Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Placing branches down for YP spawn

Supposed to be 70 here on Friday. I know I'm early, but I've got time..
I want to place branches around the bank for YP spawning. I had the top blow out of a big red oak last fall. Lots of long branches 12-15' long. 3-4" diameter at the base. Still have leaves attached. I was going to place a branch about every 20' as I go around the pond. Extend the smaller branches out with the base near the bank.
Should I secure them some way? I don't want them all floating out in the middle with the next big rein.
Also, I wasn't going to lay them on the dam. That's the northern bank, ok?
I may have as many as 1,200 YP in this 1 ac BOW, not sure. They are very elusive. I caught 30 nice ones last fall, and haven't seen another since. Hopefully they didn't die off after stocking.
Any suggestions? 20' apart ok? Probably have 75 branches total..
Thx
Jeff

Edit.. I plan on pulling all the branches back out after spawning.

I lay a flat piece of concrete or a brick on the base of the branch that is on the bank. The weight helps holds down the end in the water. You don't need to have the branch extend out very far into the pond - usually 4ft to 7ft max. Twigs closer to shore allow you to better see egg ribbons. YP prefer the shallower locations for eggs because this results in warmer water for quicker egg hatch. For your first YP spawn you can place branches 30-50 ft apart to see which shoreline is preferred for laying eggs in your pond layout. Then in later years use the 10ft to 20ft branch separation pattern.

You do not need to have all branches in the pond early. Once you see which shoreline is preferred then add remaining branches to that general area.

Bill, could you elaborate on how dense the branches have to be to encourage YP to use them?

i.e. 1"-2" diameter branches from the top of an Oak Tree vs. tops of a River Birch Tree that are down to 1/8" diameter and relatively dense?

Will the YP use the branches if the individual tree branches are a foot to 3 feet apart, or will they be more attracted to branches that are more closely together like branches from a bush?

Yellow perch are known to readily lay eggs on spruce and pine branches, both natural and artificial. I have seen YP growers intertwine YP egg ribbons for hatching on artificial evergreen branches. I have good success getting YP to place eggs on leafless branches that are what I call "twiggy" with numerous small stems (1/16 to 1/8" dia). I think the small twiggy stems on branches are preferred by perch compared to widely spaced larger stems such as in walnut, cottonwood, or ash trees. The small twiggy abundant stems provide numerous attachment points for the female YP to attach the egg ribbon that is then pulled/extruded from her body. Good examples of twiggy trees are hard maple, apple, plum, dogwood, redbud, lilac. Bare shrub branches are also often good substrates. I have seen YP egg ribbons interlaced among last year's stems of emergent vegetation. If stems and branches are not available the perch will extrude the egg ribbon and eventually deposit eggs on the bare pond bottom or among the rocky shoreling. I think the male YP are fertilizing the egg ribbon as it is extruded from the female.

Wow, thank you so much! Great information for a rookie (me) so very helpful.
I will use shorter branches, and fewer at first. The south side if the pond is entirely in shade, so I am thinking they will use the east or west sides. Both have shallow areas, and get some sun. (Not a lot due to shading of near by trees.)
I'll space some trees out all around. Then add where appropriate.

Hopefully having leaves on the branches doesn't cause a problem. I'll also get a water temp tomorrow.

Thank you again!

Jeff

You can try several methods and report to us your results. In Missouri with an early spring warm up, you may see YP egg ribbons as soon as last week of February or first week of March. Monitor your water temperatures and when in the steady 48F-50F range you should see eggs. What is your water clarity?

Great info for all !! So rookie please do as Bill says and keep us old boys still learning informed.
Bill, how about a heads up from you when ya see your first ones? Also, tell Korn king he drives like a Blue haired old lady.

I will follow up on this thread, as progress is made. Once again, thank you (Bill and Scott) for all the guidance.
I was at the pond this evening. Small problem. 1.5" of ice. That makes it tough to get branches placed. I can't get to the thermometer its frozen in beneath the ice.
However, we have at least two weeks of warm weather coming, so I'll have branches down, just in case.

I stack piles of branches on the ice. For me they stick together as a pile and eventually sink from the weight above the water line. Eventually they decompose enough to sing under the water completely
(a few years later). I had YP eggs last year, but hey were not fertilized. I am hoping some males from the small ones I added last year will be mature enough to fertilize this years eggs.

RAH, please forgive my ignorance but how could you tell they were not fertilized? Do the eggs change color or change their features as they are fertilized? Or as the little ones form can you see them in the eggs?

Do GSH or other predators eat the eggs or young as they are trying leave the egg?

How long till the young leave the eggs, and what happens to the empty egg ribbons?

I had several young pears succumb to fireblight a couple years back and used them for YP spawning. I wanted the option to easily remove them, so I drilled a hole in the base, attached a wire through the hole and to a t post anchored in the bank to keep everything in place. This set up has worked well.

Brook, that sounds like a great idea. I think I will try that.

I posted pictures of the eggs here and experts confirmed that they were not fertile due to the lack of a dark spot in the center of each egg.

I placed pretty long, branches all around the pond yesterday. The temps were in the 50s by the time I left, the ice was melting fairly quickly.
The idea for the longer branches was that much of the branch was up on the bank, but I still had 8 to 10' of the branch section out in the water. Hopefully they won't move.
I didn't place branches on the dam.
Supposed to be in the 70s today, I imagine I'll lose most of my ice.
I did break through the ice and retrieved my thermometer, water temp at 15' from shore and 12" deep is 36 degrees.
I'll go by Sunday to see how the branches are "staying put" with the ice thaw, and wind.
I may need more stakes etc..
Hopefully I'll see those ribbons soon!

With ice now leaving and water at 36F you are IMO about 10-16 days away from seeing yellow perch eggs. Monitor your water temperatures. However last year when ice melted later than normal, I did see the first egg ribbon 9 days later when surface water was 43F; in coldest water that I have ever seen the 1st YP eggs.

Ice will be gone Sunday, for sure. I'll check surface temps. It seems like the water stays a bit cooler in this pond. Maybe it's because last summer, was its first summer.
It was on the cooler side last summer, which was ok with me,, in August.
Might be a different story this summer now that it's on its second summer. (Not sure how age could be any factor, but the big lake a mile west of us (17,000 ac Mark Twain lake) was warmer than our little one ac pond.

Probably unnecessary worry, but how long from when I see ribbons, to when the fry swim away? (If I need to pull branches and egg ribbons out.)

My worry is that I've got 1300 YP in this one acre pond. If they all spawn, I'll have WAY too many YP.. I've got some SMB, and YSB, to help control them. Can I have too many?

If I see 1000s of egg ribbons, should I just pull the branches out? Don't want more in the pond, than it can support.

YP YOY will be hammered hard, and remember their fusiform body shape lends them to high predation rates even at age 1 and beyond. Managing excessive populations of YP, which I doubt you'll experience, is easy through angling and traps. I doubt 1% of all YP offspring make it through year 1 in presence of predator base of YP and SMB provided the BOW doesn't consist of extremely dense vegetation cover. Let the fishery tell you which direction to take - it will become readily apparent this season and those following what corrective management strategies you need to employ, if any.

I read somewhere recently that YP are relatively slow swimming which makes them easy prey. Anybody have comments on that statement?

IMO YP don't swim any slower than sunfish or even juvenile bass. For your 1 acre,,, 6-10 egg ribbons should be enough to provide a good year class of 2016 YP providing you are not over abundant with SMbass. Do you also have other forage fish such as shiners and crayfish?

If we use TJ's theory of 1% survival, 10 egg ribbons with a average 20,000 eggs each results in about 200,000 fry. The 1% survival is 2000 fingerlings and 0.5% survival is 1000 fingerlings which are probably too many 2016 recruits for your 1 ac pond.

1% was a WAG - listen to Bill and Cecil on all things yp related they are the pioneers and experts. I have never seen a fishery with YP population management issues provided there's a predator presence and not excessive vegetation present - but Bill's seen a lot more YP fisheries than I have.

I have grass shrimp, and some crayfish. We also stocked GS, but many were caught and died in grass netting (erosion matts) I had placed around the pond edges. My FHM population is still fairly significant. I have very little plant growth around the edges. Cover so far is submerged cedar trees and artificial structure I've made from PVC pipe, lots of sunken pallets, and 8" Rock. I think I'll be watching pretty closely on the ribbons. If I see too many I'll pull branches and ribbons out.
Once again, really appreciate the advice. I probably need to use the electric shock etc., to find out what the fish density is.
Unfortunately, I'm not the most accomplished fisherman, hard to tell how many fish have survived the initial stocking..

I don't think the YP will respond very well to an electroshock survey since YP remain deep near or on the bottom where electroshocking is not effective. Best sampling IMO for your particular situation is various types of angling, larger traps, maybe a large seine survey, and observation during feeding times.

It is possible that not a lot of the 1000 YP you stocked did not survive. 1000 adult YP in a 1ac pond should not be hard to catch. Although there are good and not so good ways to fish for YP. The number of egg ribbons that you see this spring will be a good indication of how many females that you have present. Number of male YP should be at least the same number of egg ribbons that you see assuming egg ribbons are well fertilized. You will not see all the YP egg ribbons. Not all female YP will lay ribbons. For a reasonable estimate of female YP numbers, add 25% to the number of ribbons that you see. Double that total number for the number of males. This should give you a good guess as to the number of adult YP present within 10-20%. Note that often YP are sorted by size and buying only one size class of YP from a fish farm may have a disproportionate number of one sex.


If you get PBoss magazine reread and implement my two fish sampling methods describes in the articles:
May-Jun 2015 SAMPLING YOUR POND FISH. Part 1. Cody details three simple methods he used to sample and compare the fisheries in 13 ponds.
Jul-Aug 2015 SIMPLE FISH SAMPLING RESULTS. Part 2. Cody presents the results of a simple fish sampling study used in 13 test ponds.

If you perform a few of the basic fish sampling methods and keep records of everything you catch, then over time you will have a real good assessment of what is present in your pond and how the fishery is progressing.

I've got those two issues. I will go back over them.
I've tried several different angling approaches. Had a hot streak last fall. Caught 30 nice ones in two days. Then it went quiet. I mean zero.
There are not that many hitting the feeder when it goes off. Maybe an additional 20 to 40. I try not to be negative, but I just struggle a bit. I just can't imagine there are still 1,300 YP left in there. My trap catches tadpoles, no matter what I do, but I don't think I'm getting it down deep enough. Same with a drop net. Catching zero.
I'll read those back issues, and see what I can come up with.
Thanks

Catching 30 YP then nothing suggests to me that the overall number are not there. Were the 30 YP you caught released or harvested? When YP are abundant in a 1 acre or less pond you can always catch then with worms or minnows fished along the bank in 4-6 ft of water. IF you have 1000 YP per acre you should be able to just about catch YP any time you fish with live bait except mid-summer.
Have you tried trapping some FHM and using them for bait?

We have to remember this pond has only one year class of YP in it and has not had spawn. Once you see the abundance of egg ribbons this will provide a fairly good relative estimate of fish density. Traps for YP do not need to be set deep. If YP are present with IMO an adequate YP density you should be able to catch them in larger traps set 2.5 to 4 ft deep especially during spawn season. YP move close to the shoreline seeking groceries. YP do not eat tadpoles although reproducing SMB will eliminate tadpoles when minnows are scare or uncommon. An abundant population of FHM also suggests low numbers of adult YP. IMO 300-500 YP per acre will fairly quickly reduce the numbers of FHminnows especially those 1" to 1.5" individuals during fall, winter and spring until the FHM spawn. Surviving SMB should also be preying heavily of the larger FHM. What do you estimate the numbers of SMB to be?. You catching SMB while fishing for YP? How big are your SMB you catch?