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#441963 03/27/16 11:53 AM
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I didn't plan to catch any LMB this year. But it is exactly 1 year after stocking and two LMB went out the overflow and were rescued downstream. So here is a rundown.

Stocked as 2-3" LMB. Avg wt was 0.17oz as measured in a lot of 10. The pond had a full year growth of both FHM and GSH. Forage was abundant. I fed pellets in small amounts (1-3 sec on feeder). Some was 36%, some was 45% feed.

One year later: Generally, the LMB are now 9-12" from what I see in the water 10-20' away. They will eat some pellets, but prefer ambushing others drawn to feeding time. Two LMB found downstream. A 9" and 11". Photos of the 11" are below. According to data I've seen, an IN LMB should be 9.4-11.4" (N vs S) in year 3. Given that it was already 3" last March, it is more than 1 yr old, but not lots over. So length growth would seem good. I weighed it at 13.0 oz, so 0.81 lb. Data for LMB indicates an 11" should be 0.68 lb so perhaps 120% RW. It doesn't look ready to spawn, but water is still cold. I hope to get an LMB spawn this year. Apologies for blurry photo of the vent, I was doing this after dark under a headlamp. Saw no excretions but didn't squeeze any more than necessary. Some may opine on gender, I'm not smart enough, even after reading the linked article.

I also found a dark 6" BG and a couple 1" late-spawn BG that over-wintered. All are back in the pond to carry on. BG spawned the last 6 weeks of last summer. I was pleased they made it to 5-6" and spawned in year 1. BG started at 1-3" fish in March also.

Any thoughts?










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LMB like the one shown may spawn this summer in your location . It will be close and may be late (June). Keep your eyes open.

LMB have been shown to be able to spawn at
8 mths in Cuba
9 mths in Fla
1 yr in most of the south including KY
1 yr sometimes and more often 2 yrs in much of central US (lower mid west Oklahoma etc)
And 2 to 3 yrs in. Northern US -- NY SD Minn upper mid west. Etc
See Carlanders I I .

Last edited by ewest; 04/12/16 10:42 AM.















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Interesting data. We stocked 1000 Lone Star Legacy LMB ( Camelot Bell Strain) last June. They should be 1 yr old now. I am very curious as to what the growth rates are. I read somewhere that bass spawn is more tied to weight than age. I am hoping at least a few of ours spawn this yr.

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Length data , age data , weight data - RC (relative condition factors) are all "measuring tools" for reproductive capacity in LMB. They are often used in conjunction such as LMB in Penn will spawn at 2 years if they are 10-11 inches long - for example.

At your location I would be confident that you will get a LMB spawn this spring/summer if the fish are in good condition.

Last edited by ewest; 04/12/16 10:55 AM.















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Thanks for the update ewest. I'd read that 10-12" was required for LMB spawn, but no ties to geography. The geographic variability could easily be tied to a time required to reach a wt or length as a function of warm growing days.

I dug another out of the downstream pools this weekend. It was at least 11.5". ..a bit curvey in the photo. It weighed 14.7 oz. Gape was 1 1/4". Looked better than the last one.

Pond is only at 51 deg top to bottom. Feeding is still light. Any spawning is still a long way off.

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Originally Posted By: ewest
Length data , age data , weight data - RC (relative condition factors) are all "measuring tools" for reproductive capacity in LMB. They are often used in conjunction such as LMB in Penn will spawn at 2 years if they are 10-11 inches long - for example.

At your location I would be confident that you will get a LMB spawn this spring/summer if the fish are in good condition.


I sure hope we get some that spawn. I tried to look for some beds this past weekend and it was just to windy. Still may be a little early as well.

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Read Doug Hannon's books in your spare time. Your 4-6' water temp needs to be 56+ steady and the moon rising. Hey teacher', Leave them kids alone! Dan

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I whacked a 9" LMB yesterday; she was full of eggs that looked as if they were developing. Last summer I removed 100+ LMB from my pond. Many at 7" had plenty of eggs. This is not to say they would spawn at 7". Ovaries weren't particularly large.

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Does anyone think I should be worried if I haven't seen a single sign of the Camelot Bells I stocked last June?

I see posts like the OP and other threads lauding CB growth rates, but after 11 months in my new pond I see no indicators of bass. I'm located in north Texas near McKinney.

I stocked 100 CBs from Overton last June in my new 2 acre pond. FHMs, Coppernose BGs, and RES all seemed to be thriving at the time the bass were stocked. Since then, I've had some spillovers (June '15 right after stocking bass, November '15, April '16). The pond also got pretty low last August and September (reduced to about 5' deep and maybe 1 surface acre), at which time cattle had access (they are now fenced out).

Currently, I can easily catch BGs and RES and they look good to me. Each time my pond spilled I only found FHMs and BGs in the spillway. I do have a bottom draw drain that I suppose could suck bass through in the major rain events.

More patience, more fishing? If I still have no sign of bass around July, what would be the correct course of action, electro-survey or simply restock?

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How big were the LMB at the time of stocking and how big were the CNBG and RES at the time? Still have any FHM?

Last edited by Bill D.; 05/05/16 02:45 PM.

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Do not simply restock without more info ! Have you tried to seine survey ? Fishing should give results. Can you do a timeline from LMB stocking date forward with flood dates etc. ? What about walking the bank watching or from a boat ? Use good sun glasses and see what is there.
















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Aeroaggie,

I was in the same boat as you. I stocked 1-2'' CB in our 2 acre pond and had no sign of them. So i stocked some more that were a little bigger 8-9''

I didnt like the feeling of not knowing whether we had any or not. Now, i see 2lb bass slam our perch at the feeder. They patrol the shoreline, ambushing prey. Unfortunately, theres no way to know "for sure" if you have any bass without electroshocking or physically catching one.

To me, it was easier to just stock a few larger ones to guarantee we had some bass.

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I was surprised to see FHMs in the most recent spill (April). The males had the ugly black spiky head spawning look going on.

Water clarity has been poor since the cattle had access last summer. I'm working on that now.


At time of stocking

June 20th 2015
LMB 2-3" qty. 100
w/ 5# FHM

May 16th 2015
CNBG 2-3" qty. 1000
CNBG 3-5" qty. 125
RES 2-3" qty. 375
w/ 15# FHM

I understand that stocking was close together, but Todd Overton thought it was worth doing. My forage was doing excellent by the time I stocked the bass. Water clarity was great, algae bloom from fertilizing look great. As best I could tell some spawning occurred about a week before I added the bass.

[edited to clarify stocking dates]

Last edited by aeroaggie; 05/05/16 05:37 PM.
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Originally Posted By: ewest
Do not simply restock without more info ! Have you tried to seine survey ? Fishing should give results. Can you do a timeline from LMB stocking date forward with flood dates etc. ? What about walking the bank watching or from a boat ? Use good sun glasses and see what is there.


I'm seeking advice here before I do anything and I'll keep fishing until July before I spend any money. I have no idea what seining or an electro-survey would cost.

My pond has a large submerged island in the middle, so seining may be difficult. My bottom draw drain pipe runs directly into the creek I dammed, which eventually feeds an old established 0.75 acre cattle tank. I think I need to spend some time fishing that tank. Currently the tank and my new pond are too dirty for much shoreline observing.

Based on my notes:
6/20/2015: Bass stocked.

6/21/2015: Pond spilling.***
***I actually don't have notes on this event. I just remember the my pond spilling shortly after stocking bass, and looking at historical records it looks like it was literally the day after.

10/22/2015: My pond's low point (about 77" low).

11/26/2015: My drain pipe started flowing.
11/27/2015: My pond spilled.
12/5/2015: My pond was drained to pool level.

12/26/2015: My drain pipe started flowing. No spillway action.

3/9/2015: My drain pipe started flowing. No spillway action.

4/20: My pond spilled. (This one is actually my fault. I'd been playing with a newly installed ball valve on my drain pipe, and I didn't realize a flash flood was forecasted for 2 am!)

Last edited by aeroaggie; 05/05/16 03:40 PM.
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Originally Posted By: aeroaggie
I was surprised to see FHMs in the most recent spill (April). The males had the ugly black spiky head spawning look going on.

Water clarity has been poor since the cattle had access last summer. I'm working on that now.


At time of stocking

June 20th 2016
LMB 2-3" qty. 100
w/ 5# FHM

May 16th 2016
CNBG 2-3" qty. 1000
CNBG 3-5" qty. 125
RES 2-3" qty. 375
w/ 15# FHM

I understand that stocking was close together, but Todd Overton thought it was worth doing. My forage was doing excellent by the time I stocked the bass. Water clarity was great, algae bloom from fertilizing look great. As best I could tell some spawning occurred about a week before I added the bass.

[edited to clarify stocking dates]


I'm thinking you meant 2015 on the stocking dates, not 2016? If that is the case then the biggest fish in the pond when you stocked the fingerling LMBs were 5 inch max CNBG. Correct?


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Originally Posted By: Bill D.

I'm thinking you meant 2015 on the stocking dates, not 2016? If that is the case then the biggest fish in the pond when you stocked the fingerling LMBs were 5 inch max CNBG. Correct?


That's correct.

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IMO that rules out that your fingerlings were eaten then. Leaves choices of washed over the spillway or still in there or some where in between. I'm with Caviler03, I'd stock a few more but 4+ inches since your CNBG have had a year to grow.

Last edited by Bill D.; 05/05/16 07:50 PM.

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See seine surveys here - a method of finding out pond balance . You do it with a short seine. You don't seine the whole pond only a small area. Then look at results to see what is there.
I bet your LMB are there and stocking more will lead to quicker LMB overcrowding.




Here is a link to the MSU Pond Mgt. Book. Look at the text and charts on pages 16-19 on population assessments.

http://msucares.com/pubs/publications/p1428.pdf

Last edited by ewest; 05/05/16 08:26 PM.















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I am with ewest and assume that the LMB are in there too.

I see no problem with the stocking schedule.

Even if the seine survey shows nothing, I would contact Todd and see what an electroshock survey would run.

I would be too afraid of screwing up the balance if I were to stock more LMB without knowing for sure.


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Guys the next PB issue should have a very good Cutting Edge article on supp. stocking and what happens to those fish.
















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I appreciate all the advice. I'll pick up a seine net and see what I find. If I don't find any bass, I'll call Overton's to discuss. I'm guessing they won't have the LMB sizes I need until late summer.

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I finally got a chance to seine last night. I used a 4'x30' net so I had to stay pretty shallow. We caught a bunch of healthy looking CNBGs and FHMs. Got a few RES. No bass. My forage base looks really good. Bait fish everywhere, giant worms, frogs, and crawfish. Water is looking good. I just can't manage to catch a bass. Or see any sign of bass.

My uncle, who helped me seine, is convinced I have 1-year-old bass hanging out deeper with their mouths wide open gorging themselves. He said his similarly sized and stocked pond took several years before he had much luck getting the bass to bite. Of course I'm pretty sure his stocking methods was just moving natives from his big pond to his new small pond.

I've contacted Bob Lusk Outdoors since they are nearby and I'm waiting on Justin to give me a call to see if we can workout a quick electro-survey. It sure is tempting to just call Overton about adding 50 more of his legacy bass.

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You realize that the seine survey would only show small yoy LMB not the 10 inch + fish. The idea is to see if there was any reproduction. Its just now time to check that. Do a couple more seine passes and look for very small LMB fry.
















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I bet those bass are in there, fat, sassy, and lazy. Why should they take a lure if they can just swim around with their mouths open and feed?

Not having enough LMB is a problem that fixes itself over time and then some, at least in my neighborhood.

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I hope so! My concern for my bass stems more from lack of surface action than not catching them. Yesterday we fished beetle spins and a small rebel crawfish crankbait. Couldn't keep the CNBGs off.

ewest, I read the PDF you linked above. It convinced me to go ahead and get a seining net for future management. And it was pretty fun to use. But no, we didn't find any yoy bass. My uncle was fooled by a FHM briefly.

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