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BrianL #435827 01/26/16 02:18 PM
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The water started out VERY muddy, but after putting in 500#s of alfalfa hay, and some coastal because of cover on the dam, the water really started to clean up. It has gone from 1"-2" of clarity to over a foot and closer to 18", lost the milky brown coloring. Hope by spring and stocking time it will be even clearer.

Grass starting good on dam. Will have to reseed in the spring with warm weather grass.





AS far as stocking fish... Thing about this, any suggestions?

35# FHM
2500 small CNB
150 medium CNB
100 Adult CNB
500 RES
150 LMB
30 HSB

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Last edited by BrianL; 11/08/17 03:31 PM.

1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #435829 01/26/16 02:37 PM
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Whats the fishery goals for the pond?


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
BrianL #435831 01/26/16 02:51 PM
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Wow, just wow!

Congratulations, Brian!

What you have there will bring you many, many years of enjoyment, in so many different ways!

How often have you found yourself just staring in wonder?

That's therapy right there!


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Formerly: 2ac LMB,HSB,BG,HBG,RES
BrianL #435834 01/26/16 02:55 PM
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yes, what are the goals? There are lots of threads and good debates about the proper time to add LMB. My bias is that since you worked so hard to create a beautiful pond, add structure, did everything in a premium fashion, that you also want premium stocking advice. That comes with understanding your main goal for the pond very well.

I think you will be happiest if you exercise GREAT CAUTION and GREAT Patience at this step. Most of the time the slow and steady, steady and slow with stocking is the best. That means FORAGE FIRST and predators last.

Many have advocated at least 2 years in a new pond before predators. The first year or two is dedicated to establishing forage base. In this scenario it is possible that small CNBG could be considered forage but it is better yet to think about forage diversity and give them plenty of time to establish.

When you try to add forage diversity later and you have big hungry mouths (adult BG and bass, HSB) the new forage lines can't survive after stocking.

Texas gives you the option of multiple forage species that we don't have access to up in the north.

If you had a year or more for FHM, GSH, shiners of other types (spottail, spotfin, etc) Dacers, etc etc. you really lay the foundation for your target fish to grow rapidly later.

Don't forget crayfish, (smaller stocker crayfish can be expensive snacks for larger stocked fish)

Don't forget scuds, freshwater shrimp, etc.

If you need help searching for certain types of forage for your area someone who is good with the archives 'm sure can help connect you with prior forum threads that discuss forage options.

I know it is hard to wait, especially with a gorgeous pond like yours, but think how exciting it will be to know that your pond will spend the next 18-24 months creating that ideal 'green water' microscopic life and expanding your micro-organisms and every other step of the forage base!

Last edited by canyoncreek; 01/26/16 02:56 PM.
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You are 100% right about the timeframe for adding preds. I'm not sure one can add LMB at the same time as forage.... Don't think you will ever catch up that way, least I haven't. Add them latter if at all possible

BrianL #435852 01/26/16 04:54 PM
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The goals are varying, but I would say this is a enjoy the view,swim, project, and fish pond. I really enjoy projects around the place, and now the pond is a new source for that. Only thing that slows the projects is $:). I'm not a monster LMB guy. I really enjoy #s of good fish over a few monster fish. If a few grow that big, great, but that isn't a goal of mine. Bigger BG are on my mind, so a dock and feeder are on the short list.


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #435854 01/26/16 05:10 PM
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Brian
That's a good goal to have and half the fun is how to get there. There are many ways to get to where you want, but try to be patient befor adding preds

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Patience has never been one of my stronger characteristics grin . But I'll try........... For a little while... Or as long as possible...

Really with the BG I'm not in a huge rush on the LMB or HSB, but wouldn't the bigger BG be a threat to the LMB fingerlings?


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #435858 01/26/16 05:44 PM
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Brian, I am in deep east Texas and my 2 acre pond is one year old. We only stocked cnbg and res with a few pounds of fhm.I am a big bass fisherman but we chose to wait until this summer to stock lmb and even then they will be just little fingerlings.Don't think you won't have fish to catch and have fun with while you wait. I am already catching cnbg over 8 inches long and weighing 1/2 pound!!! My cnbg have spawned at least 3 times this year and that is what you need to build up a strong supply of forage for your bass later. On ultralite tackle a 1/2 pound bluegill is a blast!! Good luck and be patient.


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Flame #435867 01/26/16 06:48 PM
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Brian
In my pond the only threat to lmb is larger LMB or me. My little bass hang out near the bank. Even a large BG can't eat a few month old bass if the bass are fed well

BrianL #435879 01/26/16 08:16 PM
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There have been great threads here about people who had wall to wall shiners and FHM. Numbers in the 10s of thousands, you would be hard pressed to buy and stock that many. Then one season of active predators (whether that be RES, bass or even perch) and not a FHM to be seen.

With larger bass the go to forage in southern ponds seems to be young CNBG so getting several spawns in is really going to help the pocket book. Tilapia are very popular forage fish for the bass and again getting a head start on natural reproduction is going to save money rather than buying and trucking them in every year.

Some threads discuss gizzard shad, etc you can read those and see if they apply to you or not.

The other Texans will have much more real life southern pond experience. Be sure to read everything in the archives by the late George Glazener as well as he gave great insights into HSB in ponds your size.

Up north I gave the FHM and GSH a year all by themselves. The GSH seem to be well established now after our 3rd summer and we have some nice plumping adults 7" or more and hopefully lots of them will start pumping out the eggs. The 2nd summer I put in a small amount of RES and LES and a few crayfish. The 3rd summer I put in a few perch. They must have put a real hurt on the FHM as I don't see any anymore. I was sure the FHM had 2 summers to spawn but no matter the head start, they seem to be gone.

There is no way to add them back in now unless I had a separate smaller forage pond to raise them in and then stock them as 'snacks' for the fish.

I can't imagine how long it takes to get forage built up in a 2+acre pond but with your warmer water and longer seasons for spawning you should be able to see several spawns for FHM and CNBG. Tilapia as well may have more than one opportunity to add to their numbers.

To me although waiting is hard (I still don't have predators in my pond), it is very satisfying to know that for 2 years the fish were having a free for all in eating and mating without any fear for their lives and the only limit in their numbers was the carrying capacity of the food chain in their surroundings.

I also was amazed at how fast the freshwater shrimp (we used P.K. shrimp the cold water variety) can multiply. In a single season I went from about 100 shrimp to the bottom crawling with them when walking around the pond at night using a flashlight. smile

BrianL #435883 01/26/16 08:41 PM
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+1 to what everyone else has said. If I could have a do over, I would spend a year or two having fun with playing with forage habitat and trying to fill every niche in the food chain. That would include getting vegetation going, crawfish, scuds, robust minnow species, etc. When I could walk across the pond on the backs of forage, time to stock the main event! smile


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BrianL #435893 01/26/16 11:04 PM
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I'm experimenting with the food chain, from the bottom up. Not that I really think I can do much about it in my pond, but it's something to do. I've ordered enough of 6 different organisms for 30 students each, whatever that means. Maybe 30 microscopic critters. The top of this chain is Moina, barely large enough to see without a microscope (I think). Another small order shipped today, 2 kinds of Daphnia and the scud, H. azteca. I received an order of another kind of scud today, lots and lots of scud in this order, many more than I had expected in what was described as a cup of scud. The key thing that's missing is the grass shrimp, P. kadiakensis.

Turtlemtn #435898 01/27/16 06:30 AM
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If you find a source for Pk grass shrimp, please let us know.

Bill D. #435904 01/27/16 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
+1 to what everyone else has said. If I could have a do over, I would spend a year or two having fun with playing with forage habitat and trying to fill every niche in the food chain. That would include getting vegetation going, crawfish, scuds, robust minnow species, etc. When I could walk across the pond on the backs of forage, time to stock the main event! smile


Bill the one downfall I can see with that approach is, what if a pair of undesirable fish accidentally or otherwise get into your BOW. Say for example a pair of GSF or a pair of BH. What if a Kingfisher (or neighbor kid) decides to stock your pond for you. Or a pair of BH babies in that batch of FHM. You know how this drill goes already.

I can just see that a person would need to be EXTREMELY careful of what went in originally, because if something unwanted gets started it might nearly take over the pond in reproduction before a person even knows he has a problem.

If the desired fish are stocked fairly quickly, any accidental unwanted fish would at least be competing with the desired fish to get established. With a pond full of forage and a pair of GSF with no competition.............. oh my!

As long as you do everything "perfectly" two years of forage building might be great. I personally am not good enough at anything to do perfect.

Last edited by snrub; 01/27/16 08:11 AM.

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BrianL #435909 01/27/16 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted By: BrianL
Patience has never been one of my stronger characteristics grin . But I'll try........... For a little while... Or as long as possible...

Really with the BG I'm not in a huge rush on the LMB or HSB, but wouldn't the bigger BG be a threat to the LMB fingerlings?

BrianL, congrats on your pond, it has a nice look to it, a place to enjoy life and family (pets included) smile
In my case, my patience can run short when I set my goals. It's just the way I was made. Sometimes that's good, sometimes bad. I can tell you this, the guys here have given you some really good advice and one should give great thought to the recommendations that have been made to you here. I can speak to only my experience of being a new pond owner. My 3.5 acre pond was completed in early Nov. 2014. With having only 1/3rd of my pond having water, I started my forage stocking in late November using a good number of FHM's (90 lbs) along with some good numbers of cnbg and res and a few TFS. I wanted fish in the
pond smile (lack of patience). I then waited till Late Feb. and added another 30 lbs of fhm's and some more res. By the first of April, there were fhm's everywhere by the thousands and spawning had been going on. And now my cnbg and res were spawning. I am loving it, Now I stock Tilapia, just a few, 24 (5") (5 lbs total) were added, reasoning was, to take the pressure off the cnbg and res at the time the lmb were to be added in June. And let me tell you this, Tilapia make a lot of babies !! And when added to a pond with no predators, they can really produce a lot of forage to the pond, and FA, that slimy green stuff that grows in the pond, you wont see that anymore. So, what am I saying? I am saying here in Texas it is possible to add forage and your predators can be added 6 to 7 months after your initial stocking. So, there are several ways to start up your fishery here in Texas, it just takes a goal and a game plan to get there.

Tracy


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy
TGW1 #435931 01/27/16 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: TGW1
Originally Posted By: BrianL
Patience has never been one of my stronger characteristics grin . But I'll try........... For a little while... Or as long as possible...

Really with the BG I'm not in a huge rush on the LMB or HSB, but wouldn't the bigger BG be a threat to the LMB fingerlings?

BrianL, congrats on your pond, it has a nice look to it, a place to enjoy life and family (pets included) smile
In my case, my patience can run short when I set my goals. It's just the way I was made. Sometimes that's good, sometimes bad. I can tell you this, the guys here have given you some really good advice and one should give great thought to the recommendations that have been made to you here. I can speak to only my experience of being a new pond owner. My 3.5 acre pond was completed in early Nov. 2014. With having only 1/3rd of my pond having water, I started my forage stocking in late November using a good number of FHM's (90 lbs) along with some good numbers of cnbg and res and a few TFS. I wanted fish in the
pond smile (lack of patience). I then waited till Late Feb. and added another 30 lbs of fhm's and some more res. By the first of April, there were fhm's everywhere by the thousands and spawning had been going on. And now my cnbg and res were spawning. I am loving it, Now I stock Tilapia, just a few, 24 (5") (5 lbs total) were added, reasoning was, to take the pressure off the cnbg and res at the time the lmb were to be added in June. And let me tell you this, Tilapia make a lot of babies !! And when added to a pond with no predators, they can really produce a lot of forage to the pond, and FA, that slimy green stuff that grows in the pond, you wont see that anymore. So, what am I saying? I am saying here in Texas it is possible to add forage and your predators can be added 6 to 7 months after your initial stocking. So, there are several ways to start up your fishery here in Texas, it just takes a goal and a game plan to get there.

Tracy


I like the tilapia idea, plus would give me something to catch late fall. How big do tilapia get over 7-9 , months?


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
Trophy Hunter feeder.
BrianL #435934 01/27/16 02:00 PM
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How big do tilapia get over 7 to 9 months..... Rainman your up!! smile

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RC51 #435936 01/27/16 03:19 PM
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Wouldn't the answer be "it depends"? laugh

How big at stocking, what water temp during that time, how much food they had, etc., etc.

Up here, Tilapia stocked at 6"-8" in April will be plenty big enough to eat come October. They will roughly double in size here. I say roughly because they will be 12+" but not 16".

Lets see what Rex has to say!!


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Originally Posted By: RC51
How big do tilapia get over 7 to 9 months..... Rainman your up!! smile

RC


Average growth in good conditions are from an egg to 1.5 pounds in 6-9 months. With lots of algae, many here have had .75 pound stockers top 3-4 pounds in a season....



BrianL #435964 01/27/16 05:08 PM
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Thanks Rex! That puts some fish big enough to be caught by fall. This winter they might still be in there, but I need to get a thermometer to verify water temp. I has been a very mild winter so far!


1.8 acre pond with CNBG, RES, HSB, and LMB
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BrianL #435966 01/27/16 05:13 PM
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--------------------------------
I like the tilapia idea, plus would give me something to catch late fall. How big do tilapia get over 7-9 , months?
---------------------------------------------------------

I'm not sure anyone on this forum has figured out how to catch tilapia yet. It does sound good though to have someone share a reliable method to harvest tilapia for the dinner table in the fall!

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Brian, the Tilapia stocking was interesting to say the least. here is some of the story. While discussing pond stocking with Todd @ Overtons Fishery, I asked about the Tp and this is where he made the recommendation to stock only 5 lbs and explained it as plenty since there were not predators in the pond. As it turned out, I think he hit the nail on the head. These 5 lbs of 6" Tp produced schools of fish, some of them grew to 12+ inches and like Rainman said, 1.5 lbs. Some colored with bright red tails. As the Tp reproduced and grew, they became feeder hogs and no matter how much food was thrown, they would take it all but I would see some cnbg in the mix when the TH feeders went off. When using minnow traps, there would always be a few Tp fingerlings in the traps, and I would see that in fact, reproduction was going on. As I watched the schools of Tp grow in numbers, and looking closely at the size of these fishes, I noticed that I did not see many in the 2 to 4" size. I would see them in the 4+ size and larger. I am sure that the lmb were growing and eating the 3 to 4" Tp. And I learned to cast a nymph fly into the schools when the feeder went off and was always guaranteed a fish when I did it. The other thing I learned was the Tp may be the best eating fish I have ever eaten and I have eaten a lot of fish in my life. One more thing before I end this, is next year, if the same thing goes on @ the feeders, I am going to throw a cast net and put more of the great eating fish in the freezer for eating.

Tracy


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Tracy
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Tracy mentioned that they did well with no preds, I out 10# of them in and they grew like crazy to 12" but I never saw the first baby TP cause I had preds before I stocjed them. Either the LMB ate the offspring or I had mostly males. When the water finally got to cool for them I netted only one floundering TP out of the 10# stocked....... By the way they will hit earthworms. Next spring I will try to put more # s in and see if that helps. I had 0 FA after puting tilapias in. Mine never came to the feeder and neither do the blue cats or channel

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So what do you do with all the 12 inchers that die off? Do you just let them rot or what? Let the turtles have them.... Lets say you got 150 10 inch TP Bass cant eat them so do you go around and net them up as they die off or no?


RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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