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#451398 - 07/07/16 07:34 PM Aerate in the day or at night?
Sk187 Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 22
Loc: West Michigan
I have been running my 5 diffusers 24/7 and its costing about $150 per month and I would like to cut that in half.

I see lots of people are running 12 hour cycles and was wondering if the 12 hours should be during the hot day or cool night?

Thanks!

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#451399 - 07/07/16 08:30 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1846
Loc: West Michigan
SK187... I'll try to answer. First for a pond that has exposure to wind and is 10 feet deep or less the aeration may not be necessary at all. There is not much temperature stratification or a thermocline and no large zone of low oxygen water. Steady wind on top adds oxygen and the main advantage of aeration would be to set up a current of water from bottom to top to improve possibility of muck getting some moving water and air to it. It also will tend to even out the temperature from top to bottom to SOME degree. You always will have warm at top and colder at the bottom.

The need for aeration to prevent fish kill is more a problem with deeper ponds or ponds that have heavy vegetation with heavy oxygen consumption (when the vegetation dies or consumes oxygen suddenly, or with temperature changes, rainfall events etc).

I have a single aerator and feel that it probably makes me feel better (more than making the pond a better place) in that I'm trying to keep things moving at the bottom. I have heavy leaf falls in the fall and I try not to let the dead leaves stagnate too much and build up on the bottom. I'm sure the smaller critters and minnows love riding up the column of bubbles too.

In general, probably moving water is always better than still water.

I use winter time to ice skate on the pond so I don't run aerator in the winter at all. Many move at least one of their deep aerators to the shallows in winter to prevent winter kill.

The experts here could tell you if you truly need 5 aerators or not. I don't recall any other recently active poster on this forum using 5 diffusers and some have pretty big ponds.

You probably could get by with 1 or 2 diffusers in the deepest points of the pond and with proper spacing to help cover the area better.

I personally start running the diffuser when the air gets warm and muggy in June and I run it at night to try to keep water temps cool. Cooler temps means happier fish and less plant/algae growth.

On years that I have tilapia in the pond I switch to daytime use in the early fall and until the tilapia die to try to mix that cold bottom water with the day time sun to keep it warm just a bit longer for tilapia to survive and eat more FA.

Generally people struggle more with too hot of pond water than the opposite.

I'll admit, it sounds strange but when we have bad ice conditions in the winter and have a thin skin of ice with wet snow on it and the skating looks like it is going to go south for a while, I have cranked up the aerator to try to melt the thin skin of ice and slush and hope the weather will allow for precipitation free cold to come and get a good ice base again smile



Edited by canyoncreek (07/07/16 08:32 PM)

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#451400 - 07/07/16 08:31 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 777
Loc: SC Nebraska
I go cool of night in hopes of keeping my water temps down.
_________________________
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'

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#451404 - 07/07/16 10:10 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4197
Loc: Raymond, NE
I think you would be fine aerating just at night, I would consider running it during the day only when a strong cold front comes through.
_________________________


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#451405 - 07/07/16 10:10 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: canyoncreek]
Sk187 Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 22
Loc: West Michigan
Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
SK187... I'll try to answer. First for a pond that has exposure to wind and is 10 feet deep or less the aeration may not be necessary at all. There is not much temperature stratification or a thermocline and no large zone of low oxygen water. Steady wind on top adds oxygen and the main advantage of aeration would be to set up a current of water from bottom to top to improve possibility of muck getting some moving water and air to it. It also will tend to even out the temperature from top to bottom to SOME degree. You always will have warm at top and colder at the bottom.

The need for aeration to prevent fish kill is more a problem with deeper ponds or ponds that have heavy vegetation with heavy oxygen consumption (when the vegetation dies or consumes oxygen suddenly, or with temperature changes, rainfall events etc).

I have a single aerator and feel that it probably makes me feel better (more than making the pond a better place) in that I'm trying to keep things moving at the bottom. I have heavy leaf falls in the fall and I try not to let the dead leaves stagnate too much and build up on the bottom. I'm sure the smaller critters and minnows love riding up the column of bubbles too.

In general, probably moving water is always better than still water.

I use winter time to ice skate on the pond so I don't run aerator in the winter at all. Many move at least one of their deep aerators to the shallows in winter to prevent winter kill.

The experts here could tell you if you truly need 5 aerators or not. I don't recall any other recently active poster on this forum using 5 diffusers and some have pretty big ponds.

You probably could get by with 1 or 2 diffusers in the deepest points of the pond and with proper spacing to help cover the area better.

I personally start running the diffuser when the air gets warm and muggy in June and I run it at night to try to keep water temps cool. Cooler temps means happier fish and less plant/algae growth.

On years that I have tilapia in the pond I switch to daytime use in the early fall and until the tilapia die to try to mix that cold bottom water with the day time sun to keep it warm just a bit longer for tilapia to survive and eat more FA.

Generally people struggle more with too hot of pond water than the opposite.

I'll admit, it sounds strange but when we have bad ice conditions in the winter and have a thin skin of ice with wet snow on it and the skating looks like it is going to go south for a while, I have cranked up the aerator to try to melt the thin skin of ice and slush and hope the weather will allow for precipitation free cold to come and get a good ice base again smile



Thanks for the detailed reply.

My pond is a little less than 2 acres, originally 10 feet at the deepest but over the years has filled in a lot with muck.

The diffusers were professionally installed about 15 years ago by a pond management company. I was not the owner at the time but can only assume they used that many for a reason.

I think the reason for 5 is the odd shape of the pond (lots of little pockets).

One diffuser or 5 doesn't really matter as they all run off the same 1.25hp pump and are all already installed.

I have never really had any fish kill issues, just lots of weeds and FA.

I finally nuked the pond with fluridone 2 weeks ago and it is looking great.

Guess I really dont even know if I need them but seems a shame not to run a perfectly working expensive system.

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#451406 - 07/07/16 10:13 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: NEDOC]
Sk187 Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 22
Loc: West Michigan
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
I go cool of night in hopes of keeping my water temps down.


I was thinking the opposite, pump the cold water from the bottom up during the day when temperature outside is 90+.

At night the surface water cools down significantly, right?

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#451410 - 07/07/16 10:27 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1846
Loc: West Michigan
If you want to heat your water up, yes, then pump daytime so that nice cool water that carries more dissolved oxygen can heat up. This will add stress to fish, and will dump some of the dissolved oxygen out to the air as hot water can't carry as much.

Run it at night and you mix the pot, bring cool air to surface but the heat transfer from air to that circulating water will be less and if it is cool enough out (say 68 or less) even the water on the bottom in mid summer may cool a bit as it dumps heat to the air.

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#451411 - 07/07/16 10:43 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
highflyer Offline


Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 1863
Loc: East Texas
SK,

You are using bottom diffused aeration. The number one reason it is used is to turn the pond over at least one time a day. This get oxygenated water the bottom of the body of water. This opens up additional waters for your fish to live in and aids bacteria to reduce the muck on the bottom.

SO,

How long does your system need to run to turn your water over at least one time per day? That is the shortest time you should run your system daily. It is not about money saved if you kill your fish and disrupt your biology.

With all that said, I would bet if you talked to an expert (like from vertex), they can tell you your expected turnover rate. Then you can see if you want to cut back on your aeration without sacrificing your fish and biology.
_________________________
Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%

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#451414 - 07/07/16 11:15 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
Sk187 Offline


Registered: 06/10/16
Posts: 22
Loc: West Michigan
Thanks for all the replies, I am just trying to figure out what I need I suppose.

The system was off for about 6 years and I just turned it back on last year when I took ownership of the house from my mother.

The bass and bluegill seemed just fine with the aerators off all those years.

I remember a few dead fish over the years but no big fish kills.

As far as I know the aerators were installed to reduce muck and weed growth.

May have just been a good aerator salesman also.

Is 24/7 aeration the best bet?


Edited by Sk187 (07/07/16 11:19 PM)

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#451425 - 07/08/16 08:05 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5588
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW I aerate from midnight to a hour or so after dawn. My understanding is this time period is when fish kills can occur as the vegetation is not producing O2 (actually using it) and DO can drop to dangerous levels. As Highflyer stated, a rule of thumb is the aeration should be run long enough to turn all the water in the pond at least once in 24 hours.


Edited by Bill D. (07/08/16 10:14 AM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#451436 - 07/08/16 10:33 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 777
Loc: SC Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Sk187
Originally Posted By: NEDOC
I go cool of night in hopes of keeping my water temps down.


I was thinking the opposite, pump the cold water from the bottom up during the day when temperature outside is 90+.

At night the surface water cools down significantly, right?


If temps are between 45 and 70 during the day I will run my during the day, and usually 24/7. But if high temps are over 80 I will only run at night as I don't want to warm my water. The warmer your water the less DO it can hold.
_________________________
Just a Pond Boss 'sponge'

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#451437 - 07/08/16 11:17 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
RC51 Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
SK,

I run my air at night only and been doing it ever sense I had my pond 6 years ago.

If you had to choose between night or day to run your air. Night is your answer IMO. Like said above all the weeds and FA in your pond will be taking D.O. from you all night long until the sun comes up. So running it at night helps with that!

There are several reason why you run air. Not just for D.O. that is the main one I spose but there are other reasons.

1 other reason is for just good old pond health. I believe air in your pond if done right can make / improve your pond overall health which improves your fish overall health. After all they are living in it.

Would you like to live in a home that you could never get out of and never have any fresh air or a breeze or clean oxygen? I know I wouldn't!! smile

I am floored by your electric bill? Wow I run my pump 10 or so hours a night and my bill is like 11 bucks for the month... I may have to give up air if my bill was as high as yours.... lol

RC
Anyhow like I said if you have to choose one run it at night. I have mine on a timer that runs from Dusk till Dawn it works great!

RC
_________________________
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

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#451438 - 07/08/16 11:47 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I've experimented with several configurations, but have always come back to 24/7.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#451442 - 07/08/16 12:37 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1846
Loc: West Michigan
SK, get a Kill-o-watt meter and plug your aerator compressor into it. That will tell you the use of the aerator system only and give you a more accurate idea of what your true electric costs are to run it.

Sue at Vertex (advertiser contributer to this board) can run calculations on your pond size and turn over recommendations. My guess is that in 24 hours about 2-3 heads would still turn it over in 24 hours but don't know all the details of depth and the shape of your pond.

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#451519 - 07/09/16 11:33 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
Bob Lewis Offline


Registered: 06/22/11
Posts: 1
Loc: Alabama
Who sells the best fountain aerator ?

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#451532 - 07/10/16 11:50 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: sprkplug]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4197
Loc: Raymond, NE
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I've experimented with several configurations, but have always come back to 24/7.


Reason?
_________________________


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#451540 - 07/10/16 01:46 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
DrLuke Offline


Registered: 06/04/15
Posts: 342
Loc: Grinnell, IA
So after reading all of the above, now I'm worried I should be shutting down my air during the day. Our air was put in April 14th, new, and been running 24/7 ever since. If I have it off for the daylight hours, how fast will it stratify? 2.5 acre pond, ave 8 feet deep. I have been hoping to help 'activate' the aerobic bacteria on the bottom, to begin 'de-euthrifying' my pond over the next few years, so I thought the warmer water temps plus oxygen would help this. Am I doing more harm than good with mixing that warm summer water with the cool water on the bottom??
_________________________
"You get what you earn." - Terry Brands, state champ, National champ, Olympic silver medalist in wrestling
-------

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#451541 - 07/10/16 02:29 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5101
Loc: SE Kansas
Sk187 I do not have an answer for you and am interested in the answers you are getting as much as you are.

But one suggestion or at least question I would raise is the possibility of using a different pump. Could it be possible you could use a lower capacity pump (for example a half or 3/4 horsepower pump), cut your electricity bill enough to pay for the pump in a matter of reasonable time, and run the pump longer hours.

I don't know. Not even suggesting it. Simply raising the question of running a smaller pump continuously or a large pump for only a few hours.

In other words would running your big pump for say 4 hours per day be preferable or running a smaller pump 24-7 (with resulting similar electric costs)? I don't know and will be interested to hear the answers of those that do.
_________________________
John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine

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#451556 - 07/10/16 05:30 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Shorty]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I've experimented with several configurations, but have always come back to 24/7.


Reason?


Consistency and visual verification. I'm not normally there from 9 pm until 8 am.....how would I know it was working if I had it on a timer for evening operation only? I feed of an evening, well before the "on" time I had set when I used a timer. It would be the weekend before I realized it had quit working. That actually happened once. Not good during the hot, windless, dog days of summer.

If I had a species that needed cooler water it might be different however. But the BG, HBG, LMB scenario hasn't presented me with any issues due to hot water.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#451560 - 07/10/16 07:24 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: sprkplug]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4197
Loc: Raymond, NE
Thanks Tony! I am still trying to figure out the best way to aerate my pond with YP and SMB present. Aerating 24/7 is likely hard on my YP due to warmer water temps. My SMB don't seem to be very low DO tolerant so I am not sure if areating just at night will be sufficient given the heavy algae blooms I have had this summer. Twice so far this summer I have lost a small number of my larger SMB when a rapid temperature change caused the bloom to die back significantly while the aeration was shut off during the day. I think I will aerate from 7PM to 7AM and turn it on full time only when the weather forecast calls for it. I'll be able to make sure that it is running when I go out to feed after 7PM.
_________________________


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#451564 - 07/10/16 08:46 PM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Sounds like a plan, Steve....sorry to hear about those smallies!
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#451581 - 07/11/16 09:41 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Bob Lewis]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6962
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Originally Posted By: Bob Lewis
Who sells the best fountain aerator ?


Welcome Bob! Several vendors listed in PondBoss Resources on the home page sell fountains, and aerators. Fountains can be pretty, yet do almost nothing in the way of aeration. Aerators come in a few forms, but I can't think of a single one I'd call a fountain, or "pretty"....

What are your goal and pond shape/size?
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#451582 - 07/11/16 09:42 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: sprkplug]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4197
Loc: Raymond, NE
I still have some nice smallies present, I caught a 17"er a few nights ago and had a big one throw the hook last night. I am going to add a few HSB this fall just to make sure I am not short on predators.

Here is a picture of two low DO stressed smallies, this was the day after a very strong cold front with rain that came through, my water went from very green to brown during the previous day. Secchi dish readings went from 9" to 14" in a short amount of time. I am pretty sure the lighter colored one on the left was one of the ones that didn't make. I had a dozen SMB behaving like this the day after the front came through and I know that eight of those didn't make it.

_________________________


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#451583 - 07/11/16 09:44 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Sk187]
Rainman Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 6962
Loc: St Louis, MO area
Shorty, IME, YP are pretty heat tolerant as long as DO is good.

I know a few ponds well south of your clime with YP, WE, and SMB where the water at depth pushes 85 in the heart of summer with no issues at all as far as mortality.

I have shipped several YP to all of Florida and parts of AZ that are stocked into unaerated ponds and those are reported as "doing well".

If low DO problems have occurred, I would suggest aerating 24/7 and possibly get a surface agitation backup if needed, whether it be a Kasco or even a boat motor....


Edited by Rainman (07/11/16 09:58 AM)
_________________________
Rainman

www.TilapiaStockers.com


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#451584 - 07/11/16 09:56 AM Re: Aerate in the day or at night? [Re: Rainman]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4197
Loc: Raymond, NE
I think my issue is the heat, very green water, and very sudden changes in the weather with big temperature swings. My water was 85 degree last night and it will get hotter. I have been running my aerator 24/7 since the last cold front came through but I am going to dial it back today.
_________________________


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