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#434332 - 01/12/16 09:49 PM Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond
Bfree Offline


Registered: 01/07/16
Posts: 18
Loc: Louisiana USA
So I am in the process of building a pond, and I have several old stumps left over from when I had the land cleared. Mostly oaks. I've put several down in the pond already.

My questions:
1. Is it ok to put a few green stumps in the new pond from freshly pushed over trees, mainly oaks?

2. Would it be ok to put an entire green tree down in the pond. The tree I want to put down in it is about 3 ft in diameter and probable 40ft long, thats whats left of it. I would like to put it in long ways with the stump part in the deep end and have the rest of the trunk part of it sticking out of the water and upon the bank. Making a log for turtles to climb on and a shade for fish to get under.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.


Edited by Bfree (01/12/16 09:50 PM)

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#434335 - 01/12/16 11:26 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1925
Loc: East Texas, USA
Originally Posted By: Bfree
So I am in the process of building a pond, and I have several old stumps left over from when I had the land cleared. Mostly oaks. I've put several down in the pond already.

My questions:
1. Is it ok to put a few green stumps in the new pond from freshly pushed over trees, mainly oaks?

2. Would it be ok to put an entire green tree down in the pond. The tree I want to put down in it is about 3 ft in diameter and probable 40ft long, thats whats left of it. I would like to put it in long ways with the stump part in the deep end and have the rest of the trunk part of it sticking out of the water and upon the bank. Making a log for turtles to climb on and a shade for fish to get under.

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.


Hey, Bfree. Welcome to Pond Boss!

I'm not expert by any means, but until they come along I'll put in my 2 cents.

First of all, I think it's okay to put in a green tree. My pond has a bunch of pine trees that were taken down then carefully placed to create cover. Pines aren't the best, they are very acidic and, being soft wood, deteriorate faster than hardwoods such as oak. So in my opinion, you're fine with green hardwoods.

Second, it matters where you place the trees. In the middle of deep water they may be rarely used by the fish -- especially if they are below the summer thermocline. In very shallow water they may be weeded in during the summer and attract few big fish even when they aren't.

In my pond, fish whisperer Bob Lusk recommended that the root side of the tree be placed so that it just broke the surface against the shoreline when the pond filled. The tree top was put on the bottom in 10 or so feet of water and anchored with dirt so it wouldn't float away. Floaters aren't used much by the fish and they can clog up spillways.

Small fish need dense cover to survive. So if you wish to help them out, you might put the treetop near the shore so they can use it. In my case, Bob was thinking bass fishing. The tree trunk is great for attracting big fish, and also is much easier to pull a lure thru without getting hung up!

Hope this helps. Best of luck!
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#434339 - 01/12/16 11:41 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: anthropic]
esshup Offline
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Watch it with Oaks. They have tannic acid in them, and depending on the amount that leaches out, it could be harmful to the fish.

Ask DD1 how that worked out for him. He had the same idea.
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#434345 - 01/13/16 01:19 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: esshup]
anthropic Offline


Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 1925
Loc: East Texas, USA
Hey, I didn't know that about oaks. Do they give off more tannins than pines? We have a lot of pine trees in the water.
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#434347 - 01/13/16 04:10 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
John Monroe Offline
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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 1105
Loc: East Central Indiana
Just an observation. Back in the years I went to Canada fishing many of the waters were tea color, tannic acid, but the fishing was great.
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#434349 - 01/13/16 06:40 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Dave Davidson1 Online   content
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14052
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Anth, I also thought it would be a good idea. It was a disaster. When my big pond was built, I had a lot of the green oaks that had been pushed down moved into the bowl for structure. We got a big rain and the pond filled about 1/2 way. Within a week it turned blackish.

I wasn't worried. Like John, I had fished tea colored water in East Texas. I went ahead and stocked. Within 30 minutes, catfish, fatheads and bluegills were piping at the surface. Crawdads were crawling up onto the banks. Within hours they were all dead. I started calling around and very little was known about it. Then I talked to a couple of old time pond builders that had seen the condition. The oak tanins were lethal. I figured adding chlorine, like in a swimming pool, would clear it. I wound up adding enough chlorine to clear 2 Olympic sized swimming pools. The water changed color, a little bit. I tested with BG's in a minnow bucket but it was still lethal. I wound up having to pump the whole thing dry and letting the Texas summer eliminate the problem. BTW, the chlorine, according to Bill Cody, also leaches into the soil and creates its own problems when we eat the fish. With the help of summer heat and our frequent droughts the problem ended about 2 years later and I cautiously restocked. But, I first tested with some BG from my creek.

According to Lusk, the condition exists in certain types of soils but I don't recall the details. Nor do I need to. I just won't do it again. You can test it by taking some fresh branches and setting them in a wheel barrow full of non treated pond water. If it doesn't change color, you may be OK. However, as stated, I'll never take the risk again.

I won't even cook with fresh oak. I've seen the tannins discolor the meat on camping/hunting trips.

To me, oak is firewood. I now even test cedars which don't seem to have the problem.
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Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#434352 - 01/13/16 07:27 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Dave Davidson1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5497
Loc: SE Kansas
That is interesting Dave. I put a number of stump with root mass in my pond but they were mostly Osage Orange, and had no problem. But when I refurbished my son's pond, I also put in several stumps but come to think of it I think they were mostly Pin Oak. I never thought anything about it at the time.

But it seems my son's pond has to date not have BG thrive like I think they should have. I don't think the ones we stocked from my pond died, because he did some limited feeding and the fish were there. But it just seems like there was not the explosion of BG fry that I would have expected.

I wonder now if that could been part of the problem? I would think if it is, after a couple of years and flow through of water it would eventually self correct. But I will not put Oak stumps in the bottom of a pond if I ever build another one.
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#434355 - 01/13/16 08:04 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5927
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW last summer I was considering putting some small mulberry trees into the pond. On DD1's advice, I took a few sticks and put them in a bucket with a couple 1 inch BG. The BG died in less than an hour. Repeated the test with fewer sticks and got the same result so, mulberry trees are also something you might not want to toss in, at least green ones. I've not tried fully cured ones.

IMHO the safest route is to only put cured trees in the pond if possible and, even if cured, I would still perform DD1's bucket test.


Edited by Bill D. (01/13/16 08:24 AM)
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#434359 - 01/13/16 08:57 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1542
Loc: NE Missouri
I cut three or four pretty big cedar trees and put them in my pond. I didn't want them taking over a field, and thought they might last longer than other types of trees. We do a lot of swimming in the pond so I've marked them off with duck decoys. I've also put artificial structure around them. So far so good as far as seeing fish use them for cover. Mostly FHM, but if they are there the larger fish should be around.
Reading about the problems with oak, I'm kind of glad I didn't leave oak stumps in the bottom. We burned most everything, sold off the sellable timber, and buried stumps so i don't have to look at them.
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I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#434365 - 01/13/16 10:08 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: SetterGuy]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5497
Loc: SE Kansas
About two months ago I put some fresh cut cedars under my dock for cover. Like you, I have not seen a problem. But it was 4 relatively small trees in a 3 acre pond.

I suspect a single stump in a large pond might not be a problem. The fish might avoid it for a while but eventually it would be ok. But lots of fresh cut wood or stumps in a relatively smaller amount of water might be a problem, at least with the wrong kind of trees.

Good information for new pond owners to be aware of.


Edited by snrub (01/13/16 10:10 AM)
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#434368 - 01/13/16 10:27 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2887
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Befree, lots of Sweetgum trees in Louisiana. It's what I used in my pond and were added as one of the last things I did at the time of ponds completion and just before water was added. I also added the root balls from the sweet gum trees.

I have had no problems with the root balls or the trees floating. Maybe because the sweetgum tree holds a lot of water in the tree itself. I have seen no problems with these trees and they hold fish.

Tracy
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#434379 - 01/13/16 12:36 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Cray Offline


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 304
Loc: South Georgia
I am adding a lot of cover to my pond as well. I was going to use pecan b/c that is what I have on hand. This has been cut for 4 months. Would it be safe to use?
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#434382 - 01/13/16 12:47 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Cray]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5927
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Cray
I am adding a lot of cover to my pond as well. I was going to use pecan b/c that is what I have on hand. This has been cut for 4 months. Would it be safe to use?


IMHO I would do the DD1 bucket test. If the little fish are alive and active after several hours, I would be more comfortable.


Edited by Bill D. (01/13/16 12:47 PM)
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#434383 - 01/13/16 01:15 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19973
Loc: Miss.
This is an it depends question. DD1 and I have had this discussion many times. He had a serious problem with oaks. I have used them many times and never had a problem. I have also used gums , pines and others with success and without problem.
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#434384 - 01/13/16 01:28 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: ewest]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24033
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I had the top of a white Oak tree fall into a clients small pond. Within a week (before the top was pulled out of the pond) the water turned black and it smelled bad, like a sewer. The pond, around 1/10 ac has an aeration system in it. No dead fish were seen, but that doesn't mean that scavengers didn't clean them up. It took about 3 months for the water to clear up somewhat, and at that time a minnow trap was put in the pond. FHM, Papershells and some BG YOY were observed, so not everything died.

I think it's on a case by case basis, and all depends on the water volume and the amount of tannic acid. Aeration might have played a role in it too.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#434388 - 01/13/16 03:36 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Bfree Offline


Registered: 01/07/16
Posts: 18
Loc: Louisiana USA
Wow, great discussion and thanks for all the input. I have another tread that I've introduced myself to everyone in. In it I talk about my extreme Vol. I have coming in to my pond. A 2" rain in 3-4 hrs will fill my new pond from zero to overflowing. The watershed is great, with 2 stocked bass ponds above me over flowing into my pond. The water coming in is crystal clear. Most of the stumps that are being put into it are oak but are about 2 yrs old. There are also quite a few sweet gums as well. The big tree that I originally mentioned is a sweet gum too. So hopefully and crossing my fingers, and lots of prayers, this will not turn out to be a disaster for a fishing hole. If no fish live, Ive got a really big swimming hole to play in. Time will tell

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#434390 - 01/13/16 04:03 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
ewest Offline
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Hall of Fame 2014

Lunker

Registered: 03/08/05
Posts: 19973
Loc: Miss.
The more water flow through the less chance for a problem with trees.
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#434392 - 01/13/16 04:11 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Bfree Offline


Registered: 01/07/16
Posts: 18
Loc: Louisiana USA
Thanks ewest, that relieves my anxiety about all this. This pond building is keeping me awake all night thinking about it. Hopefully if the rains hold off we are about 1-2 weeks from being done, and I can start sleeping again

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#434394 - 01/13/16 04:15 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5927
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bfree
....This pond building is keeping me awake all night thinking about it. Hopefully if the rains hold off we are about 1-2 weeks from being done, and I can start sleeping again


Good Luck with that! I never stop worrying about pond this or that. That's one of the fun things about owning a pond! smile
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#434397 - 01/13/16 05:28 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bill D.]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2836
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
Bill you nailed it!

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#434481 - 01/15/16 07:39 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Dave Davidson1 Online   content
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14052
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
I doubt that 3 or 4 stumps in an acre would be a problem. I can dry firewood in a couple of months so it probably wouldn't be an issue once it's seasoned. But, given a choice, I would build PVC trees.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#434485 - 01/15/16 08:59 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
dlowrance Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Central IL
I'm with DD1 - you run into problems with certain trees/stumps when your ratio is high. If you have a good size BOW and few stumps/trees you likely won't have trouble.

And I can tell you that within a couple of years the issues resolve themselves anyway. One finger on my large pond was completely chock full of Oak trees when it filled. Within a couple of years of filling there were fish throughout that area, and still are today.
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"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

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#434490 - 01/15/16 09:39 AM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Dave Davidson1 Online   content
Moderator
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 14052
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Actually, I had a big mass of oaks when the area for the pond was built. I thought it would be a great idea to stuff them down into the bowl.

I never learn anything the easy way.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#434519 - 01/15/16 12:02 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bfree]
Bill Cody Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12964
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
One thing to keep in mind when selecting structure is to ask the question: How snag proof is it? This does not only apply to loosing lures but also will that strong big fish wrap your line around the structure and you never land that fish? Thus you leave a trophy fish 'out there' stuck on a lure. Will that 'trapped' prized, expensive to produce, trophy survive or die when it is wrapped up on structure?


Edited by Bill Cody (01/15/16 12:03 PM)
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#434529 - 01/15/16 01:49 PM Re: Types of Trees/Stumps to put into a new Pond [Re: Bill Cody]
dlowrance Offline


Registered: 01/09/12
Posts: 903
Loc: Central IL
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
One thing to keep in mind when selecting structure is to ask the question: How snag proof is it? This does not only apply to loosing lures but also will that strong big fish wrap your line around the structure and you never land that fish? Thus you leave a trophy fish 'out there' stuck on a lure. Will that 'trapped' prized, expensive to produce, trophy survive or die when it is wrapped up on structure?


That scenario is not a deal breaker...it's just time to jump in and play follow the fishing line.

The summer I got home from the military years ago I was fishing Rend Lake with my BIL - for anyone that has fished that lake it has a LOT of snags.

I hooked into what I thought was an 7-8 lb LMB or so...big pig. She dove deep and wrapped around a standing tree - I felt her do it...I said to my brother in law 'oh no you don't'...handed him the rod and dove in.

I wish he'd have had a camera when I came up out of that water, fish first. Had to go down about 10 feet...at that point in my life I'd spent a ton of time a good bit deeper than that...nooooo problem.

She was only about a 5 lb LMB. But still worth it.
_________________________
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"When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous

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