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Had not messed around with things since I got back and the nitrites were sky high. Let it go until this afternoon and checked. Zero nitrites, so it was still working. Added more ammonia, so I'll see in a day or two if the bugs can live without a food source for an extended period of time.

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Hey Bill, I just remembered I have a pile of new 1" bio-balls.

They are kinda like this, but blue in color.


I keep tripping over the ones I know where they are at. Well, searching for something else and you pick up and move a box to get to the box you're looking for...

Want some?

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Cool! Are those ones that you use statically or do they need to get bounced around by air like the media?


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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Cool! Are those ones that you use statically or do they need to get bounced around by air like the media?


They are generally used in a static situation for a biofilter, but they do float.


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They could be put to use for degassing or a C02 stripper.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Thanks for the offer Phil but, I wouldn't know what to do with them at this point.

On another note...I got a China shipment today so will start playing with the media again. Also setup a 20 today with maple leaf stew brewing in anticipation of ordering up some scuds next week.

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/08/16 08:23 PM. Reason: Typo

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
They could be put to use for degassing or a C02 stripper.


That was my original intent when I got them years ago, but need to go on the clean water side after the filtration, which you will need to employ pressure blowers and some controls.

Too much expense for a DIY rig tho, and that's where we want to keep this. Right?

If you do the DIY MBBR correctly, should be able to achieve a good +60% on gas stripping. That should allow enough DO for the rig, but too many fish or feed...

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Thanks for the offer Phil but, I wouldn't know what to do with them at this point.

On another note...I got a China shipment today so will start playing with the media again. Also setup a 20 today with maple leaf stew brewing in anticipation of ordering up some scuds next week.


Keep us informed.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
They could be put to use for degassing or a C02 stripper.


That was my original intent when I got them years ago, but need to go on the clean water side after the filtration, which you will need to employ pressure blowers and some controls.

Too much expense for a DIY rig tho, and that's where we want to keep this. Right?

If you do the DIY MBBR correctly, should be able to achieve a good +60% on gas stripping. That should allow enough DO for the rig, but too many fish or feed...


Yeah that's the thing. For a DIY rig if you're not pushing the envelope like the commercial systems that need to pay off their capital expense, it's not necessary to get too anal. I did once have 69 lbs. of yellow perch in a 150 gallon tank with no issues. But I was doing a 10 percent water change per day! And couldn't wait to get them into the pond!

I have a 250 gallon system (150 gallon tank) right now with 154 4 to 8 inch bluegills. Most are in the 6 inch range and only a handful are 8 inches. Not bad for not even one year old.

The thing is they were hand selected from the get go and the water is 78 F. Feed up to 5 X per day if I let them.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Thanks for the offer Phil but, I wouldn't know what to do with them at this point.

On another note...I got a China shipment today so will start playing with the media again. Also setup a 20 today with maple leaf stew brewing in anticipation of ordering up some scuds next week.


Keep us informed.


Minor set back..... After two days, the 2 inch layer of maple leaves in the future scud tank leached tannins that turned the entire 20 tank the color of strong tea. Plan B will be to drain the tank and remove the leaves to a bucket of water. I will do water changes on the bucket until the water is clear and then put them back in the tank.


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What are the leaves for?

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Scud chow and habitat.

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/09/16 09:08 PM. Reason: Clarification

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That's interesting!

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Bill D,
I'm feeling foolish for missing out on warning you about that. It didn't cross my mind that this might happen to you too. I too purchased some scud and put most in my pond, but kept a few in an inside aquarium. The seller of the scud recommended using leaves that were not easily obtained here in W MI (I think mulberry maybe he said?) I chose a mix of leaves that I had laying on the ground in the woods. Mostly maple, some oak, but all dead and very dry.

I probably only kept 20 or so scud and they buzzed around very happily in my aquarium with light aeration. But over time I too had tannin stain to the point of not being able to see them anymore. However at that point even though I tried to carefully strain water and remove leaves, i could not reliably catch any live scud to transfer. I think some died, and some held on to the leaves so I couldn't easily separate and save them. My experiment ended (at least the part in the aquarium inside did) I hope the scuds are fairing well in the pond. But they are such tiny buggers I have not confirmed a visual on them yet.

I missed your first posts so missed warning you about that. I do wonder if someone used live maple leaves (green) if that would have worked. Or maybe even some sections of aquatic weeds/plants would serve well as hiding, holding places and nutrition for the scuds? I imagine live oak leaves may not be appropriate here.

They are tiny critters so I hope you can successfully move them and continue your experiment.

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So, exactly what is a Scud?

I mean, eliminating the missile type that don't work.

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No one suggested leaves to me, so I didn't use them. Just acquarium gravel, a couple road gravel sized rocks, a coffee cup in the 10 gal tank, and FA. I feed them a little flake fish food now and then. The water in the 10 gal tank is getting pretty murky. I scooped a gal or so of water out a few days ago and replaced it with room temp tap water. The scuds in the 10 gal tank are more sluggish than those in the 3 gal, but most appear to be alive, just resting, and a few go shooting around here and there. Most in the 3 gal tank are quite active. The water in there is less murky.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
So, exactly what is a Scud?

I mean, eliminating the missile type that don't work.


Here's a current thread about scuds

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436861&page=1


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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Bill D,
I'm feeling foolish for missing out on warning you about that. It didn't cross my mind that this might happen to you too. I too purchased some scud and put most in my pond, but kept a few in an inside aquarium. The seller of the scud recommended using leaves that were not easily obtained here in W MI (I think mulberry maybe he said?) I chose a mix of leaves that I had laying on the ground in the woods. Mostly maple, some oak, but all dead and very dry.

I probably only kept 20 or so scud and they buzzed around very happily in my aquarium with light aeration. But over time I too had tannin stain to the point of not being able to see them anymore. However at that point even though I tried to carefully strain water and remove leaves, i could not reliably catch any live scud to transfer. I think some died, and some held on to the leaves so I couldn't easily separate and save them. My experiment ended (at least the part in the aquarium inside did) I hope the scuds are fairing well in the pond. But they are such tiny buggers I have not confirmed a visual on them yet.

I missed your first posts so missed warning you about that. I do wonder if someone used live maple leaves (green) if that would have worked. Or maybe even some sections of aquatic weeds/plants would serve well as hiding, holding places and nutrition for the scuds? I imagine live oak leaves may not be appropriate here.

They are tiny critters so I hope you can successfully move them and continue your experiment.


CC,

No worries. I haven't ordered the scuds yet. As I've never done this before, I'm taking it slow. I just setup the tank with the leaves and light aeration to observe for a week or so. I am going to drain everything and put the current leaves in a bucket with frequent water changes until they stop leaching then try them in the tank again. The website I looked at said maple or mulberry were best but did not mention issues with the leaching. I want to get this right if I can before ordering the scuds. Scuds need oxygen so I want to make sure I don't end up with an anaerobic layer of gunk in the bottom of the tank that the scuds can't utilize.


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Just an update on my scuds. Both the tank in the cold-frame and in the basement are doing fine. Those in the basement all seem to be mating (coupled). I have a bubble filter and air stone in the basement tank and an artificial light on a timer. The scuds seem to be getting adjusted to the light, but many hang out under cover. I added 3 dry mulberry leaves to the basement tank a couple days ago which have now sunk. The water in both tanks is crystal clear. The scuds are eating shrimp pellets and flake food. So far no evidence of eating the leaves.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: JKB
So, exactly what is a Scud?

I mean, eliminating the missile type that don't work.


Here's a current thread about scuds

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436861&page=1


JKB,
My scuds are not the hyalella species that are mentioned in the thread post above. They probably are similar, at least similar size and shape but not exactly the same.

Mine are Gammarus sp. Never found out the species name. If I did it again I would probably avoid leaves, use green maple leaves that won't leach color, or use some other pond weed that had places to attach to and hide plus throw in some FA.

I also started with tap water but added some 'green water' from the pond to get the micro organisms in there.

Picture of mine here:
Gammarus sp.

They are very cheap to buy again and I probably should just buy some and toss them in the pond again. I might wait till my crayfish numbers are less and I have some vegetation growing again for them to hide in. Right now I do have a thick layer of dead leaves in the shallows as the wind blew the fall leaves into the shallows. I'm sure the scuds and the ghost shrimp love hiding out under those leaves.

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Mine are Gammarus too.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: JKB
So, exactly what is a Scud?

I mean, eliminating the missile type that don't work.


Here's a current thread about scuds

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436861&page=1


Thanks!!

I thought that thread was something about plants, so never looked at it.

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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Originally Posted By: JKB
So, exactly what is a Scud?

I mean, eliminating the missile type that don't work.


Here's a current thread about scuds

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=436861&page=1


JKB,
My scuds are not the hyalella species that are mentioned in the thread post above. They probably are similar, at least similar size and shape but not exactly the same.

Mine are Gammarus sp. Never found out the species name. If I did it again I would probably avoid leaves, use green maple leaves that won't leach color, or use some other pond weed that had places to attach to and hide plus throw in some FA.

I also started with tap water but added some 'green water' from the pond to get the micro organisms in there.

Picture of mine here:
Gammarus sp.

They are very cheap to buy again and I probably should just buy some and toss them in the pond again. I might wait till my crayfish numbers are less and I have some vegetation growing again for them to hide in. Right now I do have a thick layer of dead leaves in the shallows as the wind blew the fall leaves into the shallows. I'm sure the scuds and the ghost shrimp love hiding out under those leaves.



Thanks-CC!!

Where do you get them?

I wonder if you went to Muskegon Lake and scooped some of these up Bloody Red Shrimp , if you could get in trouble.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Had not messed around with things since I got back and the nitrites were sky high. Let it go until this afternoon and checked. Zero nitrites, so it was still working. Added more ammonia, so I'll see in a day or two if the bugs can live without a food source for an extended period of time.


Checked last night, well, very early this morning. Ammonia and Nitrite were both back down to Zero, and Nitrate was about 5ppm.

Seems like it should be good to go.

Added more ammonia last night to continue and a second check.

Now, to get busy and set everything up proper with the new tanks.

I'm talking to myself laugh wink

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Checked last night, well, very early this morning. Ammonia and Nitrite were both back down to Zero, and Nitrate was about 5ppm.

Seems like it should be good to go.

Added more ammonia last night to continue and a second check.

Now, to get busy and set everything up proper with the new tanks.

I'm talking to myself laugh wink


You can't feed those bugs store bought bottled ammonia forever man! smile What ya gonna put in those tanks!

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/10/16 09:08 PM.

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