Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,901
Posts557,105
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,417
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,111
Who's Online Now
9 members (Bill Cody, Boondoggle, FireIsHot, Dylanfrely, Angler8689, Treeguy27, FishinRod, esshup, PRCS), 701 guests, and 173 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I'll take a stab at it, snrub.

First pic, female RES.
second and third pic, male northern BG.
fourth pic, male CNBG.
fifth and sixth pic, male hybrid GSF x BG. Or BG x GSF.

Oops....that's what I get from posting early.

fifth and sixth pic, RES x BG...or BG x RES. No GSF that I see.


That's my take on the top four, in line with you Tony. I am curious what characteristics on the bottom fish hint at hybridization to you. Looks like BG dominant to me, I also don't see GSF in it, what RES genetics do you see?


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
It does not show up well in the picture. And I know from my reading on this forum that color is not a reliable indicator.

But the fish had the mottled cheeks just like my RES do. And you can not see it on the opercular tab hardly in the picture (look at the very last picture and you can see it faintly towards the lower edge of the tab) but the border has a translucent orange border. It is not bright and it has black pigment mixed in so it is hard to see in the picture. All my BG have solid black opercular tabs. All my GSF have translucent orange borders on the tabs. All my RES have solid orange or red borders. That fish has a translucent orange border with lots of black pigment mixed in so it is hard to see in the picture.

Those two things, the non-solid border on the opercular tab (green fishy)and the mottled cheeks (not like GSF bars, but like the RES cheeks) are what make me wonder if it is not a RES/GSF/BG mut of some sort. Whatever it is it is a pretty decent fish and I would not feel ashamed to have a lot of them like it.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
TJ, I see three characteristics that I think indicate RES x BG hybrid. Most noticeable to me is the splotchy, mottled cheeks. Very common to see that on BRES hybrids in our ponds. The overall coloration is also a match, the dark green along the back, and especially the long run of copper on the breast and sides, reaching nearly to the tip of the pectoral. And I think, although the photo doesn't show it very well, that there is a bit of an outline on the opercular.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,792
Likes: 68
You have a lot more experience with BRES than myself, I know the F1 lepomis characteristics are highly variable.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

[Linked Image from i1261.photobucket.com]


Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 84
FishFan Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 84
Wow, didn't realize this thread got revived lol. I'll try to get all the questions answered. It was caught on a 3'' shiner that I was trying to catch some of the bigger bass in my private pond. I had quite a few shipments of bluegills delivered in the last few years and the guy mentioned that he had hybrids mixed in with the bunch.

Another pic. Most of the ones I took are about the same angle.

Last edited by FishFan; 06/27/16 06:17 PM.
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Hybrid. Nice one.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,111
Likes: 478
B
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Online Content
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
B
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 15,111
Likes: 478
The next above picture has a better side view of the fish. The boarder or light colored margin outside of the dark portion is now more apparent on the view of this hybrid. The pectoral fish is also too short for a pure strain BG.


aka Pond Doctor & Dr. Perca Read Pond Boss Magazine -
America's Journal of Pond Management
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
Above fish

Ocular flap structure = hybrid

pec fin = possible/probable hybrid

mouth can't see

color = not male but iffy

size = adult

fin structure = fast growth/near adult

? female HBG = rare

Lot of guessing here.

Last edited by ewest; 06/28/16 10:32 AM.















Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
snrub's 6

WAG work here

1- I have never seen a RES look like this. Does have some RES traits.

2- BG mostly with other genes as well (pec fin looks HBG)

3- BG male

4- CNBG male

5 & 6- BG (likely CNBG) possible/probable RES mix

Every time I look I see something different - I think.

Last edited by ewest; 06/28/16 10:49 AM.















Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
I should've elaborated on my opinion a little. BG x GSF hybrid, appears male.

Clarification...
Referencing fishfans photo.




Last edited by sprkplug; 06/28/16 10:53 AM.

"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
S
Offline
S
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,086
Likes: 93
Ewest thanks for the input.

Concerning #1 it is possible that it could be a hybrid of some sort. It does not look exactly like most of my other RES, although I can not say I have caught a huge number of the adults so I do not have a lot of references to go by. The pectoral fin looked a little short for a RES to me. But the orange tab was definitely of a solid nature and not like any GSF tab border I have seen. The most numbers of RES I have seen are the more recent ones stocked in my sediment pond and they are all still pretty small. They are also in a more turbid pond so their colors are usually washed out. I hope to get to observe a lot more RES adults in the future.

On 5 & 6 here is where it gets interesting. While it is true I have CNBG in my sediment pond and I have also transferred a few hundred of the original and offspring CNBG to my main pond, this fish is way to big/old to be a part of any of the stocked CNBG. This fish has to have come from my original stocking from a fish farm in Kansas (Wallace) which I can not imagine would be using CNBG genetics. It would be from the same stocking that the pictures of the BG in pics 2 and 3 were from.

Just goes to show, what first appears to be a pretty simple task, IDing fish genetics is anything but simple.

Again, thanks for the input. For me in my novice approach I unfortunately focus in on the few traits I am somewhat familiar with (such as the orange/red tab = RES). I know you guys with lots more knowledge and experience also focus on additional traits I don't consider. When you explain what you see, that helps me start to look at those additional traits.


John

I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
What I see on 5 & 6.

Ocular flap structure is RES like not BG.

Face mottling is RES

Fins are CNBG - see light edge on pelvic fins

Lateral line structure (body shape is CNBG)

Nose (just above eye structure or where the helmet starts)see the double line of scales (2 with about 1/2 inch between) where the copper bar goes - this is classic CNBG.
















Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 84
FishFan Offline OP
OP Offline
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 84
It appears there's quite alot that goes into identifying the exact type fish. I haven't set out to catch any gills since this one was caught but maybe over the weekend I can try to catch some more of the bigger ones. They are gluttons with the 2 kinds of pellets I feed them.

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
S
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
S
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,979
Likes: 14
Definitely a lot of variables. Factor in the natural diversity due to geography, water clarity, time of year, etc, and it gets real complicated real fast. Then make an allowance for personal interpretation - we don't always see the same things. That's why I don't place all my eggs in an online fish identification database. To be sure they are a great starting point, and more often than not they will head you in the right direction. And the PondBoss forum and mag is at the top of the list. But I still think the best way to learn for yourself is to run a few thousand fish through your fingers.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,475
Likes: 264
Gill rakers are a big plus on id but are not shown by folks asking "what is this".
















Page 2 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
cro, HC1968
Recent Posts
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FireIsHot - 03/28/24 07:33 PM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by Boondoggle - 03/28/24 06:45 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 06:39 PM
Fungus infection on fish
by nvcdl - 03/28/24 06:07 PM
Can anyone ID these minnows?
by Dylanfrely - 03/28/24 05:43 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 04:48 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5