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Pond update... Construction was progressing nicely, then it started raining again. We needed the rain so I'm not griping...

The dam is now full width and about seven feet short of the top. The contractors went with a 4 to 1 slope front and back for added strength on the dam. Lot of extra dirt, but very good clay and should be for keeps. They also did two or three extra keyways where the drainage ditch previously went through just to be safe.

We've moved the spillway location from original plan to a place where it could also serve as the spillway for another adjacent, smaller pond (maybe 1.5 or 2 acres?) that I hope to build next summer.

The rain this week resulted in about 3 feet of water near the dam of the pond and will prevent me from getting some of the topsoil out that I had planned. I really should have gotten that out before dam construction started, but we did get most of it... They put quite a bit of the good rich dirt on top of the island. I plan to plant a bunch of flowers all over the island next year. The water won't have any effect on the dam construction.

The contractors hit some rock a few feet down on part of the contour where they were going to get a large amount of clay for the dam. As a result, they are getting dirt from another area of the pond (previously hills) for the dam and removing more clay between the island and the bank (extending the gap). In effect, making the pond's surface area bigger, but with a smaller amount of deep water. The acre and a half or so where they hit rock would be under around 3-4 feet of water as is. I plan to take my trackhoe and brother's dump truck to remove some more so the water level is around 4.5 feet deep in that area leaving a lip between this area and main lake body. I will also get a few semi-truck loads of pit run rock (pea gravel, sand, small rocks) and dump in that area. Should be a great place for swimming and possibly fish spawning. Hopefully, the lip should help keep the gravel / sand in that area instead of down on the lake bottom.

I bought a pontoon boat about a week ago. Kinda looking forward to putting it on the lake most of the time. Thinking about docks, boat houses, and fish feeders, fertilizer, seeding, and keeping out tresspassers a bit more now...

Thinking seriously about stocking fathead minnows, crayfish, and grass shrimp this fall and not stocking any other fish until next spring. Having difficulty finding a source for grass shrimp (see creating food chain - grass shrimp), but do have a lead I need to check out Tuesday.

Pretty much planning to build some mini-dams near the head of the three major valleys feeding water to the pond. My thoughts are that I would build these little dams above the water level in the main pond with their own spillways into the main one. I would then stock these ponds with fathead minnows, crayfish, and grass shrimp only (no predator fish). My thoughts are that this would serve as a constant self maintaining source of forage that would enter the main pond with each rain... May be less chance this supplemental forage supply being decimated by the predator fish this way (as long as no one "helps" me out by tossing in some predators).

Well... That is the pond's contruction status. Any thoughts or suggestions?


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More rain. Now about 8-9 feet of water in the pond and a 70% chance for more rain today. It shouldn't jeopardize the dam, but will change plans a bit.


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rangersedge i am from east central illinois and am looking to have a pond dug who is going to do it for you are they cheap and can you give me the number to their office. thanks and good luck

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Rangersedge, How far north are you in Illinois? I saw a few places in S.IL. with shrimp, but none in the north. Keystone hatcheries or their affiliate sells pond craws for stocking. Not sure how far south they will go though.
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robert,

Do you have the names or numbers of the places you saw in southern, ill. that had the shrimp. I'd be interested in them since I'm building a pond there.

kevin b

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Catfish: I sent you an email earlier this week. Holler if you didn't get it.

Robert: I am probably around 100 miles almost straight east of St. Louis and close to the intersections of Interstates 57 and 70. 130 miles southeast of Springfield. 90 miles northeast of Carbondale.

All: We seeded the island this morning. The main dam should be finished this week. I am renting a dirt scoop to do some additional work myself. Mainly removal of some more topsoil and building the three previously mentioned mini-ponds for forage. I will also be using my trackhoe to do some contouring yet. Overall, I think it has gone well considering the rains and etc. Just trivia, the last guestimate I heard was that the dam contained roughly 43,000 cubic yards of dirt. I'll probably get some GPS mapping done later this year or early next year (once it fills up) for actual dimensions of everything.


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Learned another lesson with my pond project. Leave the work to the professionals! ;0

In a location where the contractors had anticipated getting much of the dirt for the dam, they unexpectedly hit a very hard shelf. Well... It didn't take long to figure out that the shelf would be just perfect for a swimming and fish spawning area so it was left. Only thing... I wanted the water level between 4 and 5 feet. To me, the shelf appeared to be too shallow (at around 3 foot).

Well... I then took it upon myself to take my trackhoe and loosen up the top 18" or so of an area bigger than a volleyball court. You guessed it... A couple days later, the contractor shot it with the laser. Water level had already been between 4 and 5 feet and would now be between 5.5 to 6.5 feet. Which leads to my question...

The lip that was created will help keep the pea gravel / sand that I wanted to put in that area anyway from washing to the deep area. Realistically, we are now just talking about a lot more of it. I can't afford much at $12 per ton.

What problems would I bring upon myself if I got some sand/gravel out of an old creek for that area? The creek could potentially have some limited runoff related to upstream hog confinement and oil field operations. I am most specifically interested in potential problems related to chemicals and organisms I might be introducing to my pond. If some, would it make any difference if I let the sand gravel set on dry land for a year to dry out before moving to beach area? The creek flows within approximately 200 yards of, but not into the pond (separate watershed).

Thanks in advance!


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Rangersedge,
It must be a fairly large creek if you are able to get enough sand/gravel to make it worth while. Therefore with that much running water the stream should be safe unless there has been some major chemical leaching from manufactoring ect. upstream. Any lifeforms brought in with the sand/gravel other than fish should benifit your new lake. If it were mine I would do as you said & store it close by long enough to let any errant minnows or fish eggs die before utilizing.
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Ric: Thanks for the info. The creek isn't huge, but it should be big enough to get quite a bit of sand. Removing some sand should also benefit the creek so should be a win win situation.

The big dam is finished. The lake has been limed and fertilized. Some of the banks are now seeded. Some of the grass on the island is coming up. We received a nice, gentle rain last night that should be perfect for helping it germinate / grow.

We will soon begin building 4 small dams to catch sediment and prevent it from entering the main lake. These sediment ponds will be stocked with only fathead minnows, crayfish, and grass shrimp (some day). That should provide forage base to main body with each rain. I should receive several pounds of fathead minnows on October 2nd for stocking in the main part that has water in it.


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The lake was stocked with 40 pounds of fathead minnows on October 2nd.

We haven't had enough free time to build the small dams yet, but we still have time.


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Rangersedge,
I'm envious. My new pond hasn't happened yet. The logging was slowed by all the rain. The pond area is now cleared but the loggers have to cross it with their skidder, so it will still be a while longer but not long. I want the dam in before the ground starts freezing. Was hoping to have stocked forage fish by now \:\( . Oh well at least I have this site to get ideas like your sediment/forage ponds!
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We have one of the mini-dams almost done. Should finish it yet tonight.

I am still cleaning out some of the topsoil from valleys and etc. Have topsoil about six feet deep in many spots... Which leads me to a dilemna... In cleaning some topsoil out of a ditch, I noticed water coming out. Overnight it filled up some and I'm thinking springs...

I am enthused about the potential upside of having springs, but I am concerned about the possibility of having a large siphon (spring) near the bottom of my lake.

I could probably fill the area back in with clay and pack it. It would have about 25' of water above it so lots of pressure. Should I fill the area with Clay and forget the topsoil or dig out the rest of the topsoil?


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I have barged ahead with removing more of the topsoil out of the valleys where there may be springs. I have people telling me I should and others saying I shouldn’t. Frankly, I’m more than a bit anxious about it, but…

I should get the second of the mini-dams done this weekend.

I have had several requests for pictures.

Chris “tritonvt” has generously offered to host pictures of the pond for me. Three of them are located here.

http://www.geocities.com/mc_character/pondboss/pictures.html

I’ve got a lot more that were just developed and I haven’t looked at yet. As soon as I have the opportunity to sort through those, I’ll forward some of the best ones to Chris for future posting.

Thanks to Bob Koerber’s post, I have found a good aerial view of my pond location. Obviously, the pond wasn’t there when the photo was taken. The pond now covers the enlarged valley in the center of the map with another big branch on north side that doesn’t show up as well. The dam is next to the woods at the east end of the valley running east and west. I’ll forward it to Chris soon too.


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Rangersedge, did you lake fill up last night? We got a helluva lot of rain last night. My lake is just about full now(again) was a foot low due to summers lack of rain, By the way, I'm not to far from you and was wondering if I could come out and see your project sometime? Pictures are great but sure would like to see the the BIG PICTURE!!! send me an E-mail at bassnut17@yahoo.com

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Brad:

It didn't fill up, but it sure got deeper! I had heard that it was supposed to rain so I put a couple flags at the water edge so I could tell how much it raised. Well... I checked this morning and couldn't even find the flags as the tops of them were too far underwater to see. The smallest of the sediment (forage) ponds (the only mini-dam I have managed to finish yet) was nearly filled.

I'm almost to the point of accepting that I might not get all the work I want done this winter. The consequences of that would be draining much of it next summer to finish what I want done. I don't really want to have to do that, but there is still quite a bit of topsoil that I would like out, some shaping I would like to do (mainly underwater contours / structure), the other three mini-dams to finish, and etc. I tried working on one mini-dam last weekend. The 10 wheeler (ex-army dump truck) spun enough on my first load that I gave up on moving much dirt. So I tried doing some other stuff with the trackhoe. Sliding sideways down a slope for about 10 feet in that got my attention. It was slick enough that I never really accomplished too much before having to use the bucket to get myself back up the hill.

Although most new pond owners can't wait for rains to fill up their ponds, I've been hoping for clear weather so I can do more to it. I've also been kicking myself for not allowing myself to take more time away from my work to spend on it this summer and fall.

I'll probably add a coulda / shoulda post to this thread some time in the future so others could benefit from knowing what I did wrong and what I did right.

Sure you can come over and check it out. I'll send you an email. Holler if you don't get it.

Also, I'm hoping to email Chris a bunch of photos yet tonight so there might be some on that link in the future.

Anyone with advice regarding good siphon system design here? I would like a system that I could fairly easily take apart and use in different ponds. It needs to be large enough to drain a LOT of water in a reasonable time. Realistically, how far up could I siphon the water (ie. trying to estimate how low I'll be able to drain it with siphon system)?

Jeff


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Rangersedge,
I remember you asking for ideas for something to plant to discourage poachers .. well, with the same thought in mind I am considering reeds, or I think it's called river cane. Where I've seen it growing it's so thick you can forget about going through it. You'll have to go around. Only thing is I wouldn't plant it where it can't be controled with a bush-hog. It does spread! You really can't get through it!!
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Ric:

Thanks for remembering and thinking about my trespasser concerns. I'm not looking forward to that part of having it finished.

I've done a yahoo search for river cane so I could learn more about it. Most of the links I've found so far are about basket making or flutes or blowguns or it being edible so I guess it is versatile. The only really relevant link I've found so far follows.

http://www.tva.gov/river/landandshore/stabilization/plants/river_cane.htm

It certainly appears that it would be thick enough to prevent people from fishing except from a boat. Any downsides? How deep into the water will it grow? How easy is it to control?

A brief update on the lake's status at present...

The water level is probably around 14 feet at the deepest point. It has spread out considerably, but I'm guessing the water volume is still only about 20-25% of full.

Much of the topsoil I still wanted to remove is now under water courtesy of the last major rain. Unless we have really freakish winter weather, I've resigned myself to draining it down to the 10' level or so next summer. This will allow me to complete topsoil removal, the mini-dams, contouring / structure, ensuring 3 foot depths next to shore, etc. Allowing it to fill this winter will result in several positives as I'll be able to see exactly where the water level is and have more time to plan.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda... I did much of this backwards. I should have removed all the trees and topsoil asap. I should have then built the mini-dams. Then had the contractor build the main dam. Next time...

I've learned a lot and the folks on this forum have been wonderful and very helpful... Which reminds me of another coulda, shoulda, woulda... I talked with lakedoctor via phone a couple times. He helped me with some choices at no cost. I appreciate his free assistance, but doing it over, I would ask him to come over and check it out in person if he had time. I'm confident it would have been worth whatever it had cost.


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Rangersedge,
Here's a couple of links to sellers:
http://www.lewisbamboo.com/
http://www.midatlanticbamboo.com/index.htm
I have never seen cane growing in water & it won't grow too far from shore if planted where the ground away from the water is naturally dry. IE: not constantly moist.
The "coulda, shoulda, woulda"'s are always there. I've resigned myself to the fact I can only do so much reasearch, spend so much money & so much time. I always think I should have done more reguardless of the project. I always see the mistakes which usually go unnoticed by everyone else. I do learn from them but also have learned to look past them to what I am going to accomplish in the end & get to enjoy for the rest of my days! I envy you with your 10 ac lake & all the coulda's, shoulda's, woulda's!
And I've said it before I am SO thankful for this site, the magazine & books, and ALL the help the Greg's & Lakedoctors's have so kindly given!!

Ric


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Ric:
Those links to the bamboo distributors made for some interesting reading. Now I'm seriously thinking about planting some bamboo. Do you know if bamboo guzzles water like willow trees or if it would leave a lot of dead vegetation in the water like cattails?
Thanks!
Jeff


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Jeff, please try to find out how invasive that stuff can be. went through the area on my way to Mt. Vernon for weekend. did some fishing in west Frankfurt and Pinkneyville. Would hate for that stuff to get into all the strip mines and larger lakes down south.
Robert B

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Robert: I just got back from Mt. Vernon about an hour ago. I did read quite a bit about bamboo from the websites and their links. From the info on the websites, it sounds like it should be relatively easy to control in my particular situation even though many are listed as "aggressive". I will do some more reading before ordering. Jeff


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Ranger,
There are so many varieties. All I have experience with did not grow in water & did not even grow to the edge of water. It likes moist soil but also likes it's feet dry. There may be some that will I don't know. As I said earlier I won't plant it where I can't control it with a bush-hog. It can be invasive on land over a period of years. I'm sorry I can't comment on the amount of water intake or the litter. I'm still learning too.

Robert,
It can't be carried from pond to pond by birds, boats or whatever. It will only cause a problem if left neglected in suitable soils where your plant it.
Ric


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Robert: Thanks for your advice. One of the greatest things about this forum is that you can hear pros and cons of everything from crappie to cane. Many of the canes I read about are listed as "aggressive", but it sounds like they need certain moisture, temperature, etc. conditions to survive. I'll be able to bushhog entirely around my lake. That said, I've never actually seen any "live", but we do have cattails and some other kind of reed grass that grow rampant around wet areas. I'll have concerns if they spread by air carried seed. If they just spread by rhizomes and don't grow in the water, I'm not too concerned. Wisconsin... Hmmm... Any grass shrimp up that way? Are you down this way often? ;-)

Ric: Some of the varieties of bamboo sound pretty neat. I'm a little surprised how expensive they are given that they are classified as aggressive spreaders, but maybe it wouldn't take that many. They could be a neat addition. I still wonder how much water they take, if they leave a lot of debris in the water, and what type of market there is around here for the bamboo products. I am naturally inclined to order some different varieties including the biggest, but I am a little concerned that it might make my lake more obvious to people driving past. I am also a bit concerned that they would withstand the temperatures here.


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Jeff, only grass shrimp I've sampled have been in flooded areas or swamps around big muddy R. and near Mississippi R. good idea about the plants drawing attention to your lake, that tall grass is everywhere around reclaimed strip mines. I bet a rattlesnake crossing sign or a sign proclaiming a rattlesnake protection area would deter a few people. Cattails alone will spread and make an effective barrier up here, not sure how fast with all that clay down there. That lack of fertility may play a roll in establishment of other species. I get down there about twice a year. Had last open water trip yesterday until march. I would like to get down in spring to do some prespawn fishing around the shawnee forest.
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I re-read this and several other pondboss threads tonight. Again, I'm struck with how much good information is on here and what a great site it is. I'm also really struck with how much I have learned over the past eight months and how much I still don't know. Thanks for everyone's help, advice, and interest!

The pond is probably about 4 feet below the spillway yet. It will likley be full before the end of January. I didn't get three of the sediment/forage pond dams done or as much topsoil removed as desired. I fully intend to start draining it shortly after I have had a chance to mark the water levels so I can still do those next summer.

We dug the spillway down 5 feet from the top of the dam. After reading and talking with others more, I'm really tempted to try filling back in about three feet of that (we stacked the removed dirt nearby). If I do that, the lake will be slightly larger and obviously three feet deeper. My island will be smaller unless I use dug out topsoil to build it up - which I probably would. Would I really gain anything or is that something that could always be done later? What are your thoughts as to leaving only two feet of freeboard?

As soon as the ground is frozen hard enough and time permits, I intend to start hauling sand / gravel from a creek to the pond. I'm hoping to put in quite a bit.

My thoughts are firming up regarding species to stock. The bluegill and redears are a given for me. Although I like to catch and eat them, I won't stock crappie in it. I think I will go ahead with channel cats initially with plans to harvest those out.

Eight months ago, I couldn't have dreamed it, but now I'm seriously considering not stocking largemouth bass. I'm really considering stocking smallmouth bass, hybrid stripers, and walleyes as the predator fishes. I realize that reproduction of any of those species may not occur and that I would run the risk of bluegill stunting at 4" or so. We have some other ponds with largemouth bass up to 7 pounds that I could transfer from if needed. What are your thoughts about not initially stocking largemouth?

I've been monitoring the threads on grass shrimp, crawfish, and etc. to get sources for those. By not getting everything done when planned, I will likely postpone getting those until next year when the sediment/forage ponds are done and filled.

Now that I've got all this water in the pond, I'm a bit perplexed as to the specific best way to get most of it back out so I can do more work next summer. I've pretty much decided to try to rig up a siphon system. I'm thinking I will probably need pipe/hose of 6" diameter to make good progress. I've been to the ponddampiping website for ideas. I thought I would rig up a one way valve on the pond side near water level, and a twist or gate valve on the downhill side, a couple pipes sticking up on the dam with twist valves (one for water hose from pump to fill up pipe and other for air to escape from with idea to shut both after water starts coming out the second), and some type of basket and float at water end so stays near but under the surface. I'd like to keep costs relatively low, but would like ability to be able to break it down to use at other ponds too. I'm not an engineer and have no idea how much water would siphon through a 6" smooth pipe per hour or how far up siphoning will pull water, etc.

Any advice, thoughts, etc. greatly appreciated.


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Nice BGxRES
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