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#445151 - 04/24/16 04:39 PM Building a pond in a floodplain...
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
Been reading on here for years! Thanks to all who contribute!

I am looking into purchasing a 30 acre piece of ground in Missouri. A good portion of this land is in the flood plain. A very small creek runs on one side of the land and small small drainage ditch/wet water creek runs parallel to this creek and feeds to creek. We have two options, dam the very small creek (3-4 feet wide, 1"-3" deep), or build up the bank outside of the creek and use the drainage ditch to feed the pond. Either way we will be creating a pond in an area that floods from the back up of a much larger creek down stream. This larger creek downstream feeds the Mississippi River.

My question is can you build a pond in a floodplain?
Can you dig a pond in floodplain?

Who should I contact to make sure? DNR? Core? If you have any knowledge on this or would like to see pictures let me know.

The purchase of this land is contingent on being able to build a pond.

Thanks in advance.

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#445155 - 04/24/16 05:39 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
JKB Offline
Hall of Fame 2015
Lunker

Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 6692
Loc: Michigan
Probably would need to contact a few of the agencies and go thru the red tape. Corp. Of Engineers would probably be the ones to give the nod tho.

A friend of mine wanted to poke a little pond in his back yard that's in a flood plain, and it could flood anytime. He hired an Engineering Firm to deal with it. Took about 2 years to get a permit to dig the pond. He needs a permit to stock any fish in his pond because it could easily overflow to the state waters. He gets a lot of NP juveniles, and the NP kinda breed in his Big Dollar hole.

Kinda cool tho, but all you ever catch are small NP. He thought it was kinda cool early on, but abandoned that expensive dig. Just no way to control.

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#445180 - 04/24/16 10:06 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: JKB]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I would start in your counties NRCS office. They usually share an office with the USDA.
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#445242 - 04/25/16 02:20 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
The soil in the flood plain is Haymond soil, but the adjoining higher land has a pretty good clay but it is cherty. Does cherty clay do ok to build a damn out of?

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#445247 - 04/25/16 03:01 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1846
Loc: West Michigan
Haymond?
Cherty?

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#445266 - 04/25/16 07:53 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
Zep Offline
Hall of Fame 2014


Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3083
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
Originally Posted By: bronconaegerski
A good portion of this land is in the flood plain.


Do you know roughly what the return period is for this flood plain?
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#445344 - 04/26/16 10:55 AM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
The Haymond and Cherty come straight out the soil book I received from the county. I will define those two better later today. I'm not sure what the return period means? If it is how often it gets flooded--I would estimate water has been in the lower field around 10x the last 30-40 years.

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#445346 - 04/26/16 11:23 AM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
Dan123 Offline


Registered: 03/31/16
Posts: 71
Loc: Cross City Florida
If you are a true glutton for punishment, drop down and get you some Yazoo clay. That crap must be good for something. Dan

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#445350 - 04/26/16 11:37 AM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2009
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
My late uncle had a one acre pond in a floodplain of a small river/large creek in SW Missouri. The return period was about three years or so. When it flooded, it seemed most of his stocked species left, and he was left with a lot of undesirables, like GSF and stunted BG, with a few gar and carp, plus lots of FA (moss). It turned out not to be worth much for fishing, but made a decent cattle water hole. I guess it is still there, haven't seen it in about eight years.
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#445352 - 04/26/16 11:54 AM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
Zep Offline
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Registered: 07/27/10
Posts: 3083
Loc: Dallas & Wills Point, Tx
bronco....not sure about Mizzou laws and your exact plans as far as size of pond, etc...but if this pond is going to be your "baby" that you give lots of time, effort, money, and TLC to I am not sure you should build a pond in something that floods every few years.

I guess if you are getting a hell of deal...as flood plain land is usually way below market price...and your are willing to deal with the problems every few years then it may be ok.

I know a guy that is buying major flood plain land along a river...he is getting it dirt cheap....and says it will be a great property to use as a place to take the kids out on ATV rides, fishing, and camping on weekends, so it certain instances flood plain can work. As a matter of fact the lower end of my property, about 25% of property, is in some kind of flood plain along a creek, but my ponds and cabins are not in the flood plain.

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#445363 - 04/26/16 01:52 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
The idea would be that the dam for our lake would keep the flood water out of the lake. We are on the very edge of where the water gets and is only at max 4-5 feet for a few acres every 8-10 years. It would essentially be making good use of the flood plain if the law allows. I'll try to get some pictures up so you all may understand a little better of what I'm talking about. There is raised land on one side where I would build a house. Some bottom acreage, a very small creek, and the a steep wooded hill opposite my house.

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#445364 - 04/26/16 01:54 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
If you could imagine building a 250-300 foot levee to keep water out of a floodplain, I would just have a 5-7 acre pond/lake on the other side.

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#445365 - 04/26/16 01:54 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: Zep]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24029
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
If there was a way to keep it full other than surface runoff (like from a well) then you could use all the excavated dirt to build up a berm around the pond to keep the flood waters out. Talk to NCRS to see what height the flood waters would reach in that particular area for a 100 year flood, then exceed that height by at least 5'. That's what I would do if I was set on having a pond.

I would hate to go thru all the trouble and expense of digging a pond, stocking it with fish and getting it "just so" in a couple of years to have it wiped out by a flood the next year.
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#445372 - 04/26/16 02:22 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2009
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Usually, "they" won't permit a private levee in a flood plain if it alters the flow of flood waters to make them higher at any point off the property the levee is on.
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#445375 - 04/26/16 02:45 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
Thanks to all, the amount of water this would displace has to very small in the scheme of things, 4-5 acres at 4-5 feet deep vs. the entire Mississippi floodplain.




Edited by bronconaegerski (04/26/16 02:47 PM)

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#445376 - 04/26/16 02:46 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
This has only happened a half-dozen times in the last 30 years.

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#445381 - 04/26/16 02:59 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: esshup]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
esshup-

this would be the plan. it is already a natural bowl. Just thought we could build up around the outside and have a nice 5 acre pond or so and pump from creek if need be. there is roughly a 60-70 acre watershed to this area. this is not even counting the creek and you could leave the creek along one side outside of the pond.

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#445382 - 04/26/16 03:01 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: bronconaegerski]
bronconaegerski Offline


Registered: 06/12/13
Posts: 17
Loc: missouri
one other thing, a couple miles down the road their are two ponds at different elevation that have water running through them on one side of the road, the second is in the floodplain, on the other side there are a series of three dug ponds that are much further in the flood plain. i would imagine the dug ponds are part of some kind of conservation project?

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#445412 - 04/26/16 07:14 PM Re: Building a pond in a floodplain... [Re: John Fitzgerald]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5588
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: John F
Usually, "they" won't permit a private levee in a flood plain if it alters the flow of flood waters to make them higher at any point off the property the levee is on.


+1 My pond is in a 100 year flood plain. In Illinois, at least when I dug my pond in 2013, it was ok to build a pond in a flood plain but I could not raise the grade more than 1 foot, so no berm/levee allowed.


Edited by Bill D. (04/26/16 07:15 PM)
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