I'm in complete agreement with everything you say in the above post! Excellent points! We're definitely on the same page and I was just making an observation to Tony.
The high backline on this fish is just not something I've ever seen on the hundreds of bluegills I've caught and mounted in my state from public waters. Typically even the bluegills here that are well over a pound are more fusiform than coppernose or the Condello strain.
Case in point: I had anglers over to help seine the trophy pond last spring. The original strain were Condello strain. TheIr eyes were popping out of their heads, as they had never seen body conformations like mine in the wild, even with 11 inch bluegills.
Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 02/04/1601:50 PM.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
Yeah I was a little worried about my CNBG making it in Batesville Ark. It gets pretty darn cold in Batesville but I guess not for long enough times to be an issue. So far all of mine have done good....
That fish is a monster. Here we can compare. Here is an 11 inch male BG I caught 2 years ago. Totally different in color than the one above?? so is the one above female?
Last edited by RC51; 02/04/1601:46 PM.
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Yeah I was a little worried about my CNBG making it in Batesville Ark. It gets pretty darn cold in Batesville but I guess not for long enough times to be an issue. So far all of mine have done good....
That fish is a monster. Here we can compare. Here is an 11 inch male BG I caught 2 years ago. Totally different in color than the one above?? so is the one above female?
Both males.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
No issues here, either. And I'm in agreement with ewest regarding this fish reaping the benefits of a naturally occurring genetic enhancement of some fashion. In my opinion, that's the exact scenario that accounts for many record fish taken from public waters. More of a singular anomaly than a divergent, improved strain that benefits the population as a whole. I suppose we could wait and see if any other remarkable specimens are produced by this BOW.
I'm with Cecil on RC's photo. Both fish are male.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1) And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1) Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT? PB answer: It depends.
So what are we to make of this fish? If I understand what Ewest is implying, he believes there is a copper nose influence to this specimen. Yet, it was pulled through the ice. Is this evidence of improved cold tolerance when the two strains combine, or should we question the validity of "only CNBG have wider, fewer bars?"
I see only a northern BG there, but I'm curious as to what others think.
Tony,
Color wise I don't see anything unusual either for one of our northern bluegill. And I checked, and the lake it was supposed to come from, Big Bower, a natural lake in Steuben County, has never been planted with fish according to a fish maps/lake reports book I have.
I could see a bluegill planted in a pond up here having some coppernose genes as most of the fish up here that come from fish suppliers originate in Arkansas. George told me it was entirely possible hatcheries inadvertantly mix the two subspecies.
And I too have been told by a biologist at Malone and Sons in Arkansas that a pure coppernose won't survive the winters up here.
Ye Olde Fish Truck - AR Pond Stockers - sells CNBG up here every year. Poor NE pond owners are none the wiser regarding it's intolerance for cold environments - unless you're plugged in like we are how would you be aware? Is it possible a few fish make it through Winters and could over multiple generations create a cold water tolerant CNBG strain? I have never caught a CNBG except at Al's and Richmond Mill - certainly none in NE - but is it possible?
It would be fun to see a pond meister in Kansas stock pure strain CNBG, SMB, and GSH and see what happens. Maybe a cold tolerant CNBG strain would emerge. One might have to restock CNBG annually until evidence of winter survival actually occurs.
RES are a southern fish that aren't supposed to very cold water tolerant, yet we have them here in Nebraka. The issue with RES and cold water seems to be fungal infections when temps get below 55 degrees.
Insanity has been described as trying the same thing over and over and expecting a different result, I am afraid that is what you would get with CNBG in Nebraska. The natural range of RES is just a little south of you Shorty while the native range of CNBG is peninsula Fla - a big difference . One thing about minimum lethal temps is they are cellular and can kill the whole lot when reached. Another important thing to consider is that even if lethal temps are not reached the fish still perform very poorly if they live. An interesting attempt might be to cross some Ark CNBG with Neb Condello BG and stock the offspring in Neb.
Agreed Eric, that experiment would be interesting. I've got the CSBG - just need some willing CNBG!
TJ, that's no problem at all. I can bring you all the 10" CNBG you want. But as you know, I'm a "go by the rules" guy, so here's the Northern BG/CNBG exchange scenario.
First, we'll need to meet at the Joplin MO Waffle House at 3 AM. We should both be dressed business casual, and not make eye contact with any other patrons or wait staff inside. Second, the fish should be in briefcases so we can just exchange them under the table. I've seen these exchanges happen in many movies, so I know it will work. Finally, we'll need to leave at different times to make sure at least one of us gets out alive. I might leave my truck idling in the parking lot just to speed up my departure, but that's just me. Having said all that, I see no scenario where anything could possibly go wrong.
Yeah I was a little worried about my CNBG making it in Batesville Ark. It gets pretty darn cold in Batesville but I guess not for long enough times to be an issue. So far all of mine have done good....
That fish is a monster. Here we can compare. Here is an 11 inch male BG I caught 2 years ago. Totally different in color than the one above?? so is the one above female?
RC51, an interesting little experiment is to catch a couple same size BG and put one in a black 5 gallon bucket of pond water and the other in a white or yellow bucket. Then after five or ten minutes switch the fish and watch the color change.
I have not done this side by side like described, but have used 5 gallon buckets a lot to haul 4-6" BG from my main pond to my old pond. I would just pick up whatever bucket was handy. After a while I noticed significant different behavior and color changes depending on if I was using a lighter or darker colored bucket (lighter or darker on the interior because of the amount of sunlight penetrating the plastic.
Any more, I try to use a black bucket when I am catching fish and holding for a short while to transfer. They are much calmer in the black bucket. Color gets much darker also (which seems counter intuitive, I would have guessed they would have turned light like in a turbid pond).
Well in Joplin you would only be about 25 miles from my house, so just as well stop by for coffee and waffles here and criminalize me also in the process instead of being in the "city", subject to prying eyes wondering what is in in those briefcases.
Cops will confiscate cash in briefcases these days, so I would not put them above taking fish under the Partiot act.
Yeah I was a little worried about my CNBG making it in Batesville Ark. It gets pretty darn cold in Batesville but I guess not for long enough times to be an issue. So far all of mine have done good....
That fish is a monster. Here we can compare. Here is an 11 inch male BG I caught 2 years ago. Totally different in color than the one above?? so is the one above female?
RC51, an interesting little experiment is to catch a couple same size BG and put one in a black 5 gallon bucket of pond water and the other in a white or yellow bucket. Then after five or ten minutes switch the fish and watch the color change.
I have not done this side by side like described, but have used 5 gallon buckets a lot to haul 4-6" BG from my main pond to my old pond. I would just pick up whatever bucket was handy. After a while I noticed significant different behavior and color changes depending on if I was using a lighter or darker colored bucket (lighter or darker on the interior because of the amount of sunlight penetrating the plastic.
Any more, I try to use a black bucket when I am catching fish and holding for a short while to transfer. They are much calmer in the black bucket. Color gets much darker also (which seems counter intuitive, I would have guessed they would have turned light like in a turbid pond).
Yes that is one thing I did not take into account with these 2 fish. Mine was caught in a nice clear pond the other was under dark snow ice water which would explain it's lighter color. Some lakes around here are so muddy the LMB look like stripers... LOL... That CNBG I caught was the biggest one to date on my pond. I almost kept it and was gonna mount it but let it go. So far I have not caught it again and that was 2 years ago.
RC
The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Snrub, we might just come by and eat waffles. I have some very outstanding Indiana maple syrup I could bring. Besides, I love seeing other people's ponds.
We would probably be handcuffed to the briefcases, so TJ and I would have to figure out how to deal with that issue. Like I said, I see no scenario where this plan could go wrong.
You are welcome any time we are home. I don't have any spare handcuffs because my wife is not into that kind of stuff. And If she was the cuffs would sure be on me and not her so better I just stay cuffless. But that is an entirely different subject.
In order to insure no funny business occurs FireIsHot and TJ will oversee the mission and insure that protocol is followed.
Highflyer will prepare the plane , and pick up TJ and FireIsHot and the crew will empty 2 of his topia ponds and prepare them for BG occupancy (feeders , aeration . BG beds readied etc.).
The crew will put in one pond (called Flirttopia) 13 female CNBG (Georges' offspring) and in the other pond (called Machotopia) put 12 male CNBG (Georges' offspring).
Highflyer will fly the crew up and pick up 25 adult CSBG (12 males and 13 females)and return to his place.
The crew will carefully place 12 CSBG males (use only the ones that look like Texas sized dinner plates)in Flirttopia and then place 13 female CSBG (use only ones that look like obese dinner plates) in Machotopia. Don't screw this part up and put the males with the males and the females with the females -- we do want babies - after all if this works we will have beautifully colored , gigantic , cold tolerant topia strain BG to sell for millions of $$ !!!!!!
Feeding , observation of the orgy and care should be filmed for proof and amusement with no cameos by the crew.
The offspring should be cared for meticulously and when 3 inches should be divided into 2 groups (half to be flown to Neb for placement in one of TJs ponds and the other half divided in 2 parts one half (1/4th) to be placed in a pond at FireIsHot's and the other half (1/4th) left separately and segregated in Flirttopia and Machotopia so we can see how each F1 cross (mCSBG X fCNBG and mCNBG X fCSBG)develop.
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