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#391722 - 11/05/14 01:52 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
sprkplug Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6953
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Pin oak is the name we use when in polite company. When it's just the fellas, we call it by another term due to it's (sometimes) strong odor of urine.

That name starts with a P also. wink
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#391725 - 11/05/14 02:02 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6953
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Snrub, you and I have differing opinions as to what constitutes a redneck! grin
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#391726 - 11/05/14 02:10 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: sprkplug]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5489
Loc: SE Kansas
It is a pin oak! Looked up the leaves of both and definitely pin oak.

And yes it does smell while curing out.

We are mild rednecks or maybe closet rednecks. Go a little south of me and they live up to the redneck reputation better.
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#391742 - 11/05/14 04:33 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8197
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Pin oak is a very common tree planted throughout Lincoln, red oak is a distant second, and very few burr oaks - but the latter are common throughout NE prairies and around the Platte and Missouri river basins. Pin Oaks grow very tall and straight and have the smaller round acorns and I think they smell like fresh dog crap when split. It's inferior to red oak as firewood as it can get punky/powdery, but still a superior wood and in my experience very easy to split straight grained with a hand maul. When I get a knotty piece, buck it into 4" rounds and split chunks for charcoal or smoking wood or head to the hydraulic splitter and take out some frustration.
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#391780 - 11/06/14 07:47 AM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14046
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
TJ, I have dang near bought a big splitter on several occasions. Now I have decided to ignore trees that need to be split. When I do get one, I get out a maul and do it. My post oaks generally produce more than I need.
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Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

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#391785 - 11/06/14 07:58 AM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: Dave Davidson1]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24033
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Dave, this is a bit easier than using a maul...
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#391811 - 11/06/14 11:06 AM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: esshup]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5489
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: esshup
Dave, this is a bit easier than using a maul...


Impressive machine. Would have to cut and sell a lot of wood to pay for one of those. Wonder what it would do with an old knotty piece of Osage Orange in there? eek Probably not be a good thing.

Dave, yours is probably the best approach.......... just avoid the big trees. But there is a certain amount of redneck satisfaction of seeing just how big of piece of wood I can get in my 35 ton splitter and get it split. Use my little tractor loader bucket to set them in place, the pieces too big for me to move by hand (splitter set vertical). Usually when I get them split in half, then I can tip the other half around enough to get it split up. The good thing about the big wood is it does not take too many pieces to make a rick. Try to cut about half hedge (Osage Orange) and half other wood like oak or ash.

I don't burn much wood any more, being gone most of the winter, but always cut up a bunch for our office manager for the office. The old farm house she works out of for an office has electric heat but she is very cold natured and likes to keep the wood stove going to stay toasty warm. Keeps it 80 in there in the winter. Got to keep her happy. She is the one that keeps the bills paid and the payroll going while we are away. grin Great gal.


Edited by snrub (11/06/14 11:07 AM)
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#391840 - 11/06/14 03:35 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8197
Loc: Lincoln, NE
With age comes wisdom, Dave. I still haven't felled enough trees in my lifetime to get it out of my system. Biggest I ever tackle are 50' Green Ash but have my eye on several 20-40' Locusts - both of which are native to the farm. It's tough getting close enough to the trunk to make a cut through the labyrinth of thorns. Then I think - what the heck am I going to do with this thing once I get it down? Do guys actually take the time to knock off all those thorns with a hammer before they buck limb and split? Seems a ton of effort, although Locust is reportedly one of the most dense, highest BTU woods available in North America. I notice some of them are thornless on the farm...wonder why? Gender specific?
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Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#391842 - 11/06/14 03:52 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6953
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Tj, if you cut down those locusts I would make every effort to clean the felling area thoroughly of any loose thorns. They'll puncture the toughest tires....

Some species are poisonous to livestock also, so beware of that when disposing of smaller limbs and branches.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#391849 - 11/06/14 04:35 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: teehjaeh57]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5489
Loc: SE Kansas
TJ, I take the chain saw and run it up and down the trunk at modest speed. Be careful it does not flip thorns at you though. I clean the trunk several feet up and down all the way around before felling. Mostly try to avoid the tree altogether but sometimes one is in the way.

I've cut a few up for wood that had large trunks worth knocking the thorns off but generally just avoid them. We are blessed (cursed?) with so many trees around us there is never a shortage of wood to cut, so avoidance is the easiest way to go.

A long time ago used to cut a lot of what my dad called honey locust. It had no thorns, grew tall, and was a fairly dense wood. Not as dense as the thorny locust, but still good wood for heating. Carolynn & I cut a bunch of it and sold fire wood early in our marriage when income from farming was lean, especially in the winter. I can't seem to get her excited about cutting wood any more. Can't understand it.
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#391851 - 11/06/14 04:39 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6953
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Used to cut a lot of Black Locust for fence posts years ago. No thorns on trunk, just small ones on limbs and branches.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#391860 - 11/06/14 05:26 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8197
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Thanks guys, good info, and Tony - I know all about those damned thorns in the tires. Me clean up thorns? Are you kidding? Too much distracting me!
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#391881 - 11/06/14 08:32 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: teehjaeh57]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24033
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
TJ, if the tree has thorns all over the trunk, it's honey locust. Some guys drop the tree, keep the weeds beat back with roundup for a year, then knock the bark and thorns off.

But, seeing the few growing around here, I'd mess with something a lot easier to cut and split. All those thorns seem like too much work to me.

Black Locuse has no thorns on the trunk, and only some on the smaller branches.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#391883 - 11/06/14 08:38 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6953
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Let a black locust fencepost cure for a few months and you can barely drive a fence steeple into it. Harder than hammered hell.... lasts forever though, even beats cedar.

Yes, I said steeple, not staple.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#392233 - 11/10/14 10:41 PM Re: Reclaiming 50 year old pond [Re: snrub]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 8197
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I think the posts around here are made primarily of locust and osage orange. Some look like they are 70+ and I still can't make a dent in them. Amazing.

I'm going to try a few smaller locusts [35'] this fall that I ringed last Spring. I'm sure I'll bury a few thorns into my legs and will call it a day, but you know me, gotta throw stupid at it a few times to see it will wake up.
_________________________
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau





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#449747 - 06/14/16 09:53 PM Re: Finally getting something done [Re: liquidsquid]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5489
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: liquidsquid
I would be very curious to get the soil tested just under the muck line. I have seen a few folks on here who have renovated a pond like this but had problems with clarity and algae blooms after it filled back up. I am wondering if a high degree of nutrients leaches out of the muck into the subsoil being exposed, and if so, how to remedy that nutrient load so it doesn't return to the water too fast. Now would be the opportunity to check it out.

If high in nutrients, perhaps line the pond with a fresh layer of clay before filling? Perhaps dig a little lower and see if there is less down below?


You were right on the nutrients being a problem. I ended up having to leave one corner of the muck so there were more nutrients left behind than I wanted. But mother nature decided it was time for the fall rains to come and that muck had to stay where it was.

The first year was not much of a problem. But the second year my son did have a lot of FA problem from excessive nutrients. I think this year he is trying to keep that contained but have not heard from him how he is getting along with it.

His kids are in the pond almost daily during the summer. Either swimming, kayaking, rubber boating, fishing, etc. They get a lot of use out of it.
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#449753 - 06/14/16 10:29 PM Re: Before after [Re: Dave Davidson1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5489
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Heckuva difference. I wouldn't get too attached to those oaks. Mine don't like to have their roots submerged for long periods.


You were right Dave. That Oak did not make it. Funny thing is we have another Pin Oak (I had incorrectly called that one a water Oak) just SW of our house that is right at water level of a seasonal creek. Just looked at it today. The water has actually undercut the root ball and has water under the tree. The roots are all growing along the bank and into it, with no roots out in the water. I'm amazed the wind has not blown it over. It is about 30" in diameter and likely nearly as old as I am. It seems to be growing fine at waters edge.

Go figure. The ones we don't want to die do, and the ones we don't care about seem to do fine.
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#451736 - 07/12/16 11:58 PM Re: Finally getting something done [Re: liquidsquid]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5489
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: liquidsquid
I would be very curious to get the soil tested just under the muck line. I have seen a few folks on here who have renovated a pond like this but had problems with clarity and algae blooms after it filled back up. I am wondering if a high degree of nutrients leaches out of the muck into the subsoil being exposed, and if so, how to remedy that nutrient load so it doesn't return to the water too fast. Now would be the opportunity to check it out.

If high in nutrients, perhaps line the pond with a fresh layer of clay before filling? Perhaps dig a little lower and see if there is less down below?


We never tested the soil but had to leave a portion of the muck because fall rains came and the weather determined when we were "done". And although my son's family gets much use out of the pond, the nutrients have been a problem in the summer both last year and this. He used some Cutrine and knocked the FA back a while this year but still a major problem. He used some pond dye but probably too late for it to keep the regrowth down like it could have if used earlier.

Talked to him today as he and the kids swam and fished in my pond. He is going to get an earlier start on controlling the FA next year in hopes they can use the pond for swimming later into the summer.

But you were correct to anticipate nutrient load being a problem. It is.
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John

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