce the dust/waste easily before putting the feed in the feeder.
After watching this, I will use up my Purina LMB this year, and next year mix the Optimal LMB and BG feeds to become a more efficient feed. Thanks to Essup for the sample of Optimal Bass food!



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Mike as much as you are feeding the feed that sinks might go to waste as you say.

But if you have hungry BG I suspect it gets eaten after sinking. I have purposely dropped a pile of sinking 32% catfish food to the bottom and watched with an Aqua-Vu camera. It has been my observation that BG actually prefer to eat feed from mid water or off the bottom than going to the surface for it. We only feed floating feed so we can observe the fish eating and see that it is eaten, not because it is the place the fish prefer to eat. When I stand on the dock feeding I often see a larger BG take a pellet after it has sunk into the water 6" but because I am standing there and they can see me they will not take it off the surface. They stay just deep enough to stay out of my sight.

I throw out some Aquamax LMB pellets sometimes along with my other feed. I don't have any LMB that take it as far as I know. But the BG will hit it and hit it till it softens enough for them to tear it apart and eat it or if it sinks I am certain they do not let it go to waste on the bottom. If they do not get it eaten a CC will. Often times on the surface the BG hit it till a CC comes along and takes it away from them. Of course if you do not have CC you don't have a cleanup crew other than maybe turtles. Which I have a bunch of feed trained turtles also that I am sure would take feed off the bottom should they find it.

I doubt if your LMB pellets sit wasted on the bottom, unless you are really feeding to saturation.

If you are feeding more food than they can consume, or if you are feeding in deep water with no aeration so there is a thermocline and anoxic water where the feed drops into, it might go to waste.

Last edited by snrub; 09/03/16 01:57 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Mike Schmitt
On a side note, I have just noticed that actually my water quality has been better this year. In past years I have fed Aquamax 400,500 and 600 while struggling with feed dust in the bottom of my feeder and watching it on the top of the water create a film. I probably could reduce the dust/waste easily before putting the feed in the feeder.


Mike:

Just like feeding high quality dog food, the more it can be metabolized by the fish, the less goes out the other end, and the less "pooper scooper" duty you have. In a pond that equates to less stuff to grow plants/algae.

I've heard some numbers tossed around and you'd be amazed at how much goes out the other end........


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NEDOC #455339 09/03/16 05:58 PM
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Just a note re pricing:

The difference between online sites has disappeared. Either way, with shipping to my address, it comes to $50 a bag for BG Optimal feed.


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i have tried the lmb optimal pellets. i am curious how you all keep your bg from eating it, or maybe i was sent a sample of some that wasnt as large as you alls. as soon as i throw it the bg eat it instantly.

i have been using a few aquamax pellets this week and my bass are taking them pretty good. i have to hand feed them since they are too large for the feeder to throw.

i still can't get any locally, but thanks to a member here for sharing some of his. thanks bing.


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Originally Posted By: scott69
i have tried the lmb optimal pellets. i am curious how you all keep your bg from eating it, or maybe i was sent a sample of some that wasnt as large as you alls. as soon as i throw it the bg eat it instantly.

i have been using a few aquamax pellets this week and my bass are taking them pretty good. i have to hand feed them since they are too large for the feeder to throw.

i still can't get any locally, but thanks to a member here for sharing some of his. thanks bing.


Sounds frustrating. But it's not a total loss if the BG eat the LMB Optimal pellets: In the end, those BG will help feed the bass!

Last edited by anthropic; 09/04/16 01:54 AM.

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snrub,
The feeder I have has an adjustable output, so I have learned "back the output off a little and she will throw better." So I make sure the volume gets eaten in less than 2 minutes. I have noticed some bigger BG eating lower depth or when hand feed they will come up in the shade of my pier. As far as CC go, they are abundant. I believe they enjoyed the learning curve I had in the early days setting up my feeder. whistle On a more positive note, my homemade aeration system is going strong 4 years running with no problems.
I am curious why you don't notice any LMB go after the Auqamax pellets? Do you see them go after other pellets?



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Sounds like you have things going pretty darn good Mike.

Of all the fish in my pond it is the LMB that I am most disappointed in as far as reproduction goes. But first I have to admit that I rarely fish specifically for LMB. Having only been actively fishing regularly the past three years since we built this new pond, to date the BG and RES fishing interests me more than the LMB. I'm leaning towards some comments that Sprkplug and Shorty have made indicating that the LMB were more their trash fish there to control the BG population. grin

I have some very nice LMB estimated in the 4-6# range that friends catch occasionally and once in a great while I will catch one while fishing for BG. But I have yet to catch this year or last any 12" LMB or see any LMB fry swimming along the bank with the BG. I have an abundance of BG and in fact became worried enough this year of over population that we have removed about a hundred in the 6-8" range and ate them. Threw anything back over 8".

So I am questioning if my LMB are doing their job. All the ponds I am acquainted with in this area if left to their own devices will end up eventually LMB over populated with lots of small LMB. I keep waiting to start catching a bunch of small LMB while I'm fishing for BG but no luck.

So what I have been wondering is if the BG are so thick they are eating all the LMB fry and eggs or if my LMB are just not very prolific. This is the third year after stocking the LMB on September 2 2013 with 350 fingerlings in a 3 acre pond. I have lost a few and removed a few to move to my old pond, but with more than 100 per acre stocked I would think I should have had plenty of LMB.

It just puzzles me I'm not seeing any recruitment and also to address your question that I am not seeing at least a few LMB learning to hit the LMB pellets. The only reason I have the LMB pellets is that the feed dealer ordered in LMB pellets instead of the Aquamax MVP I ordered. I kept a couple bags to play with knowing the CC would eat them if nothing else would.

So that is my story on the LMB. Maybe I'm just too impatient. I built two small ponds and am raising extra forage in them in the anticipation that I would need it. Well quite the opposite so far as I have an abundance of forage and a shortage of LMB. Maybe that is a good problem to have, don't know. The LMB my friends catch seem to be fat and happy. But no pellet takers as far as I have seen.

Last edited by snrub; 09/04/16 09:24 AM.

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You have a unique issue! I wonder if maybe you have so many BG and CC that they depress bass reproduction & survival.

Anyway, if the LMB are fat & happy, and you have plenty of nice BG, you must be doing something right.


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