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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Lovnlivin.....absolutely. And those groups already exist. Is the continued use of conditioned, rather than learned, an attempt to keep fish away from closer scrutiny?
I have to go now, I can hear my sweet corn threatening my tomatoes over what they are calling a territorial violation. I need to grab a flashlight and get out there before the bell peppers throw in with one side or the other.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: May 2012
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Joined: May 2012
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Lovnlivin.....absolutely. And those groups already exist. Is the continued use of conditioned, rather than learned, an attempt to keep fish away from closer scrutiny?
I have to go now, I can hear my sweet corn threatening my tomatoes over what they are calling a territorial violation. I need to grab a flashlight and get out there before the bell peppers throw in with one side or the other. Hilarious, you do have a way with words, Spark! I love it! I will add one more on the conditioning, learning, etc. As a music lover I have music playing wherever I go and whatever I do, including while fishing. And as I'm a big blues fan I'm also a big fan of classic country (Merle, Willie, Waylon, etc.) so they both get equal playing time while fishing, via Pandora. By far my fish are most active with the blues playing and I've caught my best fish during songs by Keb Mo and BB King. Coincidence?
Keith - Still Lovin Livin https://youtu.be/o-R41Rfx0k0(a short video tribute to the PB members we met on our 5 week fishing adventure) Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Joined: Oct 2013
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I was diving one day in Bonaire and happened to be taking a video of something I forget what was and along comes a Spanish Hogfish. It smacks its tail pretty hard up against a purple tube sponge then swims off. Did not think much of it as certain fish "flash" against sponges to rid themselves of parasites. Kind of like a scratching post for an old cow.
But later on closer examination of the video and watching it several times the fish was not glancing off the sponge in a manner I would expect for flashing. It really "smacked" this sponge hard with it tail, enough to shake the sponge pretty hard. Then I also noticed the fish turned around enough to look at the opening at the top of the sponge.
Then it dawned on me. Very often in the center opening of these sponges live small goby fish and sometimes small shrimp and even small crabs. The Spanish Hog fish was smacking the sponge then seeing if it shook any critters loose it could gobble up, but seeing none moved on.
I've spent something on the order of 3000 hours under water over the last 45 years. I still see fish doing new stuff and it never ceases to amaze me.
Last edited by snrub; 07/23/16 11:20 PM.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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OP
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I know some here are familiar with the story of a pond in Texas where it was fished till they believed all lmb had been caught and tagged. After tagging what was believed were all the lmb. They were catching only tagged fish. The pond was drained and discovered only half of all the lmb had been caught. So, my understanding was they called these caught fish "stupid fish" because had been caught several times and the other fish were smart fish because they had not been caught. So, were they truly smart fish, I don't know but I am hoping to raise dumb fish @ my pond. Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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I agree with ewest's analysis. However I will throw this out there, just because it lingers on my mind.
What if the use of "conditioning" vs. "learning" is to dehumanize the subject? To remove any notion of intelligence? The reluctance to eat a thinking bluegill has already been mentioned above...what would happen were we to discover (admit?) that fish learned and could be taught?
How many have conditioned their dog to shake hands or roll over? Probably not, but we might've taught him or her to do these things. The use of the word taught implies to me, intelligence. Dogs are companions, loved members of our families, and in most cases at least, not on the dinner menu. Fish on the other hand, do not enjoy this luxury.
How would our perceptions, AND those of several infrastructures dedicated to fish and ponds, change? Maybe I'm chasing a sasquatch in the shadows, or maybe there's something to chasing the money...I just don't know. Is there not a lot of wildlife that could be thrown into that equation as well? Consider the "conditioning" or "learning" that goes on in zoo's. What if it were to be tried/tested/experimented on: Deer Elk Pheasant Turkey (or not, they're pretty dang dumb) Hogs Cows Al's chickens etc.,,,,, I can already see the forming of special interest groups demanding the end of consuming these "intelligent" animals! Keith, my chickens would probably skew any intelligence bell curve. Entertaining, but not very bright.
AL
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Joined: Jun 2008
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Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Al, my neighbor's chickens have figured out that coming next door to our house is a good way to get fed. And one strong willed hen has taken things a step further, and discovered that hopping up into the windowsill and peering through the glass at the occupants inside, is a surefire way to announce her presence. Kinda' creepy though when you "feel" that beady eye glaring at you. At last count we were on our 24th bag of feed, still waiting to eat that first egg. Pretty sure they've edged me out so far as intelligence goes.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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About 20+ years ago I got mad at crows for eating the corn in my demand type deer feeder about 100 yards from the house. They were going through 50 to 75 pounds per week. I bought a varmint calling tape with the sound of young crows with an owl chirping. Then I put an owl decoy on a post at the house and a couple of crows decoys under it. It took about 5 minutes for the flock of pretty raucous crows to show up. They dive bombed the owl decoy. However only 2 lit in the tree above the decoys. I dispatched a couple of them. I tried it later in the year and the crows responded but would come no closer than 100 yards. I tried it yearly for about 10 years with the same results. Same flock of crows? I don't know but I figure the crows must communicate. I really ought to try another location on the property but haven't messed with it.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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...At last count we were on our 24th bag of feed, still waiting to eat that first egg. Pretty sure they've edged me out so far as intelligence goes. Tony, my wife told me yesterday that I needed to get a swimming pool for the chickens because of the heat. If I break down and do it, my position at the bottom of the Hall homestead ladder is secured. So, I've been thinking about different experiences relating to both my fish and others, and now I'm not so sure where I stand. Good threads make one think do that.
Last edited by FireIsHot; 07/26/16 04:16 PM.
AL
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Joined: Jun 2012
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About 20+ years ago I got mad at crows for eating the corn in my demand type deer feeder about 100 yards from the house. They were going through 50 to 75 pounds per week. I bought a varmint calling tape with the sound of young crows with an owl chirping. Then I put an owl decoy on a post at the house and a couple of crows decoys under it. It took about 5 minutes for the flock of pretty raucous crows to show up. They dive bombed the owl decoy. However only 2 lit in the tree above the decoys. I dispatched a couple of them. I tried it later in the year and the crows responded but would come no closer than 100 yards. I tried it yearly for about 10 years with the same results. Same flock of crows? I don't know but I figure the crows must communicate. I really ought to try another location on the property but haven't messed with it. Funny story on the line of nuisance crows. A local city was having a huge problem with the crows they tried everything to rid the town of crows but couldn't. This old Dutch farmer said he would take care of them if he had some help to round them up and transport them. The town parks rep said Ok lets do this. They made up a feed of corn soaked for a few days in whisky. The crows ate it up like nothing and in minutes they were drunk, then using fishing nets they caught all the drunk crows, and loaded them into a truck for transport. Took the corws for a long drive and they didn't come back in the numbers they had before. Probably so hammered couldn't find their way back before they found another feeding hole. Cheers Don.
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298
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Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,864 Likes: 298 |
About 20+ years ago I got mad at crows for eating the corn in my demand type deer feeder about 100 yards from the house. They were going through 50 to 75 pounds per week. I bought a varmint calling tape with the sound of young crows with an owl chirping. Then I put an owl decoy on a post at the house and a couple of crows decoys under it. It took about 5 minutes for the flock of pretty raucous crows to show up. They dive bombed the owl decoy. However only 2 lit in the tree above the decoys. I dispatched a couple of them. I tried it later in the year and the crows responded but would come no closer than 100 yards. I tried it yearly for about 10 years with the same results. Same flock of crows? I don't know but I figure the crows must communicate. I really ought to try another location on the property but haven't messed with it. Funny story on the line of nuisance crows. A local city was having a huge problem with the crows they tried everything to rid the town of crows but couldn't. This old Dutch farmer said he would take care of them if he had some help to round them up and transport them. The town parks rep said Ok lets do this. They made up a feed of corn soaked for a few days in whisky. The crows ate it up like nothing and in minutes they were drunk, then using fishing nets they caught all the drunk crows, and loaded them into a truck for transport. Took the corws for a long drive and they didn't come back in the numbers they had before. Probably so hammered couldn't find their way back before they found another feeding hole. Cheers Don. So THAT is how Old Crow Whiskey got started!
Last edited by anthropic; 07/24/16 02:55 PM.
7ac 2015 CNBG RES FHM 2016 TP FLMB 2017 NLMB GSH L 2018 TP & 70 HSB PK 2019 TP RBT 2020 TFS TP 25 HSB 250 F1,L,RBT -206 2021 TFS TP GSH L,-312 2022 GSH TP CR TFS RBT -234, 2023 BG TP TFS NLMB, -160
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Joined: Nov 2015
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But how do fish communicate? Some make verbal sounds, but what else do the do. How does a whole BOW know when to start biting and when to stop? How can a whole school of fish, swimming in close formation, turn on a dime with no collisions?
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Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
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Pheromones - except the last part which is visual.
Last edited by RAH; 07/25/16 07:29 PM.
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Chemical , audible , visual are the ones I am aware of . Sometime back we learned through conditioning (fingers bitten off)that Bruce's RES have ESP !
Last edited by ewest; 07/26/16 10:35 AM.
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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