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Joined: Mar 2005
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Moderator Hall of Fame 2014 Lunker
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The pack will circle a dog and they will grab and break a leg. Once that happens the dog is toast. Love to see donkeys pound the yotes into the ground.
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
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I worry not about my German Shepherds. Its not just weight that determines the outcome. We have a lot of coyotes. Never had one challenge my GS dogs over the last 25 years.
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Joined: Nov 2015
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Some coyote hunters use dogs as decoys. The dogs will go out and act as though they want to play with the coyotes, and then they come back to the hunter who is wainting in ambush, and whey the yote get in range, no more yote.
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Joined: May 2009
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Lunker
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Lunker
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668 Likes: 57
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Joined: Sep 2014
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80 fawns killed by one pair of coyotes to support a single litter deserves a little math. Over what period of time were they fed to how many pups? How many pounds of meat were consumed by this one family? Why did this clutch stay in just one den when most move around? I eliminate coyotes due to their numbers and adverse effects on deer, but 80 fawns by one pair and pups seems unbelievable. RAH, I read the same article, I just can't remember where, but it was a true situation. And if the fawns are young they are not that large and might only feed one or two pups. I wish I could remember where I read it or saw it. Maybe growing deer TV, QDMA? Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,668 Likes: 57
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Joined: Sep 2014
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I shoot every time I get the opportunity when it comes to yotes. My problem that just came up this week is the one and only neighbor that I don't get see eye to eye with (due to him trespassing) has just showed up with a large dark colored German Sheppard. Now, he house is about a mile away from my farmhouse but his dog is not restricted. I hope I don't mistake him for a yote, because I have seen similar looking yotes here in E Texas. I need to talk to this neighbor.
Tracy
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Tracy
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Not sure if you seen this one we found like this durring out deer hunt? Took three of us to let him out of the fence. IF you look close at the picture you can see the Y stick to the left going in for his neck. They have little power to open their jaw so once closed its easy to hold. JUST DON'T LET IT GO OR YOU WILL HAVE YOUR HANDS FULL. We don't take any yotes until there is allot of snow on the ground. Cheers Don. I've pulled a few bird dogs hung up on fences just like this. Scary times for sure. As soon as it happens, you can tell by the dog's screams. Haven't been bit by the dog yet, but close. They are in full panic mode.
9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep. RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these. I think that's about all I should put in my little pond. Otter attack in 2023
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Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,381 Likes: 46
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Joined: Aug 2014
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I did some quick reading after this thread. I found one DNR study that found 40% fawn mortality from coyotes within the first day of birth! That is pretty crazy!
Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine - America's Journal of Pond Management
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 44
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Tracy, Come see the new toys, they will assist you with your coyote problems.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 6,088 Likes: 96
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Joined: Oct 2013
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Guess I need to import some yotes. We are over run with deer. And if the coyotes get too thin we get over run with rabbits. Between deer and rabbits, a soybean crop can be destroyed in a timber enclosed bottom field.
I leave them alone (unless they look sick) and let nature set the balance. The rabbits and deer seem to follow a "rolling spawn" so to speak with one set of population numbers following the other.
Have one at the old pond helping me keep some goslings from claiming my ponds as home. Don't know where they and their parents are walking in from.
I find the coyotes preferable to the deer. Deer don't eat mice.
John
I subscribe to Pond Boss Magazine
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Joined: Jun 2012
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Some coyote hunters use dogs as decoys. The dogs will go out and act as though they want to play with the coyotes, and then they come back to the hunter who is wainting in ambush, and whey the yote get in range, no more yote. Our hunting group us dogs to hunt the yotes. All the dog have a tracking collar. We follow the dogs with our truck and find where the yote crosses the road. We put a fresh dog out on the track after it crosses the road and pick up the dog that is in the rear or last. We rotate six dogs this way and the yote will just stop when beat tired of running. Our dogs will circle the yote with their asses to the yote. When the tracking collars stop crossing the road and the dogs chop turns to a long howl we walk in the country block. As soon as you pull the gun off your shoulder the dogs are ready to head to the truck. We can get three to five a day on a good day with fresh snow. The deeper the snow the faster they wear down. Cheers Don.
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Joined: Jan 2006
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Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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I don't kill anything I don't eat. I think killing predators is, TO ME, like killing big bluegills for eating bass fingerlings.
But, I have absolutely no problem with the yote hunters who disagree with me. If it's on the wrong side of the fence, it's your yote. On my side, it's mine. But, if they become a problem, I'll kill them.
I also don't kill rattlesnakes unless they are around the house, other structures, or ponds.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Jan 2013
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Joined: Jan 2013
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When it comes to safety while living in the countryside, myself and my dogs are far more concerned about people with guns than anything nature may throw at us.
If the story about 80 fawn being drug back to the same coyote den is true, I would guess that it was made possible because of a severe overpopulation of deer.
Nice pics, Keith.............. That's what I call, good shooting!
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 44
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 44 |
Dave,
I understand and respect your position. I look at it this way; man has upset the balance so we are charged with correcting the problems.
To me it is interesting to see John wanting more coyotes to control the deer and rabbits because he grows crops, but I want more deer and other game animals so I don't want the coyotes or hogs.
its all perspective.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
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Joined: Oct 2014
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Joined: Oct 2014
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I follow Dave's way of thinking. I will however harass GBH and cormorants around the pond with my 22 (which is perfectly legal as long as you don't try to kill them). They catch on very quick and pretty much leave our pond alone after a couple of encounters.
The only predator around my place that might need some controlling is the guy with the farm next to me. My neighbor said he told him he took 23 deer last season. When asked him how he could eat all that meat, he laughed and said he only takes the backstrap, the rest the backhoe eats....I still can't figure how one guy can have that many tags...
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
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Joined: May 2012
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Joined: May 2012
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Sheep ranchers in Colorado are using Llamas for the same thing.
But, a Llama isn't any protection against Mountain Lions..... We've used a guard llama before to protect our flock from wild dogs and coyotes to great effect. They will chase predators and kick them to death. I don't know how they'd fare against a mountain lion but predatory animals usually won't risk a broken bone for a meal. More recently, we've swapped out the llama for an Anatolian. It would mean less hassle for us to take care of, but some of our new neighbors call the city animal cruelty hotline on the regular to say that somehow it's a crime to keep a working dog outside any more. The inspector always leaves shaking his head but we still have to suffer his visit.
Last edited by Bocomo; 04/29/16 12:02 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,055 Likes: 277
Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
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Ya know, if I raised chickens and a hawk was getting them, I wouldn't call the Feds and ask for help or a permit. Nor do I call the county Sheriff if neighbors dogs cause problems.
I have, until the last 2 years, raised wheat to help the deer get through the Winter and the droughts. And, I didn't hunt there. For the last 5 years of drought, we have been short on all wildlife and the food plots, I think, helped. These days, I don't see as many deer but neither do I hear a lot of song dogs.
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
Joined: Jun 2008
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I don't kill anything I don't eat. I think killing predators is, TO ME, like killing big bluegills for eating bass fingerlings.
But, I have absolutely no problem with the yote hunters who disagree with me. If it's on the wrong side of the fence, it's your yote. On my side, it's mine. But, if they become a problem, I'll kill them.
I also don't kill rattlesnakes unless they are around the house, other structures, or ponds. This is real close to my way of thinking also. I will still trap muskrats when they show up, however.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,255 |
I don't kill anything I don't eat. I think killing predators is, TO ME, like killing big bluegills for eating bass fingerlings.
But, I have absolutely no problem with the yote hunters who disagree with me. If it's on the wrong side of the fence, it's your yote. On my side, it's mine. But, if they become a problem, I'll kill them.
I also don't kill rattlesnakes unless they are around the house, other structures, or ponds. This is real close to my way of thinking also. I will still trap muskrats when they show up, however. Of course it has to be said that when one has a pond full of HBG, the definition for what constitutes a pestilence is considerably restricted. I'm somewhat surprised that even muskrats make the list
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,799 Likes: 68
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
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Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent Lunker
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 8,799 Likes: 68 |
I don't kill anything I don't eat. I think killing predators is, TO ME, like killing big bluegills for eating bass fingerlings.
But, I have absolutely no problem with the yote hunters who disagree with me. If it's on the wrong side of the fence, it's your yote. On my side, it's mine. But, if they become a problem, I'll kill them.
I also don't kill rattlesnakes unless they are around the house, other structures, or ponds. This is real close to my way of thinking also. I will still trap muskrats when they show up, however. Of course it has to be said that when one has a pond full of HBG, the definition for what constitutes a pestilence is considerably restricted. I'm somewhat surprised that even muskrats make the list There's the cannonball sailing over your bow, Captain Tony. Gonna sit back now and enjoy the volley...
Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,055 Likes: 277
Moderator Lunker
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Moderator Lunker
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 16,055 Likes: 277 |
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.
Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.
Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282
Lunker
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Lunker
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 5,722 Likes: 282 |
It is interesting to see different perspectives on coyote control. Some folks here express disdain for animals that eat their fish, even when some of these fish eaters are protected from harm by wildlife laws. On the other hand, some seem to think that controlling a pest species like coyotes that compete with hunters for deer is a different concept, even though wildlife laws in many places (like where I live) allow coyotes to be taken any time due to their pest status. While I have not targeted coyotes myself (although I have taken a few), I am seriously thinking about it due to their high population. While I would prefer to do this when the fur can be used, the glut of fur on the global market right now takes the incentive out of this (not worth the time to skin them).
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,980 Likes: 15
Ambassador Lunker
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Ambassador Lunker
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Yolk, you've given me food for thought. I don't suffer any muskrat issues in the HBG pond, and have just realized that the likely reason is due to predation by the hybrids. Whenever a rat wanders in, it is immediately set upon and devoured by the fish. This might also account for their tremendous growth.
I'm thinking in addition to Optimal, I may begin adding small, fur- bearing animals to the hybs diet. What's the squirrel population like down your way?
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,185 Likes: 44
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Joined: Jul 2011
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Tony, You DO NOT want to pelletize Squirrels, It is way to messy. Mice on the other hand are doable. And with their high protein content, you might just be on to something. Please update us on your efforts. I figure with your hydraulic experience now, you might have a workable plan. It should be interesting to see what you come up with
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,541 Likes: 845
Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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Moderator Ambassador Field Correspondent Lunker
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I used to buy one but have better things to do with 100 dollars, and don't like to kill creatures that are just doing what they evolved to do. They were here before I put my pond in I and made it an attractive place to feed.
Cecil, I feel the same way as you, but when they start impacting my pocketbook, I have to take a different stance. I lost a whole cage full of HSB last year to GBH predation, and that is with a "bird net" lid on it. This year the $100 spent was less than 10% of my fish loss last year. I am taking more steps to ensure that the fish cages are bird proof, but I also am looking at the $100 spent as an insurance policy. I have legal options now. Regarding coyotes, a guy (I believe in Southern Indiana) put a trail cam on a coyote den. From the time the pups were weaned until they left the den Mom & Dad brought 80 fawns home for dinner...... How did the GBH get the fish? Did they land on the cage? Did they just kill the fish and not get them out? They'd land on the cage, grab the fish thru the netting on the top and eat them. I never saw dead fish in the cage, and only 1-2 small tears in the netting, but the fish population inside was drastically reduced (and no holes in the sides/walls of the cage). I still had fish eating the floating food, but as time went on, if they could see my profile they wouldn't eat. If I walked away so they couldn't see me, they'd eat asap.
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