Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Help Help... LOTS of help needed!

Oh boy. Where to begin.
Large pond, probably 50' wide by roughly 200' long and super deep. About 27 feet when it was built. Probably probably 22-25 at it's deepest. One tapers in rapidly, one is a very quick drop to deep.

So the problem... My parents bought the house and pond nearly 20 years ago now without a clue of how to manage or care for a pond and I was no more educated than they were. We have a great aeration system in it and that's about it.

Let's just say we were totally pond stupid.

Fast forward to today... it's a hot mess. Muck at least a foot to foot and a half deep. And it's muck. Leaf debris, slime... We started treating with muckaway in the late summer last year, but we have got to get some of this gone and the rate at which muckaway is working will take me the rest of my natural life. We used to swim in it. Not anymore!

At this point the aeration system is another hot mess because of the debris. We can't keep that pump clear so the only time we can run it is when someone is around to keep an eye on it. That's usually about a few hours a day, one day a week. NOT helping. Only two of us will get into clean out the intake because we have leeches. We've had warm winters for 2 years in a row and the pond has not frozen like it used to. I've baited and baited and baited and will continue to bait and throw leeches, but I suspect getting some of this crud out will certainly help with them.

Draining isn't really an option. There is an abundance of wildlife in it and it's also 20 some feet deep and spring fed. It's also got a thriving population of fish, turtles the size of a small barge, frogs, etc. If I even attempted to drain the hot mess would be, well, you can imagine.

I can't very well get a bucket in there to pull some of this crap out because there's nothing that is going to reach more than just into the shallower end of the pond. Unfortunately, that end of the pond is on an incline and reach will be... nil.

What can I begin doing to get this debris out? Even if I just get the debris where it's shallow enough to touch bottom for now, it's a start!

Well I am not an expert on this, but I can tell you this. What you want to do, (reduce your muck in your pond) takes money and or time and patience.

I too have used Muckaway and wasn't that thrilled with it. I have used a product called C-Flo and like it but it's still a slow process and you GOT to have air running.

Im not sure what you mean by you can't keep your pump clear? Your pump should be up on the shore in a box or some kind of crate or something... preferably up off the ground. Or are you talking about your air station that is out in the water? If so that should be set on something to get it up off the ground and help keep it clean from the muck. Your air station needs to be around 6 to 10 inches up off the ground. Buy a timer and put on the pump to at least run 8 to 10 hours a night. Once you feel you have the clogged issue taken care of. I have mine on a timer and it runs from dusk till dawn or I can set it for 4/6/ or 8 hours a day at night when you need air the most.

Other than that there is not easy way to remove it. If there was everyone would be doing it!!

Good Luck
RC

RC51,
I think the OP may be calling a water recirculation system an aeration system. That would explain the blocked intake.

Welcome to the forum!

I take it you swim in the shallow area? If so, could you partially drain down the pond, get an excavator in there to scoop out the muck in the swimming area, maybe lay down some geotextile fabric then put sand/pea gravel over that for the swimming area?

Is the aeration system that you have something that pumps water or air to the pond?

Yes, water re-ciculation pump. Sorry! It's a HUGE pump that creates a rather large waterfall. I am pretty sure it's a 3" pipeline. Could be 4. I'd have to check. Do we need more than that? Should I be using some kind of a filter with the problems that I have?

We use to swim in it... years ago. It only remains shallow enough for an adult to stand for about 8 feet at best. It gets deep fairly quickly.
I honestly don't think I can get an excavator on that sloped bank safely. I might be able to reach 3 feet? Although I will certainly try it. Getting that much out is obviously and improvement.

I am sure that this is going to cost both time and money. Probably lots of both! I didn't really expect there to be an easy answer, but I was hoping that there would be other options aside from an excavator and/or Muckaway. Or maybe muckaway by the ton??? LOL!
Is dragging an option? And what would I use in the pond to drag if I did it? I have access to tractors and various machines and can rent something if I need to.

Is gravel an option? At some point we were told NOT to put stone of any sort along the edges. Are there better products/treatments? Any suggestions for the leeches besides the meat baiting?

Yellow Perch will eat leeches.

I'll send you a PM shortly.

You could get a dragline excavator to clean it out if you can find one. It's like a small to medium crane with a bucket.

HWTM,
Spend some time reading the Pond Boss threads on aeration. Improving the dissolved oxygen levels down where the muck resides will speed up the natural processes and should make your Muckaway more effective. I don't know what your electricity costs for running that 3" waterfall pump, but my Gast air pump runs 24x7 and costs about $15/month. Welcome and good luck.

Oh ok well that makes more sense now. I couldn't figure out how the pump was clogging up...lol If it were me and you wanted to keep the system in place you have I would put a 90 degree elbow on the end of that pip and then put a 1 foot extension on it getting going up. Then on the end of that extension I would put some kind of filter to keep the junk out. You say it's real deep in the shallow so putting an extension on should going up a foot shouldn't be an issue. Heck make it tall enough where you can see it in a boat so all you would have to do is go out there and wipe it off with a broom or long scrub brush if need be. Tie a small rope to the filter with a float so you know right where it is. Unless your water isn't clear enough to see it from a boat... Then forget what I said above... Your muckaway or C-Flo wont work near as good with that type air system. It's really meant to be used with a bottom type diffusers system.... As I sit here and write this I wish I could figure out an easy way to get rid of pond muck fairly quick at a decent price cause you would be one rich person I can tell ya that!! There is a big need for it that's for sure!

RC

RC51-funny you should say that, I went today and bought another piece of pipe and a coupler to extend the intake further into the pond. I feel kind of silly not thinking of pushing the intake straight up away from the bed.

dg84s-can you point me to information on aeration and where to begin with that? We don't even have natural gas on the property at this point, but propane is an option and might be a good one where I'd need to locate any new equipment.

JohnF-that's probably what I am looking for to help speed this process up. If you have any links or information you can point me to, I'd be REALLY grateful!

So far, my takeaway from all of this: Add in better aeration. The waterfall may work for the fish, but it's not working for the muck.
Look into C-flo as an alternative to muckaway. Aeration should help to get the muckaway/C-Flo working better.

Leech problem-white perch.

Will the snapping turtles be a problem if I add perch in? I've got some the size of a small continent. I voted for Turtle soup, but got vetoed. I am thinking of 're-homing' some of them in the middle of the night when my mother doesn't know any better.

Your about spot on now. Bass like leaches also!! LMB, SMB will eat them.

Our rule of thumb around here is if a turtle can catch a healthy fish then that turtle deserves the fish...lol Most turtles are not going to catch a fish that is in good condition. They are just to fast for them. But I might rid myself of a few of the Snappers just because I don't like a bunch of turtles in my pond! I don't mind some of them for clean up and such but not a ton of them!

Good luck and keep us posted!!

RC

HWTM,
The Pond Boss Forums page has a section of threads devoted to aeration. Check it out for many hours of member posts and replies http://forums.pondboss.com/

I don't understand your comment about natural gas or propane. An aeration system pumps air into your pond through diffusers which create columns of air bubbles that lift bottom water to the surface to absorb oxygen from the air at the surface. This continuous turn-over eventually eliminates stratification if sized properly for your pond. Aeration pumps are usually electric powered, though there are some proponents of windmill driven pumps. I chose electric power and recommend you do too.
The Pond Boss main page provides a Resources link that offers multiple aeration sources. My choice was http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/

I think they're not doing their clean up job well. Probably need fired.

I can't thank you guys enough. I have a LOT to move forward on and I am hopeful that we can get a good portion of this gone out of at least one end of the pond this year.
And (thank God) now we know a bit more about better caring for the pond so we don't end up in this soup again.
THANK YOU!

We're here for you, don't hesitate to ask!!!

Let us know how the project goes, as you get moving on it.

HisWifeTheirMom, Welcome to the forum!

Removing any muck/detritus/debris you can manually is always a help.

Raising the inlet to your recirculation pump (and adding a tee to reduce suction at a small opening) will help reduce clogs. What your pump won't do very well, is aerate the lower level of water.....Waterfalls sure are purty though! (and burn up a LOT of electricity to move water)

A quality, bottom diffused aeration system will be the best long term solution for muck removal...(only a drain and reclamation will be faster). You should expect 1-2 feet of depth being reclaimed in the first 2 years of installing a well designed aeration system. Bacteria's like you mentioned to remove muck are almost useless unless aeration is there, but, the most effective aerobic bacteria for your particular area is already present there, just waiting for oxygenated water so it can thrive.

I wonder about your "thriving fish population" since you have a heavy leech infestation. What fish species are there? Most fish love leeches, so there should be few leeches alive to attach to swimmers. An abundance of leeches indicates to me that there is also an abundance of anoxic water (devoid of any oxygen). Fish can't go into or use that dead water to control the leeches.

Another suggestion to reduce future muck, is to build a "catch fence" upstream out of hog or chicken wire to catch as much leaf debris as can be caught before it enters the pond.

Slowing the debris entering, and adding a quality aeration system (about $2000) should make a very dramatic improvement in the looks and water quality of your pond in 2 years or less.

Google "dragline services" with your state and county. Many of them specialize in dredging. You can find examples on YouTube under "dragline dredging".