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Originally Posted By: snrub
Before I got half way through your post I was thinking to myself "he ought to try soybeans" and about then I read where you do.

We have thousands of acres of deer plots, but we wish the deer would stick with native forage. We actually try to harvest the deer plots for profit. We have what sometimes from a distance looks like a cattle herd grazing on soybeans.

You might also try just a small amount of corn seed mixed in your plot seed mix. Not a lot, just a little. It will give fall grazing. The deer really like the corn as it hardens up just beyond roasting ear stage all the way to harvest stage. They eat the tops off the ears and will eat some shucks when the corn is younger and the shucks are still green. The corn stalks standing up will also give some cover. You might find a farmer that has old seed to get rid of. Corn seed runs anywhere from 200-300 dollars for a bag of 80,000 kernals. With a 40' planter it is nearly impossible to end up with less than a bag or two wasted at the end of the year trying to make the last field planted "come out just right". Unfortunately lots of times it is more like 5 or 6 bags. We will save that seed and use it to finish up the next year, but we never save it over a single year so we nearly always have some bags of 2 year old seed siting around. Then we have to bury it to properly dispose because of the seed treatment involved (can't be used for feed). If you find a farmer with some seed like that, he likely will be glad to give it to you. The germination might be anywhere from perfect to as low as 25%, but enough will grow for your purposes. I would try to shoot for a stalk every 3-5'. Not so thick it shades out your other planting. Just an idea. I've never done it specifically to feed the deer, but they sure like the edges of our fields or any opening within such as a wash where they can walk in a ways.

snrub, Thousands of acres of corn and soybeans is why Kansas is known for have some of the best Whitetail deer in the USA. Big racks are ALL about what they eat. When I was a young man I the 70's and 80's. I lived and hunted in West Texas where deer and Turkey were like rabbits. They were everywhere. I burned out on deer shooting and did not deer hunt for 20 yr's until my son introduced me to Bowhunting. I sat in a bowstand yesterday afternoon and will again today. My funny story with corn is I planted a couple of acres of corn and waited for it to ripen and ready for picken, looking forward to a few ears for eating. I then traveled out of town for 9 or 10 days and when I returned the deer had eaten every kernel. they knew exactly when it was time to pick. So, in growing small food plots of different sizes I have learned corn takes up a lot of space for little deer forage and so now I do the Eagle brand soybeans and leave the corn farming to the ones that have thousands of acres smile
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If my back can hold out (probably not, but I'll deal)
1. Polymer my seeping pond with TJ's help and some neighbors.
2. Get a cabin-style screen porch built for mosquito-free dining in nice weather. Should have been started a year ago, but last winter ate into my choice contractor's available time. I am hoping to help him to learn a little more about construction in apprentice style.
3. Clear about 4 acres of grape-vine and sumac-infested land.

I really wish I had a tractor when we moved here, but a push mower cannot keep up with it all and it got away from me. That is all I had when we move here with mo money and too much wishful thinking. It is now a huge undertaking that a smaller tractor and a zero-turn cannot handle. It was great for wildlife and beautiful when it was coming in, but now it is a knotted mess. Sumac, when it dies is like a bunch of enormous deer antlers. It doesn't stack well, refuses to pull though other brush, and ties like sailor knots with grapevine. It is like working on fence hedgerows. A nightmare.

I don't want to bulldoze it, but to weed it lake a garden in a sense. I want to leave desirable saplings behind like maple and oak so I can get shade, yet occasionally mow between them to promote wildlife without chopping it all up.

At least it burns well! So I stack up the dead stuff into especially knotted areas and let it rip. When sumac burns, it pops and banks like firecrackers, and burns fast and hot. Kind of fun, but a lot of work. Especially since my little guy is unwilling to help. Stupid video games...

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Brush piles make excellent wildlife habitat. I stopped burning them years ago.

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Going to try and produce crappie this year in one of my small 1/10th acre hatchery ponds. And then feed train them and plant one of the sexes in my trophy male bluegill and female yellow perch pond.

Just need to decide if I want to produce just black crappie or hybridize blacks and whites.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Go for it Cecil, hope it works black crappie are beautiful fish

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Cecil, can u please explain the difference in the hybred crappie over the Blk or White? Advantages of one over the other? My plans are for a trophy LMB pond and to do so they lmb have to have plenty to eat. I would think the lmb would keep the crappie in control, even though they compete for the minnows? I have read over and over where you do not want to add WC or BC but when reading where someone like Pat has lmb that seem to take over his BC pond? Anybody? Why would the lmb not feast on the crappie?

Tracy


Last edited by TGW1; 01/01/16 10:44 AM. Reason: add on

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TGW1, I think anything that takes food away from the LMB is detrimental to your goals. How much forage fish that the crappie eat could grow up to be LMB food? An 8 oz crappie will eat around 5 pounds of minnows to get to that size, would you rather have those minnows going to LMB or Crappie?


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Originally Posted By: RAH
Brush piles make excellent wildlife habitat. I stopped burning them years ago.


I do leave some within reason, though the area I am working on would result in a brush pile as big as the house. The whole area pretty much is a brush pile. Mostly I need to knock it back some so it is a mixed habitat again.

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Some of my piles are that big too, although more smaller piles are supposed to be better. Sounds like you have quite a job ahead of you. Hope you are successful getting things like you want them.

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Plant a patch of sunflowers within viewing distance so we can (hopefully) see all sorts of winged visitors. But, to be successful, I've got to get to groundbreaking and liming the soil NOW.

Last edited by djstauder; 01/04/16 09:54 AM.

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djst, Deer love sunflower sprouts, one of their favorite things to eat. you may want to put up an efence to keep them out for a while.

Tracy


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Just wanted to let you know that at Away With Geese we offer a solar powered and maintenance free light that flashes at night and is guaranteed to deter geese. It is great for ponds and we have tons of testimonials from people with ponds and lakefront properties.


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Hollywood, you may get some usage there, but the woodie like it woody best. Another lease we had, had a 1 acre marsh with small pond in it. You could watch hundreds of wood ducks dump in there as it got dark. Totally encompassed in timber. Don't hesitate to put a mallard hoop on the other side of the pond. Good Luck!

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Originally Posted By: TGW1
djst, Deer love sunflower sprouts, one of their favorite things to eat. you may want to put up an efence to keep them out for a while.

Tracy


I planted 3 acres of sunflower by broadcasting seed. Power went out one night, so while I was at the meter/distribution box replacing a bad breaker, the wife said the deer were liking my sunflower patch. The next morning, it looked like someone had mowed the entire 3 acres of sunflower to a one foot height. Not a single sunflower plant escaped being topped!



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Originally Posted By: TGW1
Cecil, can u please explain the difference in the hybred crappie over the Blk or White? Advantages of one over the other? My plans are for a trophy LMB pond and to do so they lmb have to have plenty to eat. I would think the lmb would keep the crappie in control, even though they compete for the minnows? I have read over and over where you do not want to add WC or BC but when reading where someone like Pat has lmb that seem to take over his BC pond? Anybody? Why would the lmb not feast on the crappie?

Tracy



Tracy, here is the scoop on Hybrid Crappie .

The problem I see is that the Crappie will reduce the total available forage in the water that you want going toward YOUR goal of growing "big bass".

Tracy, Assume caloric intake and growth would be identical, regardless of forage sizes eaten...if a Crappie or LMB has to eat 10 pounds of minnows to grow to 1 pound, and gets eaten by a "big bass". That Bass would have to eat 10 Crappie to gain one pound, or, in essence, the bass ate 50 pounds of minnows to gain 1 pound. In theory, adding Crappie would cause your LMB to consume 5 times the food to gain that one pound.

In reality, the theory is wrong, but illustrates why I think Crappie would reduce LMB growth. Both Crappie and LMB need forage in the optimum size to reach the 10 pound forage to 1 pound growth potential. Finding a forage fish that grows to an optimal size for your LMB, and does NOT compete with the LMB is best. Threadfin and Gizzard shad fill that space, but those fish pose other risks also.

LMB foraging on pellet fed BG or CNBG along with Tilapia and trout will get a far better food to flesh conversion....maybe as good as a 3:1 conversion rate.

Tilapia convert quality pellet feed at a 1.2:1 rate, BG/CNBG at a 4:1 rate and trout at a 3:1 rate, while feed trained bass at a little over a 4:1 rate.

The benefit with Tilapia, trout and BG/CNBG, all readily take pellets, and are easily managed posing little risk along with growing quickly, and in large quantities to an optimal size for LMB to forage on efficiently...the only real downside is the wallet thickness.....

Last edited by Rainman; 01/21/16 11:41 AM.


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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Originally Posted By: TGW1
djst, Deer love sunflower sprouts, one of their favorite things to eat. you may want to put up an efence to keep them out for a while.

Tracy


I planted 3 acres of sunflower by broadcasting seed. Power went out one night, so while I was at the meter/distribution box replacing a bad breaker, the wife said the deer were liking my sunflower patch. The next morning, it looked like someone had mowed the entire 3 acres of sunflower to a one foot height. Not a single sunflower plant escaped being topped!


If I could make blackberry bushes and honeysuckle taste like sunflowers, I would have it made with brush control. Deer ate our sunflowers too.

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Rainman-
I had been thinking seriously about stocking some tilapia in my Iowa pond this next summer (when the water was warm enough, and knowing the cold would kill them this fall), to help control my massive FA problems, and also provide some forage. However, a swapped an email with the Iowa DNR, and tilapia are a no go for private pond owners in Iowa. Only if you raise them in a closed tank system I guess. So I was bummed about that. Just sharing, since I think you had suggested last summer I contact the DNR to see if it would be possible.
best regards,
Luke


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Luke, Did the IA DNR folks have a reason why tilapia were a no go? were they afraid they would multiply, or get out of control? Carry disease? cause too many people to take a renewed interest in their ponds? prevent the sale of other algaecides and thus produce loss of commercial profit?

I'm just curious what the logic is behind it since I can't see the downside to tilapia.

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Canyoncreek-
Here is the exact email contents I received:

"
Webmaster [DNR] <Webmaster@dnr.iowa.gov>
2:30 PM (21 hours ago)

to me
Dear Luke,



Thank you for using the Iowa DNR website. Iowa code prohibits any person to bring into the state of Iowa for the purpose of propagating or introducing, or to place or introduce into any of the inland or boundary waters of the state, any fish that are not native to such water, unless an application is first made in writing to the commission for a permit therefor and such permit granted. The DNR has issued permits to import Tilapia for aquaculture purposes and only in closed system which they could not escape from. Never has the DNR issued a permit to introduce Tilapia into the wild. Your pond would not be considered a closed system. If you have additional questions, you can contact your Fisheries biologist (Paul Sleeper) at 319-350-8399.


Please let me know if you have further questions or concerns."

I guess they must worry about tilapia becoming 'invasive', which is hokum (as I have learned from you all here) due to numerous issues, not withstanding the sub zero temps, et al. I was trying to avoid some chemical use, control the FA and provide some forage, all in one fell swoop. (That may have been a little pipe dreaming, but hey). Plus, my pond's outflow runs to a large field (not a creek/stream/body of water) and I've often lamented seeing fish and YOY fry washed into the grass. It's on my list to construct a 'catch basin' of some sort, to capture them and return them to the pond, vs just feeding the crows and eagles.

Last edited by DrLuke; 01/21/16 12:43 PM. Reason: spelling correction

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That photo is from last summer, after a seven inch rain! Just a long, grassy field between two corn/bean fields...


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Dr Luke, Iowa, Like Missouri, Illinois, Nebraska, and many other states have biologists that look at what is on paper only when it comes to what a fish consumes. they either refuse to accept, or never care enough to find out what many empirical examples prove. I recently had to get a "special permit" to stock Hybrid Crappie in Iowa. The first request was denied, since the "Approved Aquatic Species List" in Iowa had White Crappie and Black Crappie listed as approved, but did NOT include, "or their hybrids" as it did for Bluegill, white bass, or striped bass.

After the applicant called and argued that both white and black crappie exist together in the same waters in Iowa, there MUST be natural Hybridization occurring. He further argued he wanted Hybrid Crappie because studies show recruitment is poor and that is why the state had not KNOWINGLY discovered Hybrid Crappie as an indigenous species. After arguing his points, the application was granted.

Further, the state liked the idea of a Crappie that had less, or no fear of overpopulating smaller waters, they asked the person stocking the HBCP to keep records on reproduction so they could encourage HBCP stocking to Iowan's in the future.



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Rainman, I've never assigned an excess of brilliance to the Iowa DNR. I generally steer clear of state and federal agencies if at all possible, just to avoid drawing the attention of the slobbering beast...


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Originally Posted By: DrLuke
Rainman, I've never assigned an excess of brilliance to the Iowa DNR. I generally steer clear of state and federal agencies if at all possible, just to avoid drawing the attention of the slobbering beast...


Trust me when I say....I sure wish I hadn't caught some attention!!!! laugh laugh laugh



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Dang... I guess I shouldn't be surprised the deer will eat the sunflower sprouts as they're favorite foods seem to be the things I'm trying to "farm." I'll setup a fence if get the seeds in the ground. This was the weekend when I planned to break ground and lime but it's too cold and windy for an old guy to ride the tractor! hehe


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I had a single woodchuck clear 1/2 acre on me 2 years ago. This year I have a solar electric fence charger, posts and wire ready to put up once the seeds are in the ground. I figure a wire at 4", 10", 24" and 48" will keep everything out that can't or won't jump over the fence. Maybe if the deer bump their nose on it they won't jump over it.


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