Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,900
Posts557,088
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,414
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
15 members (Sunil, LANGSTER, dg84s, ewest, Fishingadventure, Shorthose, Freg, IND1371, Augie, Groundhog7, Brandon Larson, Dave Davidson1, PRCS, Theo Gallus, BillyE), 748 guests, and 313 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
I have what will be a 1.75 acre pond after some work on the dam, and 50 yards away from it, another .65 acre pond. I'll call the 1.75 pond A, and the .65 pond B. There is horse stalls in between. My question is will this DIY work? I am going to aerate both ponds hopefully with 1 pump in the horse stable. My plan is to run a Thomas 2660 to a PSI gauge, then to an air valve system. From the valve system I want to hook up PVC, weighted hose, and then to 3 9" membrane diffusers.

Pond A run- It hits the water after 25 yards after the dam work is completed. The 1st trunk line of PVC run will go about another 25 yards and hits a 4 way. One run to the left, one run to the right, and one run about another 250 ft forward. Left run - 50ft of PVC and then I want to run 25 ft of weighted hose, then to a 9" membrane diffuser,...(the hose is so I can swing it under my dock for the winter). Right run - 100ft of PVC and then 25ft of weighted hose, then to diffuser. Center run 250ft of PVC 25ft of hose to diffuser.

Pond B run- It hits the water in 25 yards. The main PVC trunk line to a 3 way. 5 ft of weighted hose from the 3 way to a 9" diffuser. Then to the right another PVC run for about 150ft to 5ft of hose to 9" diffuser.

Question, will that pump be strong enough? Specs listed are 4.5 CFM and 45 max PSI.


Last edited by For the Family; 05/04/16 10:59 PM.

God has blessed us with this day, what we do with it is up to us.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Air filled PVC under the water will easily lift itself out of the water, even buried a foot or more. Use the self-weighted tubing anywhere lines go under water. I think you will need 2-3 pods of 3 9" diffusers in pond A and only one, 2-3 diffuser pod for pond be, at the deepest point.

In pond A, I would place one diffuser pod a little south of the current pond's southern extreme, or the center of the wider part depicted in the future water lines (in 9' of water), one pod in the deepest point, and one pod in the current pond's eastern point in at least 9' of water to move water as far into the future eastern cove as possible.

Place your air valve manifold where you can see all diffuser so you can "balance" air flow to each pod.

With a total of 4, 3 diffuser pods, you will need a minimum of 5CFM flow at 7 PSI to supply all the diffusers. If you cut back to 2 diffuser pods, you will need 4 CFM. I don't believe single diffusers will move enough water to turn the volume each day at least one time in Pond A, but might in Pond B. Membrane diffusers need a minimum .5 CFM (max is 2.5 to 5 CFM depending on the diffuser brands) to operate properly.



Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
In a nutshell, you have to know how many GPM each diffuser station will lift, and know the gallons of water in the pond. Size the system to get a minimum of one "turn" of pond water to the surface every 24 hrs, that means if you run the compressor for one hr. per day or 24 hrs. per day.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
So Essup/Rainman, it sounds like I'll be killing this pump to be barely under performing. Any suggestions on a pump strong enough? I'm on a bit of a budget with the expense of the dam repair. That what the idea of the PVC was about. Cheaper to make a longer run from the stalls.

Would running the PVC sticks through cinder block/brick holes create any concerns? I've seen where people have purchased the non-weighted hose and put galvanized 1 inch nuts around the hose and secured them to slide in 5ft sections with duct tape. At 27 cents a piece it would offset the cost of the weighted hose. I am usually a right tool for the job kinda guy, but money gets in the way sometimes. Enter in ingenuity.

Is it more cost efficient to run two pumps or one very strong one? (knowing I need to aerate two ponds at once)

My goal is the larger pond is going to be big bass waters, and the smaller a catfish and panfish pond for guest junk fishing. It has easier access for the guests who bring kids.

Last edited by For the Family; 05/05/16 11:07 AM.

God has blessed us with this day, what we do with it is up to us.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Originally Posted By: For the Family
So Essup/Rainman, it sounds like I'll be killing this pump to be barely under performing. Any suggestions on a pump strong enough? I'm on a bit of a budget with the expense of the dam repair. That what the idea of the PVC was about. Cheaper to make a longer run from the stalls.

Would running the PVC sticks through cinder block/brick holes create any concerns? I've seen where people have purchased the non-weighted hose and put galvanized 1 inch nuts around the hose and secured them to slide in 5ft sections with duct tape. At 27 cents a piece it would offset the cost of the weighted hose. I am usually a right tool for the job kinda guy, but money gets in the way sometimes. Enter in ingenuity.

Is it more cost efficient to run two pumps or one very strong one? (knowing I need to aerate two ponds at once)

My goal is the larger pond is going to be big bass waters, and the smaller a catfish and panfish pond for guest junk fishing. It has easier access for the guests who bring kids.


PVC or even cheaper black Poly tubing at a minimum 1.25" diameter is great for all buried, non-water runs. You WILL need to service all lines under water at some point, and once you add the labor and cost to "weights", you will find the self-weighted tubing (1/2"-5/8" size is less money and WAY less pain of a PITA! I think that using nuts, you will need at least one nut, every foot...that makes it more expensive per foot than weighted tubing, plus when you need to lift or move the diffuser, you'll break the PVC lines, or not get the diffuser moved.

Use schedule 40 PVC for strength wherever you install manifolds or ball valves and other exposed areas, Poly for long runs (Seal buried hose clamps to slow/stop bolt rust) and weighted anywhere lines are under water.

2 smaller pumps may be better than one larger one....

Last edited by Rainman; 05/05/16 11:54 AM.


Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: For the Family
So Essup/Rainman, it sounds like I'll be killing this pump to be barely under performing. Any suggestions on a pump strong enough? I'm on a bit of a budget with the expense of the dam repair. That what the idea of the PVC was about. Cheaper to make a longer run from the stalls.

Would running the PVC sticks through cinder block/brick holes create any concerns? I've seen where people have purchased the non-weighted hose and put galvanized 1 inch nuts around the hose and secured them to slide in 5ft sections with duct tape. At 27 cents a piece it would offset the cost of the weighted hose. I am usually a right tool for the job kinda guy, but money gets in the way sometimes. Enter in ingenuity.

Is it more cost efficient to run two pumps or one very strong one? (knowing I need to aerate two ponds at once)

My goal is the larger pond is going to be big bass waters, and the smaller a catfish and panfish pond for guest junk fishing. It has easier access for the guests who bring kids.


PVC or even cheaper black Poly tubing at a minimum 1.25" diameter is great for all buried, non-water runs. You WILL need to service all lines under water at some point, and once you add the labor and cost to "weights", you will find the self-weighted tubing (1/2"-5/8" size is less money and WAY less pain of a PITA!

Use schedule 40 PVC for strength wherever you install manifolds or ball valves and other exposed areas, Poly for long runs (Seal buried hose clamps to slow/stop bolt rust) and weighted anywhere lines are under water.

2 smaller pumps may be better than one larger one....
[color:#FF0000][/color]

What servicing/maintenance do you do to the lines?


God has blessed us with this day, what we do with it is up to us.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Mostly when moving diffusers, but in concrete blocks, Murphy's rule applies and someone will step on a raised line, or hook and break it. Poly kinks easily. Critters like beaver, otters and muskrat which always seem to show up will chew through a line also.



Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
I agree. For some reason, a muskrat decided that it wanted to cut through a poly line that went to a duck decoy.

Now that diffuser assembly is not working at all - it is blocked somehow, somewhere. So, I will have to bring a boat to the pond, and pull up the line all the way to the diffuser, and hope that I can pull up the diffuser with the self-sink airline. Why is a membrane diffuser completely plugged even with 25 psi??? It worked last Fall when shut off for the winter.......

I have learned my lesson, and it seems that it manifests itself in different ways year after year.

Whenever I invariably try to go a less expensive, DIY route it turns around and bites me in the butt 1-2-3 years later and I end up spending more $$ AND time to get it right than if I were to have spent the $$ in the first place.

Latest? Use 55 gallon barrels to make a floating dock they said. It will work for years if you silicone the bungs and screw them back in they said.

Now I'm trying to find "they" to help me pick up my floating pier and put real floats under it.........................

Not easy when you are working in water cold enough that you can't swim in, and it's deep enough that there is no way to touch bottom.

Price out what you want to do in the water. At $1.40 per lineal foot for self-sink airline, it's well worth it. I have made 700' runs on the bottom of a pond to a 5 disc diffuser air station. Plenty of volume to run it. .6" ID airline.

I would use Poly underground but never in the water. Too many things can go wrong at the wrong time.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
So you think a 2660 has enough ummmpffff otherwise known as PSI or CFM to turn 1.8 million gallons of water? Does that even sound right for a 1.2 acre pond at 4.5 average depth. Deepest 9ft currently, will be 18ft or so once dam work is complete.

Let me just ask ya....how would you set it up? I only have the Thomas pump 2660 as of right now. Horse stalls in between both ponds and want to aerate both at minimal expense but be effective.


God has blessed us with this day, what we do with it is up to us.
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,414
Likes: 792
Originally Posted By: For the Family
So you think a 2660 has enough ummmpffff otherwise known as PSI or CFM to turn 1.8 million gallons of water? Does that even sound right for a 1.2 acre pond at 4.5 average depth. Deepest 9ft currently, will be 18ft or so once dam work is complete.

Let me just ask ya....how would you set it up? I only have the Thomas pump 2660 as of right now. Horse stalls in between both ponds and want to aerate both at minimal expense but be effective.

Question, will that pump be strong enough? Specs listed are 4.5 CFM and 45 max PSI.



Figure that there is 0.5 psi pressure for every foot of water that is over the deepest diffuser. How deep will the diffusers be?

Once you have that number, then look at the pressure vs. volume curve of the pump. Will the pump furnish 1 cfm of air to each diffuser disc at that pressure?

That will answer the question "will that pump be strong enough?"

Here, I'll do the math for you.

1.2 surface acres
Max depth 18 feet
Average depth 9 ft (better to err on the high side .vs the low side)
9 x 1.2 = 10.8 x 325,851 = 3,519,191 gallons of water.

Using that information, you will have to determine how many CFM that Thomas pump will furnish at 9 psi.

Once you have that info., you have to look at your diffuser suppliers specs to see how many CFM the diffuser needs to operate, AND at what depth they will be placed.

Using that information, you can look at the mfg. specs and see how many diffusers you need, and at what depth they will be placed at.

Lets taka a look at Vertex Diffusers:


An XL2 will lift 4,550 GPM at 2 cfm@9 psi. You'd need to run it a minimum of 13 hrs per day to turn the pond over once. 3,519,191 ÷ 4,550 = 773÷60 = 12.89 hours.

But, since one diffuser station won't properly aerate a whole 1.2 surface acres, you have to run more than one diffuser assembly. AND since you really should turn the pond volume over more than once per 24 hr. period, you will need to run it at least 18 hrs. per day.

Now, with that said, if you don't use Vertex diffusers, I cannot say whether it will work or not. I don't know the specs of the pump you are wanting to use.

That pump you listed? You said 4.5 cfm AND 45 psi max. Not 4.5 cfm AT 45 psi max.

I/you need to know the cfm AT 9 psi.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
OP Offline
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 125
How can I determine the CFM at 9 PSI?

Would that run time be cut in half if I run 2 XL2 stations? Even more if I run?


God has blessed us with this day, what we do with it is up to us.
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 340
Likes: 3
D
Offline
D
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 340
Likes: 3
Spec sheet looks like about 4.25 cfm at 9-10psi.


Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by ewest - 03/28/24 03:37 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by Sunil - 03/28/24 03:32 PM
1 year after stocking question
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/28/24 02:44 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by Freg - 03/28/24 09:42 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:36 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5