Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Restocking of 43 1/2 acre lake

I live in a fairly new subdivision with a 43 1/2 acre lake. In August of 2000, we had a major fish kill due to an algae bloom cause by a food processing plant discharging excessive phosporus into the stream feeding our lake. We lost about 4000 pounds of fish including 10 pound bass. EPD is now closely monitoring the discharge and within 2 years the discharge will be sent to the county sewage system and no longer be placed into the stream. After an electroshock analysis, we added 2000 F1 bass to the lake in October of 2001 because the bluegill/crappie population went rampart as we had no bass left. We added 500 8-10 inch, 1000 6-8 inch, and 500 4 inch bass. We were trying to get bass into the lake while keeping the costs reasonable. The fishing was great last summer. On October 28, 2002 the developer lowered the lake to about 1 1/2 acres and is now in the final stages of removing the silt. He has agreed to replace the fish with size and quantity to the pre-dredging numbers. The deepest part of the lake is 15-17 feet with about a third of the lake being 6-8 feet deep. Another 1/2 of the lake is 3 to 4 feet deep.
Two weeks ago we had another electroshock analysis done on the remaining 1 1/2 acres of water. The remaining fish were estimated as follows: 600 white crappie, 100 yellow and brown bullhead, 25 green sunfish, 50 golden shiner, 250 redbreast, 30 largemounth bass, 500 bluegill, 100 redear, and 10 grass carp.
My question is this: Should we replace the bass, bluegill and carp or should we rotenone the remaining fish from the 1 1/2 acres and start over? What are your suggestions on size and quantites?
Thanks!!!

I'm not clear on the electrofishing data. of those numbers that you described, did they sample those fish or are they trying to make an educated guess on numbers of fish left in that 1 1/2 acre pool? It really makes no difference, it wont change my opinion of what you should do. I just queston how accurate those numbers are if that is a guess at numbers of fish left.

the solution to your problem is simple. drain the remaining porton of the lake. 1.5 acres is too large to try and treat with rotenone. I like to drain lakes down to puddles (if possible) before treating.

Even if you have to rent a few large pumps, get the water out. then your rotenone cost wont be outragous, and the labor to pick up dead fish will go down.

Since you are here in Georgia - Did you know you can get fish for new/renovated ponds for free? Call the Dept of Natral Resources in Social Circle for the application. you will get your bream this fall and bass next spring. and yup- it is absolutley free. you cant get more cost effective than that.

with the lake this far down you might as well take it all the way home. if you dont I would expect problems with those brown and yellow bullheads and crappie. they seem to be more resistant to rotenone. if they get out of control you will be looking at stocking adult bass to help correct the situation. Adult bass are expensive. Bullheads are known as nest raiders and if extrememly crowded you will have problems with them.

If you cant get the 1.5 acres drained out, I would not even try and rotenone. You will probably only kill the most desirable fish (bass and bream). just let it fill back up and assess the damage then. If you go this route, I would work very hard at getting the crappie, and bullheads out while the pond is 1.5 acres. Pull out all the stops, use traps and trot lines and hook and line. I hope your electrofishing contractor did not throw back these fish after the survey. shocking up the fish may work as well, not sure how cost effective that is (depends on who you are using to shock)

thats my take, hope it helps

What Shan did not say(so I will) is that he is a fishery biologist working throughout Georgia. My suggestion hire someone like Shan or Greg Grimes because the decisions you make now are going to effect your lake for years. Money well spent.

Also Shan the state is limiting pond owners to 1000 free fish no matter the size of the pond or lake. Also I don't know if a community owned lake can recieve free fish.

Bill and Shan, I was hoping to see more response about her question and hopefully will. I'm the one working on the pond, but she and more the point the developer wants to hear the opinion of other folks. Thanks, Shan for your response and I hope others will help with the situation and give their recommendations. I'm trying to stay out of it since I have already made recommendations known to the community.
Thanks in advance for your response.

I'm certainly not a fisheries biologist but I think if I had the opportunity to start fresh with a 43.5 acre pond, I would do it. Especially if Greg Grimes was managing it.

One thought. Even though you will start out with no undesirable fish, the Green Sunfish and Bullheads will get back in. Also, some well meaning type will put some crappie in. However, with a good predator prey balance before that happens, the effect should be minimized. With proper management, you could have those 10 pound bass back in a relatively short time.

This lake needs to start fresh. Get rid of all existing fish. Most important is to set goals for your lake. I know this is difficult with a community lake. Do you only want to catch 10 pound LMB or do you want a more diverse fishery where fish are more catchable but than 10 pounder is harder to find. Stay away from crappie.
What would I stock; coopernose bream, redear bream, channel cats, LMB, hybrid stripers, and fathead minnows.
Have fun!

Dave I understand someone stocking crappie
but how would green sunfish and bullheads get back in?

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions. Greg Grimes did the electroshock analysis and I have great respect for what he's recommending with the restocking of the lake. I think our developer is still unsure that starting over is the best to go and I wanted to get some reinforcements to Greg's recommendations.
We have some fish that have migrated up the creek and we can't get rid of those, so some of them will probably come back in the lake once it's refilled.
I also enjoyed reading your comments on fish habitat. Since the lake is still down (pending the water draining again from this storm today), we've put in some Christmas trees. I never would have thought of using pallet flats but have six of them sitting in my back yard right now. They'll work great in some of the areas right behind the house. Thanks again for your suggestions!!!

Bill, I have no idea how non-stocked fish get in a pond. I do not believe in the story of birds carrying them on their feet. However, I have heard several pond pro's say that if you leave a pond alone for a couple of years, it will have fish in it. The ones I have talked to say they don't have any idea how it happens either.

In my own version of a money pit, I have Warmouth, green sunfish and some kind of beautiful yellow sunfish. I didn't stock them. I also have mussels. This was new ground when I built the pond 2.5 years ago.

In a question to Bob Lusk a year or so ago about mosquito fish, he told me he could get me some but I would probably get them without stocking them. How? He said he didn't know either.

Bill,

I did not know the state limited the numbers of fish as I never order any. I think they should do away with the program all together. Its direct competetion for guys like me, Greg, and all the private fish hatcheries. The way I see it if you have enough cash to build a pond these days then you have the cash to stock the fish.

glad to hear its Greg on the job. there are several companies around that wont do as good of a job. If Greg did your shocking then your numbers are accurate.

I remember when that job came around for bidding. I talked to someone over there but never received the bid package. I figured Greg would get it anyway, being in his "backyard".

As far as fish that show up in ponds, my theory is they get in during storm events, moving through ditches, drains, etc. If your pond flows around the emergency spillway (even once)then its connected to the stream behind the pond. but I have seen some ponds that could not have been flooded that have some strange species of fish. cant explain those but I'm not buying the fish eggs on the ducks feet either.

I had a friend who's neighbors field was tiled into a concrete box in the middle. Out of no where carp showed up. The only fish in the box. They lived in there, still do as far as I know. Is it impossible that fish evolved eggs that stuck to birds feet so they could spread to new water? At the very least many fish have eggs that stick to the substrate. To me the question isn't if the eggs could stick its How long can they be out of water?

TyW33, I guess the eggs in the middle of the egg mass could stay fertile out of the water for awhile. They could stay moist. Now, I have never paid much attention to ducks feet and most long billed birds around my stock tank, I generally view only through my rear sight. Also, some fish, I think the word is pelagic, drop their eggs in moving water and some hatch.

However, members of the sunfish family, including LMB, require work by the parent. The male selects a nesting site where sunlight can penetrate. After laying, the male fertilizes the eggs and guards them from ever present, hungry predators. Ever watch that? I'm surprised that the "perch" don't get them all. The male also fans the nest to aerate and keep debris from settling on them. When the fry finally hatch, the male still protects them until they leave the nest. Now, since everything in the water eats everything smaller, they are now a target that dad doesn't protect. The odds, even at this point are pretty lousy on ever becoming a mature fish. With the exception of the sunlit nest, catfish do the same thing. I guess it is possible that an egg mass carried thru the air and randomly deposited in water could stay viable and hatch on its own but the odds should be astronomical. Talk to the guys at a state fish hatchery about how carefully they have to monitor conditions just to get a hatch under controlled conditions. And they have all of the resources to make it happen.

Like I said, it is possible but the odds make it highly improbable. But then, I still play the Lotto sometimes. Anything is possible.

I have used alot of wood pallets in my pond. Hard wood pallets will last longer than soft wood pallets. In my pond I have sunk them two ways; first I tied 5 or 6 together with nylon rope. The other way was to take four pallets and make a box open at two ends by nailing the pallets.

Lesson I learn on sinking pallets, it does not take a lot of weight to sink pallets but it does take a lot of time.

On the issue of fish getting in a pond, I remember someone posting once not to allow anyone to fish with minnows from a bait shop because trash fish can be introduced this way. What are the types of fish sold as minnows?

Most of the time, the minnows sold as baitfish are small golden shiners. This is not as much of a problem as years ago since most ponds are now bass heavy from lack of harvest. NOW... back to the topic any more folks want to chime in on their advice on the situation.

Shan,

I did put a bid package in the mail to you. I don't know what happened to it if you didn't get it. I didn't get a response back so I thought you may have been too busy to respond.
Thanks for suggestions here on the message board. Reading the responses has been very interesting and helpful.