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#193060 - 11/21/09 05:32 PM Adding crayfish to the pond
esshup Offline
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I drove down to Indy yeaterday and met Rex to get the crayfish. I finally got around to getting them in the pond this afternoon. There were a total of 5 dead ones out of 10# worth. I counted the ones that I put in the pond - 221 were dispersed in 4 different areas.


Edited by esshup (04/08/16 07:16 PM)
Edit Reason: bad photo links
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#193061 - 11/21/09 05:46 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
jakeb Offline
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Gah now I want some...
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#193096 - 11/22/09 01:59 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: jakeb]
Ric Swaim Offline
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That's called a double pincher crawdad though it's a misnomer cause they don't pinch with but one claw at a time.
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#193114 - 11/22/09 10:22 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Ric Swaim]
Sunil Offline
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esshup, did you already have, or did you make some rock beds for your new crawdaddies?
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#193123 - 11/22/09 11:12 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Sunil]
esshup Offline
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Sunil:

Where the inflow pipe is for the water that comes into the pond in the Spring, I placed 10 tons of 8"-10" rip-rap, and on the other side of the pond there is between 40 and 60 tons of broken concrete, plus between 400 and 500 cinderblocks in another spot, about 50' from the concrete. I released them in the rocky areas, hoping they will have enough places to hide from the LMB and the CC.
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#193127 - 11/22/09 11:22 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
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Sounds like some good cover for them... I sure hope a bunch survive the winter and make sweet love come spring!
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#193131 - 11/22/09 11:36 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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I have a 300 gallon and a 100 gallon stock tanks sunk in the ground by the house. I added 10 to each tank, hoping that without predators they will do just that. I'll keep them open this winter, and put a bunch of cut pieces of PVC in there for homes. I'll check them this coming late spring to see if any have eggs.

On another note, my neighbor has a pond in the woods that is shallow, maybe 5' deep at the most and during dry summers it will go almost completely dry. He doesn't do anything to or with the pond, and he said that I could use it if I wanted to. I was thinking of seeing how well it would work for raising baitfish. The pond is about 40' x 60'.

It's completely surrounded by trees. I'll take some pics today. It is in a sort of a low area, and when the woods floods, so does the pond. If the pond has fish in it during the Spring, the fish will probably be swimming in the woods as well. The water does go from his pond to mine in the Spring as well. I know that the pond is devoid of fish right now, last summer it was dry for 2 months.

Should I wait 'till the water goes down in the Spring before stocking it? My concern is if I put fish in it now, they might die over the winter, or be washed away in the Spring.


Edited by esshup (11/22/09 11:42 AM)
Edit Reason: neighbor's pond info.
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#193136 - 11/22/09 12:16 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
esshup Offline
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I took some pics of the pond and I'll post them in the raising forage and bait forum.
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#193637 - 11/27/09 09:51 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
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I hope this species are not tunnel borers. With the seepage problems you have they could make it worse.
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#193645 - 11/28/09 12:28 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Cecil Baird1]
DavidV Offline
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Registered: 02/21/09
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Just got a good deal for crayfish, crawdads, mudbugs, for 2.75/lb. Will be adding at least 50lb's next week to the pond. Why not, just got a gator on the game cam coming out of the new pond. LA in N. Tex., go figure.
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#193646 - 11/28/09 12:34 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: DavidV]
CJBS2003 Offline
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Gotta post that pic...
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#193652 - 11/28/09 08:19 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: CJBS2003]
ewest Offline
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Put a few craws in the woods pond. It sounds like a great place for them.
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#193661 - 11/28/09 10:51 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: ewest]
Bill Cody Offline
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You bought crayfish and don't know the species? That is like buying fish and not knowing what species they are. Some species can be very detrimental to aquatic ecosystems and do more harm than good. Some crayfish form tunnels in the banks of the pond, many species when abundant denude plants and habitat. Some species are fairly aggressive, defensive and it is hard for fish to catch and eat them.

I suggest that whenever one buys crayfish to ask for the common and scientific name and trust that the batch from the supplier is not contaminated with other harmful or non-native species. Moving exotic species of crayfish from state to state is unwise and probably against the law. Many crayfish are nomads and on wet damp nights will travel from water body to water body spreading the new species to areas where native crayfish can be impacted and sometimes eliminated. There a lots of examples of exotic species and not just crayfish causing problems of upsetting the balance of natural communities.


Edited by Bill Cody (11/28/09 11:07 AM)
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#193670 - 11/28/09 12:39 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Bill Cody]
esshup Offline
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Bill:

The crayfish came from Hartley's via Rex. Hartley's nor Mr. Lusk knew the species. Hartley's called it a "Green crayfish". The pic of the crawdad is in the first post, and they look exactly like the crayfish that are in the local lake. I took them out of the container and stocked them into the pond one at a time, and they all looked the same other than the immature ones, which look exactly like the immature ones in the local lake as well.

Do you know of any place on the internet that I can look to try to identify them?

You are absolutely correct, take Rusty crayfish for instance!

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#193676 - 11/28/09 02:25 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
Theo Gallus Offline
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Cody sent me a bunch of info so I could try to identify Crawdads once.

You have to discern distinguishing characteristics on parts I didn't even know they had.
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#193844 - 11/30/09 06:45 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
stumpy041486 Offline
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Registered: 07/24/05
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Where did you purchase the crayfish? Are these for stocking ponds or are they for eating? I use live crayfish alot to fish, but I can't get them right now. I would love to find a source for this time of year.

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#193850 - 11/30/09 07:05 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: stumpy041486]
esshup Offline
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A while back Bob Lusk posted about Hartley's having some crayfish available because they were seining one (or more) of their ponds. I met Rainman on one of his runs and picked them up from him. You're right, this time of the year they are really scarce.
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#193870 - 11/30/09 09:24 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
Bill Cody Offline
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When I Googled "green crayfish" I got lots of items several of them were asian species which I hope and assume you did not receive from Hartley's.
Crayfish species are identified and separated using features of the claws (chelae), shape of the rostrum (snout), shape of the areola (hour glass marking on carapace-back of shell), and shape of gonopods (sperm transfer structures). Genrally to the untrained person all crayfish look basically alike unless they have some unusual distinctive features.

One pretty good website for crayfish from central US is:
http://mdc.mo.gov/nathis/arthopo/crayfish/varcraw.htm

If someone would send me a "green crayfish" preserved in rubbing alcohol, I would identify it.
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#193885 - 12/01/09 12:45 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Bill Cody]
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If I had to guess, I'd say those are Northern Crayfish, but without holding one in the hand and examining, it's next to impossible to say.
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#193892 - 12/01/09 09:30 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Weissguy]
Cecil Baird1 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Weissguy
If I had to guess, I'd say those are Northern Crayfish, but without holding one in the hand and examining, it's next to impossible to say.


I don't know Weissguy. "Northern Crayfish" is pretty general isn't it? According to one source 350 of the worlds's 500 species live in the United States. I wonder how many species live in the northern U.S. or is there really a species called "Northern Crayfish?"
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#193898 - 12/01/09 10:28 AM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Cecil Baird1]
Bill Cody Offline
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Actually there is a Northern crayfish, at least there was a northern crayfish and it is now supposed to be called:
Virile (formerly Northern) crayfish-Oronectes virilis ( Hagen).
This Virile crayfish looks very similar to the Calico or Papershell crayfish. As you will read the range of the Virile crayfish has been extended due to accidental bait bucket introductions.
Soapbox - They should not use "accidental" bait bucket introductions. Just about every fisherman that dumps a bait bucket does it consciously and intentionally when done fishing; very rarely is it an "accident". This is why it is highly suggested that pondowners do NOT allow anglers to fish with minnows in ponds; due to "accidental" introductions of "bait". IMO The information should also include wide scale introductions across the US from fish farmers and pond stockers. If a fish farm is selling crayfish they shouild at least know what actual species they are selling. It that too much to ask? Off Soapbox.

IMO using color markings solely as way to separate crayfish is very risky business IF one is trying to get an accurate identification. Many times habitat, environment, nutrition, and genetic diversity can all influence body colors.
See the MO crayfish website for a picture of Virile which looks like a several other common crayfish across the US.
http://mdc.mo.gov/nathis/arthopo/crayfish/varcraw.htm

From the Missouri website above for Virile crayfish it says:
""This crayfish is green-to-reddish-brown without prominent markings. The pincers are green with orange tips, and in adults are conspicuously studded with whitish knobs. Paired blotches run lengthwise along the abdomen. The rostrum has conspicuous notches or spines near its tip. This is one of our largest crayfish, with adults reaching a length of 4.8 inches or more.

The native range of the virile (“Northern”) crayfish encompasses all of the Prairie Region and a band of streams along the northern and western border of the Ozarks. Small, widely scattered populations now occur elsewhere in the Ozarks as accidental bait-bucket introductions. In the Prairie Region this crayfish is very abundant in the pools of rocky streams.

The virile crayfish is the largest of crayfish in the Prairie Region. The calico (“papershell”) crayfish differs from this species in having pincers that are gray or purple, a pale lengthwise stripe along the middle of the carapace and abdomen, and a rostrum without lateral notches or spines.""




Edited by Bill Cody (12/01/09 10:50 AM)
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#193917 - 12/01/09 03:40 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Bill Cody]
Weissguy Offline
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Thanks Bill. I was indeed talking about the crayfish formally known as "Northern" (Virile).

In my area, it is by far the most abundant crayfish. It is one of the most popularly used crayfish for bait as well, which as Bill mentioned, has resulted in even more abundance. It's not a "bad" crayfish, but it is extremely adaptable and hardy. This has caused it to push into other crayfish zones and basically wipe them out. Missouri has an incredible variety of crayfish, but bait bucket releases threaten many very rare species.
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#443227 - 04/08/16 06:06 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5866
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Esshup,

Any update on how your crayfish stocking in this thread turned out? Did they survive and thrive? I see you stocked 221. How big is the pond?


Edited by Bill D. (04/08/16 06:06 PM)
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#443233 - 04/08/16 07:19 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: Bill D.]
esshup Offline
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Bill:

Not enough cover in the pond to keep a large population. There are a few, but I wouldn't consider them to be "abundant".

Some years previously, I stocked between 500 and 1,000 crawfish that I caught from a lake. When I renovated the pond not a one was to be found. I'm thinking that between the CC and the LMB in the pond, they ate every last one.
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#443235 - 04/08/16 08:03 PM Re: Adding crayfish to the pond [Re: esshup]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5866
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Thanks for the reply Scott. I just ordered PSC for my pond and am trying to get info on stocking rates to optimize my chance of success. (I can still adjust the order quantity). If you have any of your usual sage advice, please post it on my "On Mutt Pond" thread in "Types of Fish to Choose" as I'm trying to document the process I'm going thru there, and eventually the results, so others can maybe learn from my mistakes/successes. In that thread you can see what habitat I've put in place for them and an estimate of what fish are in the pond.
Link to pg6 of the thread showing the rock lined shoreline:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=443300&page=6

Anybody else have advice/thoughts/opinions please do the same! smile

Thanks,

Bill


Edited by Bill Cody (04/09/16 10:41 AM)
Edit Reason: added link
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