Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water Green water. Help please

Got a 1/3 acre pond that has developed an algae bloom I think this spring that is really bad. Visibility is down to 13" and seems to be getting worse. It has a mediam green tint to it with some lighter green film on top in places and a lot of suspended green particles. It's getting to the point that I'm concerned for my fish. I have a heavy fish load and feed quite a bit also. Also can't see crap. It is slowly spring fed and I usually have to add pond dye to keep the clarity down. Not this year.
It has a limited amount of run off from a fertilized hayfield but has been since built.
My question is what have I got going on and what can I do about it.
Thanks

Suspended green particles? That's not any part of a phytoplankton bloom. From your description, I think it's possible that you might have too many fish for the environment.

The bottom line is that there's no way for me to tell.

Beretta, Dave has way more experience than I do, so my experience with this may mean squat. I went through a similar situation about a month or so back. I was fertilizing every 10 days or so in an attempt to get my bloom going after this past winter. At one time I saw some green looking flakes floating around the pond. Looked like green glitter flakes. I also saw some area where a green film was floating on the surface, mostly where the wind had blown it to an area of the pond. I was concerned and posted my experience here on the forum. I received several comments after posting and I came to understand I was having a good bloom and what I was seeing was part of that bloom with excess phytoplankton. I was getting some spring rains at the time and I believe the bloom was diluted back by the rain, so not sure what all took place as I have only about 18 months of pond experience's under my belt, but things seamed to turn out ok. I did not see any floaters during this event.

Tracy

Can you post a pic. ? It sounds like a heavy plankton bloom. How has the weather/temps been over the last 2 weeks?

If so until (short term) you can determine the situation reduce feeding and if possible move the water (motor , aeration , water inflow etc.)but do so at the surface not from the pond bottom.

The floating stuff just might be algae that is breaking loose from the bottom.

A pic would help.

I've never been able to post a picture on here. I'm trying......

Store in a photobucket account. That is the easiest for me. Then post the direct link to the pic and it shows up here. There are instructions in the archives here.

Green particles is algae in nutrient rich water. Probably from the fertilizer run-off. You will most likely have to develop a nutrient reduction program.

I would find a lab that will do water testing for total N and P plus ortho-P and get a baseline now. Then start the program and take another sample in 6 months and a year. That's the only way to know for sure that the program is working.

Phoslock/Phosclear or do an alum/hydrated lime treatment. Tilapia if legal. Dig a wetland filter pond upstream to catch the runoff and utilize some of the nutrients before they hit the pond. etc., etc.

[video:myspace]http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/berett...sxughs.mp4.html[/video]

Well i have accomplished something, I got pictures on the forum.
Water temp is 80.5 and weather coming up is mid 90s with a low of high 60s and chance of scattered thunderstorms later part of next week.
I'm thinking a heavy alge bloom that I need to correct with time. Short term? Would an algecide help or just hurt the problem. I run bottom air.
Just looking for some advice.
Thanks

That might be the beginning of Blue-green algae.

I would use Cutrine Plus at a 0.2 ppm dose.

Here's the label so you can figure out how much to use:
Cutrine Plus Liquid label

Looks like a heavy plankton bloom. They are often associated with the a blue-green algae breakout. High nutrient level ? How long have you been aerating ? Much rain recently ?

Think this will be my forth year on the air. We are in about a 2 week hot and dry spell.
I put cutrine plus to it yesterday morning so we will see I guess. Have my fingers crossed.

You might want to have a boat motor handy if the Cutrine kills it off too fast. It could cause an oxygen crash.

It very well could crash. I think I was headed that way anyway. Things are definitely changing. Most of the top sheen and small floating alge are gone now. Well not gone but dead and out of sight I guess. With what I have researched and seen I think this was a blue green algae. But I'm probably wrong as usual. Water visibility is the same at 1 foot but it is a paler green tonight.
Rain man, what is the thinking behind the boat motor?
I've actually seen more fish activity in the last 30 minutes of eating and chasing fry and bugs than I have in the last week.
With that said I'm gonna get my pole and catch me some before they all die tonight.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Rainman is saying use the boat motor in an emergency. If your DO is crashing you can run a boat motor and keep the water surface moving to help aerate the water.

You are correct, woodster!

Well my saga continues. Fish are doing fine and active. I've cut them down to a bare minimum on feed for the last week. Weather has been the same.
Water today is the same 1 foot clarity but has turned a darker green again with a slight green film where the wind is congregating it. I think I had another bloom but this just looks like the regular green if that makes sense. But the suspended particles are definitely smaller.
Looking on where to go from here.
Would getting the water tested learn me much on how to proceed?
I'm also off this weekend so I think I'm gonna lighten the fish load. I kinda think I may have a decent balance of cc cnbg lmb and res. Just too many of them. Anyone got an idea of what poundage of each I may need to try to remove for a 1/3 acre.Also if I did have blue green algae what's the take on consuming the fish? Good bad or not worth the risk.
I'll try to get a couple pics of water posted up.
Thanks

That looks like a heavy plankton bloom. Do I see a bunch of FA ? If so and you put in a CU product then be ready for a DO problem . Rake out some of the FA if possible. Aeration should help reduce the problem . Harvest some CC , LMB up to 20% of your total - my guess is 10 lbs total - max. A few BG also. That is if you are fish (bio-mass) heavy.

There is no FA in the pond. That is just the heavy green film that was pushed up by wind. Nothing to rake out. Aerator is running 24/7.
Thanks

Your picture below looks like a bluegreen algae bloom to me. The stuff in the picture eventually works its way to the surface as the algae cell/colony buoyancy increases and forms green films as in one of your pictures. This surface scum/film resembles a typical nuisance bluegreen surface scum to me. If it was my problem, I would be intensively spraying the accumulated films with an algaecide. I would choose an algaecide that matches or corresponds to the goals for your pond. Some prefer copper based algaecides while others prefer a hydrogen peroxide (hydrogen dioxide) based chemical (Sodium Carbonate Peroxyhydrate 85%) - example Green Clean Pro.

[URL=http://s1186.photobucket.com/user/beretta2011/media/AEB95CAC-F67B-443C-8CEF-B10AE1385EFB_zpsacjpcief.jpg.html][/URL

Well I broadcast Phycomycin yesterday morning @ 30# per acre foot. I believe I could have saved some money and just dumped in a bag of triple 19. I'm steadily loosing the battle. Water is dark green at 12" tonight. The film on top definately don't look dead.

With that heavy of a bloom you probably did not use enough Phycomycin per acft. Maximum dosage is 100/lb/acft. It is an oxidizer and it has an oxidation potential for each pound applied. When the biomass is greater than the material applied a percentage of algae does not get oxidized/killed. With that heavy of a biomass you may have to resort to using a copper based product. Do not kill it all at one time or you could create a DO shortage when all of it dies & decomposes at once. Keep in mind that you are treating the symptom not the cause of the problem - nutrients or a nutrient imbalance.

I agree with Bill. How many acre feet of water do you have in your pond?

The only reason I use Phyco is if there are trout/koi in the pond, or if it is used for drinking water. I use Cutrine Plus liquid/granules otherwise.

Thanks for the advice guys. Appreciate it. I done a test run of treating 1/3 of the pond tonight on the deep side where the wind had the film pushed up. I used cutrine liquid at .6 ppm for the area and depth I covered. We will see what happens. I have a couple questions if you all could.
Bill, you mentioned a nutrient imbalance. Could you explain what your meaning by that.
Essup, on applying cutrine plus liquid, if I try to treat 1/3 at a time to .6 ppm is that even possible other than surface contact? If my math is right I'm turning my pond a little better than 6 times a day with my diffuser. So in theory if I try to do it in 1/3 at a time at .6 ppm in 4 hours I have it diluted back below .2 ppm throughout the whole pond. So I'm thinking I would have to treat my whole volume of water at once to get to .6ppm. What is your take on this?
Thanks
I have 1 1/2 acre feet of water

If treating planktonic algae, then yes, you'd have to treat the whole BOW to achieve the correct PPM level. If you were spot spraying or treating an area, then just calculate for that area.

I wouldn't use CU+ for treating the whole pond at once if the bloom is moderate to heavy. Too great a risk of creating a DO sag. Phyco makes O2 as it breaks down, that is why it is used in aquaculture applications to treat the whole water volume at once. MUCH less of a risk of an O2 crash.

Any idea if you have high phosphorous levels feeding the bloom? If so aluminum sulfate might help.

One-Two-Three Punch Clobbers Toxic Algae, Restores Fremont Lake

Use of Aluminum Sulfate to Eliminate Algal Toxins and Improve Lake
Water Quality - Presentation

Combating Eutrophication: An Ecosystem S... Dual Treatment

Update... Well treating with cutrine @ . 9 ppm did knock it back some but the last couple days it darkened back up with visibility - 12". I got a couple water tests in the works so we will see then where we're at. For the numbers test I had to go with a reputable lake management company. Which won't be quick. In the conversation they suggested usin aquashede. I see their point on this but see mine also, so I gonna be nonpartisan and see what the opinions is on this.
I done 2 bucket tests tonight. One with alum the other with Phycomycin. Both at double dose. Results are already coming in but I'm gonna give it 24 hours and then try to post pics for you to see.
Weather has changed a bit.. Still hot but we're getting some thunderstorms every evening.
I now I have problems but I'm bound and determined to get this under control short term and long term.
Thanks

I am going to do an alum treatment this fall once my bloom settles down, I think it will do a better job of locking up excess phosphorus if the water isn't so green when the alum goes in. In looking at the Fremont lake treatment they waited to do the treatment until October, efficacy was likely better without an active algae bloom going on.

We had strong cold front here this weekend, my water went from green to brown very quick during the day on Saturday and I lost small number of my larger SMB due to a dissolved oxygen sag. This weekends lesson was that I need to run my aeration system 24/7 instead of just at night if my water is that green and the weather forecast warrants a longer run time. Summer cold fronts can be a fish killer. I also learned that SMB are less tolerant of low DO levels than the other fish in my pond and that redear sunfish seem to tolerate low DO levels very very well.

Have you guys seen the blue green being flushed in Florida?

New link.

I got the overview of the water tests. They reccommended a alum treatment of 250 pounds to clear the water some and lock up some phosporus. I was told to spray it as a slurry and halfway through the process spray 12 pounds of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda) to buffer the ph. I questioned him on this instead of hydrated lime. He said he used baking soda and new the formula for figuring out how much to use. What are the thoughts on using this instead of lime for the ph buffer?
Thanks

Beretta, baking soda is not nearly as caustic as Hydrated lime. It would take far more bicarb to offset the alum acidity! The guy better recheck his math....

Thanks Rainman, that's why I double checked here first. You may have just saved my fish.
Unfortunately I've bombed today on trying to find a source for alum locally. My southern states couldn't even come up with none. I have a Helena distributer 1 hour from me that said he sat on 1000# for over a year and couldn't move it so he sent it to Michigan last Thursday. Just my luck.
I Can order it but the shipping for 250# pretty much takes it out of play.
I'm now looking at phosclear. I can get 120# shipped for $ 360. Has anyone used this and what are the opinions? Any advice would be much appreciated.
Thanks

Where are you in KY? I have an extra 950# here in St Louis and could possibly meet you somewhere

Thanks Rainman. I'm in somerset and google maps show us 5 hrs 50 min apart so I don't think that would be worth it either. I have a couple more places to check tommorow so I'm still looking. I can get it shipped ups ground for $30 per 50#. Ups freight is $50 more on 300#. Wonder how the 40# bags of optimal are getting shipped so cheap?
I done some research on the Phosclear. Thier app rate states 80# per af. That's what got me looking. But as far as I can tell it is basically just pre buffered alum. So with that I'm thinking I would need just as much of there product as regular alum for the same results. So other than the convience of Beeing prebuffered I see this option as way more expensive. Plus I can't get it local either.
Anyone have a idea where I might find alum in ky.
Thanks

Is the UPS ground charge, $30 for just the shipping, or $30 per bag including the shipping?

I agree, the "stated" application rate on the buffered alum is okay for a low volume, closed system garden pond, but far below what real world application rates would be for a earthen fishing.

The $30 is for shipping only. Per 50#

Beretta, Jones Fish has alum and buffering agent. They have stores in Cincinnati and a little north of Nashville. Don't know how well priced they are or how close for you but hopefully an option.

Check with the closest grain elevator or agricultural supply for someone that deals with Helena Chemical; they have alum reasonable.

Water test:

If the analytical tests are correct,,, your N:P ratio is low. The Good ratio for producing a good bloom of green algae is said to be around 20N:1totalP (best range 14-50:1). Redfield Ratio. Your ratio is 2.6:1 (1.1ppm/0.41ppm) which indicates to me your pond is what we call nitrogen limited. Nitrogen is too low for producing a good bloom of green healthy algae.