Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Adding HSB to Pond with LMB

Today I added 65 HSB to my 1 acre pond. This pond is a couple of years old and has LMB in it that are about 1 year old. I've fished it and never caught anything that I thought would be a threat to these HSB (they are 4"-6"). About 5 minutes after releasing them, I watched a bass that was easily over 1lb (bigger than I thought I had) cruise up and knock one of the HSB's on the bank right at my feet! 30 seconds later I saw the same thing happen about 50 yards down the bank from me. So, my question is ... do young HSB's automatically head for open water, or will they try to stay around the banks for cover (and more than likely get eaten by the LMB there)?

4 to 6 inch HSB is questionable.... I've added HSB to my 1 acre pond twice with LMB in it but my HSB were 8 to 10 inches.... 4 to 6 inch some of them may become snacks..... I hate to say...

RC

I'm 100% positive that pen raised HSB when dumped into a pond with decent size LMB turn out to be nothing but an expensive snack. I don't think they have any real skill set when first put in the pond, either for hunting or evading, and LMB can fit a pretty dang good size one in their mouths....hence the name.

I made the mistake of stocking 4-6" in mine several years ago. I stocked 250 and never caught one. Saw several get eaten by bass I'd have sworn weren't big enough. I then stocked 8-10" a year later.

Do yourself a favor if you want HSB in an established BOW and ladder stock them big enough that nothing has a CHANCE of eating them. It'll save you $$ and heart ache in the end.

AMHIK

Yeah, that's what I was afraid of. Originally, I had purchased 50 6"-8" HSB a little while back, but they were all dead on arrival to my pond. So, these 65 were replacements for that original order. Since they were smaller in size, an additional 15 were thrown in to even the cost out. I was hoping that since HSB prefer open water that maybe they would head out that way ASAP, and the LMB would leave them alone. The few I saw in the shallows were getting crushed. Lesson learned!

Yeah at this point I put in 25 more last month and I was like hmmmmm not sure about some of them cause I have 3 to 4 lbs LMB now so I am sure they could eat a few of them if they wanted to but I have a lot of BG too so I am hoping most of them make it! I've caught a few so I know they are doing ok.

RC

You could always cage them, feed them well and release them in a few months when they are larger.

I've got some in a cage now and they are eating 2# of food a day...... 1# in the am, 1# in the pm.

I had to make a larger feed ring (3" PVC) and put a 6" "skirt" of fine cage netting on it to keep the feed inside the cage.

I have some now that are about 9" long but their mouths are only about 1" gape. When the feed hits the water it's like a school of piranhas.

Yeah that's a good idea Esshup. A 4 inch HSB is nothing but a big shiner... lol with 65 of them tho some may make it... Only time will tell I guess. If you have enough other food in the pond. You have to figure you got 65 of them. In a 1 acre pond that really to many... IMO specially if you have LMB also. My pond is 1 acre and they say it can only really hold about 50 to 75 to 100 to 200 lbs of predator fish depending on weather you feed or have air or fertilize... I feed and have air so lets say I can hold about 100 lbs of predator fish.

Well lets say I had 60 HSB well at 2 pounds that's 120 lbs of predator fish before I even count my LMB.... And your HSB will get up to 4 pounds or bigger trust me I have them... So I guess what I am saying is even if half of them get ate your still in good shape!

RC

Thanks RC! That makes me feel a little better. Sounds like it might not be a bad thing if some of them get eaten! I shouldn't have any more than about 50 LMB in the pond based on my stocking numbers.

Esshup, I like this idea! What kind of cage would I be looking for to achieve this? How big would it need to be to give the fish enough room to survive a few months?

Thanks!

Habituation is always a good idea when stocking into an adult population. Cages , nets or some other way.

HSB ladder info.

See this thread

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=22246&page=1

01-06-05 Bruce Condello:
"I’d estimate risk of predation from largemouth as follows:

5 inch wiper--80% over one year in presence of LMB
6 inch wiper--65% over one year in presence of LMB
7 inch wiper--45% over one year in presence of LMB
8 inch wiper--15% over one year in presence of LMB
9 inch wiper--negligible mortality.

No problem,

Ok so you say you may have 50 LMB. Well lets play it safe and say your only have 40.

Let say you supplement feed and have air running. So your good for about 100 to 150 lbs of predator fish...

Lets do the math. Let say only 30 HSB make it.

Well you have a total of 70 predator fish then X 2 pounds is 140! So you see what I am getting at here your already pushing it with only 30 HSB so yeah I wouldn't worry about a few of them going missing!!

Now if you don't have air and you don't feed.... Well your pond may get predator heavy kinda quick and they could start to stunt and or your BG and RES and other fish may suffer from to many fish eating them...That's why it's important to keep a RW chart on the medium to big fish you catch to see how they are doing.

If your RWs are to low on your LMB that means you need to maybe cull a few and same with HSB eventually. Oh by the way HSB are good eating!! Wow I couldn't believe it just make sure you take the red meat out of them and fry em up man they are good!! I had my first 4 pounder about 2 months ago and I wasn't real excited until I bit into that fish!! It was just about as good as my BG!! Just about...

RC

I stocked my 3ac pond with 300 4"-5" LMB on April 16th.I plan on adding 150 HSB and a few paddlefish in Sept or Oct once the temps start to cool down to reduce stress.My LMB are growing rapidly and are approx 7"-8".I was planning on stocking 3"-4" HSB but after reading this post I am afraid that I might need to stock larger HSB.I had read earlier on the forum that the habitats for LMB and HSB don't really overlap but as I have also read "it all depends"!I do hand feed consistently, with a few LMB taking pellets, so I am hoping that my HSB do not end up being expensive snacks!

You are fine, the HSB are at the most 50% the size of the LMB, I don't think any (if any) will get eaten. LMB like fish 1/4-1/3 their length, more fusiform shaped fish can be a bit larger, but with the spines that the HSB have, LMB might not like them very well.

The size of the cage all depends upon how large and how many fish you want to put in it. I know a guy that grows 1,500 HSB in a cage to around 2+# each, and the cage is 1,280 sq. ft.

Thanks for the reply Scott.I was just concerned that my 3-4 inch thin fingerling LMB might be fat thumbering LMB by Sept at the rate they are growing.My son caught a LMB a few days ago that was between 7 to 8 inches.If my LMB could possibly make it to 9 to 10 inches this summer then they could be 3 times the size of my HSB when stocked.I know someone posted a LMB growth chart by age progression but I have been unable to locate it.

ewest, that is great info! Wish I would have seen it at the beginning of the week. I'm going to look into making a growout cage for future stockings.

RC, I didn't realize 100-150lbs was about the ceiling for predators in a 1 acre pond, but it makes sense. And, I love a good fish fry, so I'm exciting to try some of these HSB out!

Everything seems to have settled down in my pond, so hopefully some of these guys found a place to hide for the time being ... otherwise, I've got some happy LMB!

If you are feeding the fish in the pond a good pelleted fish food, the HSB will be 10"-12" by the end of October, and about a pound. LMB, if there is enough forage fish in the pond, can be over 2# from fingerlings in a year, possibly 3 pounds.

If the HSB are larger and develop a line of dark meat in the center of the fillet near the skin, cut that out. It's oily.
I've soaked large striper fillets (18-20 pound fish) in milk overnight before cooking in addition to removing the dark meat and that seems to change the flavor a bit too.

Yeah like Mr. Cody would say it all depends but 1 acre is NOT very big for all them meat eaters!! LOL. And as they grow and your BG grow and everything else grow your biomass could become topped out or close!! Specially if your not running air.... Just be careful and remember that harvesting some fish is a must at some point! Part of good management is learning what and when to harvest your fish too!

RC

One other thing also. With all those predators in that 1 acre pond one thing that has helped me is to have some well placed habitat in my pond so them small fish have a place to hide. Lets face it 1 acre is not real big to hide in when you have 100 lbs of predator fish in the water. If your not careful another problem you could run into is a lack of food and then your predator fish will become stunted. I have 5 small brush piles in my pond, a fairly large cinder block area for fish to hide in and a spot with like 5 tires on a metal rod in the water. And a few single tires around the shoreline for FHM and such. If you already have all of this in place then you should be better off that's for sure but if all you have is open water you better do something quick or your predator fish will be hungry fish before to long.

RC

I do have 1 feeder running twice a day for about 5 seconds. I will probably increase that now. I do have a lot of CNBG ... I have stocked 700+ over the last couple of years, and my banks are lined with BG beds. Shortly after the pond filled I put in around 10 PVC trees, a pallet pile, and a couple of tires in, and I have plant life surrounding about 60% of the banks. Air is next on the list!

Oh ok cool sounds good then. I would not up my feeding the setting you have now IMO is fine! I have a feeder and also run it twice a day. 2 seconds in the morning and 1 second at night. If it were me I would hold where you are at on feeding until you get your air setup.

RC