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As I understand things, excess phosphorus in a pond can come from several sources. One of which may be through decaying material. One source might be from dying fish that settles to the bottom of the pond. And so, as per my pond goes, the pond had an abundance of Tilapia. And as the water temps cool down, Mother Nature has stepped in. The Tp have been dying and floating or have become slow movers and that makes them an easy meal. Cormorants are there every day to remove these fish. And in the past couple of weeks I have had a Bald Eagle show up most everyday for an easy meal. So yesterday a second Male Bald Eagle shows up for an easy meal. A sight I would not expect to see everyday here in E Texas. And they are not the only birds showing up around the pond. Crows are there in the trees, and Vultures circle looking for a fish that has been left on the bank from what I suspect was left by a raccoon after getting his fill of Tilapia. And the turtles and the crawfish and the FHM's are also feeding on the dead Tp. Did I forget to mention the Texas legacy CBLMB feeding on the slow moving Tp. Most of the things I list here were never in my mind when I decided to stock Tp. One I never thought of was how mother nature might work in helping to reduce phosphorus from a pond.
PS, A while back a certain person here requested Pics of the Bald Eagle and now its Eagles, and I will try to get that done.
Tracy
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Nice......I've seen a few BE here too.
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During our deer hunt the first week of Dec there was three around our area in Ontario Canada. Now that the leaves are all off the trees I have noticed a very large nest that can only be from the bald Eagle.
They were very common around here in the 60's I understand from my dad but some chemicals over used in agriculture knocked them back. Great to see their return.
Cheers Don.
Last edited by DonoBBD; 01/10/16 10:10 AM.
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The Tilapia are pretty tasty for human consumption also. We used a flashlight and dip net at night to net about 30 when they were slow moving and sluggish near the shore line. Would see them slowly drift to near the surface where I could just see their dorsal fin. Used an ordinary landing net that later we taped a piece of PVC tube to so it would have a little longer handle.
Last edited by snrub; 01/10/16 10:32 AM.
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After my first year of aquaponics I was surprised that the tilapia I harvested were some of the best tasting fish I have ever eaten. I had purchased some at a grocery previously and they had an off flavor.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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snrub, did your cold Tp have any discolor or slimy looking growth on them? Mine do not look like anything I would want to eat. And from what I learned here on the forum, this is caused by stress. But then again the birds and animals are eating them. Rite now I could catch a mess of them using a dip net.
Tracy
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I don't recall seeing any posts where Tilapia are caught on hook and line. Can you angle for them just before the cool weather moves in? Maybe a Stubby Steve?
Last edited by Bill D.; 01/11/16 09:07 AM.
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George used to post pic's of Big Tp he and his wife would catch on a fly. And I catch them on a nymph along with other fly's. I just never caught several big ones at one time. So I would catch and release, but next yr I have a new game plan lol
Tracy
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Catching tilapia. This from the web: "Many anglers fish for tilapia with only a small piece of a night crawler on a small brim hook under a bobber. The fish prefer the small pieces instead of a whole worm. I have also been told that anglers can use raisins as bait. Tilapia hatcheries feed them floating pellet food making small round bait a good choice. Tilapia have also been caught using hot dogs, dog food, corn and crickets." Spring stocked tilapia will eat some of the fish pellets added for the other fish. This will keep tilapia familiar with eating pellets all summer. As the water begins to cool 60-65F or even before 70F use artificial fish food pellets, such as Stubby Steve's, fished shallow under a bobber to catch tilapia and other species. Harvest selectively. The trick that I found works well is don't wait until the water to cold to fish for them. If you fish for the tilapia while they are still spawning (68F-70F+) you can easily catch lots of them in the shallow spawning areas with pieces of night crawler or hydrated or imitation pellets. https://libinfo.uark.edu/aas/issues/1988v42/v42a30.pdf
Last edited by Bill Cody; 01/11/16 12:22 PM.
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
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Mine looked fine other than some reddishness around and below the gills. Once I got them in the net they would still make an effort to escape and were healthy enough to get away from me a couple times. I dumped them directly into a waiting cooler half filled with ice and water to finish them off and they would thrash around in there for a short while.
When filleted we did not see anything wrong looking with the fish or meat at all. We cooked one batch and they tasted great. Since we were leaving for the winter the rest of the fillets got frozen, then vacuum packed, then put in the deep freeze.
If anything would have looked "off" or bad about them, I would not have kept them.
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In an "open" pond, especially one stocked with LMB, almost no Tilapia will ever go to waste. That is the real magic of Tilapia as a management tool. The T consume what nothing else can/could, and move those nutrients up the food chain, and improving the pond's water quality and overall production capacity.
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So with the fairly numerous benefits of tilapia and thus far based on my readings very few negatives, why is it many states still won't let the pondmeister have them?
Mine, for example?
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Probably fear (valid of not) that they would escape into public waters, multiply and cause stress or strain on whatever native population of not only fish but other plants and critters. They might upset the balance of things.
Not saying they would or would not, just that I imagine that is the fear within the conservation groups.
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Probably fear (valid of not) that they would escape into public waters, multiply and cause stress or strain on whatever native population of not only fish but other plants and critters. They might upset the balance of things.
Not saying they would or would not, just that I imagine that is the fear within the conservation groups. I get that - for most situations. But these guys pretty much have a self-destruct mechanism when you bring them this far north. We don't EVER have winter temps that would allow them to survive....
Dale "When tempted to fight fire with fire, remember that the Fire Department usually uses water." - anonymous
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I understand that. But what, say for instance, if a worble faced whatchamacallet bug that lives only on a rare underwater plant that the Tilapia really like and late in the season because they have reproduced massively the Tilapia fry and fingerlings eat all of this plant that the whatchamacallet bug lives on. The bug is the main food source for a rare dragonfly and so because of lack of food the dragonfly does not reproduce properly. The lack of dragonflys (which prey on a species of butterfly) cause this certain species of butterfly to overproduce which flaps its wings excessively which changes wind currents and causes a hurricane that floods India and kills millions of people. It could happen. Or so the thinking might go. So no Tilapia for you. 
Last edited by snrub; 01/11/16 04:45 PM.
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Probably fear (valid of not) that they would escape into public waters, multiply and cause stress or strain on whatever native population of not only fish but other plants and critters. They might upset the balance of things.
Not saying they would or would not, just that I imagine that is the fear within the conservation groups. I get that - for most situations. But these guys pretty much have a self-destruct mechanism when you bring them this far north. We don't EVER have winter temps that would allow them to survive.... For the same reason that Texas Parks and Wildlife recommended that Hybrid Striped Bass were NOT to be stocked in ponds. Blinders over their eyes and no desire to learn new things.
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Okay, riddle me this:
Pond is intended for trophy bluegills, and has a high number of LMB. BUT...they are small (10-12") bass, not the tilapia gulping dreadnoughts often associated with this strategy.
Pond develops an intense amount of FA. Pondowner decides to stock tilapia as a control measure, but struggles with the stocking amount. On one hand, if he stocks heavy to control the FA, they may well eradicate it completely and begin feeding on pellets, intended for those giant BG....not good. So does he stock light and hope for the best?
Also, to the best of my limited knowledge, Tilapia extract O2 from the water the same as other fish. So if the biomass of this pond is already stretched to the breaking point, wouldn't adding another, rapidly reproducing species, add to the potential problem?
So assuming he goes ahead and adds the tilapia, what happens when cold temps move in? They die. The usual response is that they feed your LMB, thereby utilizing all the nutrients in the FA to fatten up your bass. But wait, this is a trophy BG pond with ONLY small bass. Now what?
So we counter with the fact that turtles and scavengers will dispose of the dying tilapia, which sounds great. Except there aren't any turtles, and how does it go...."for every one dead fish you see, there are how many which never float"? What happens to all the nutrients those non-floating fish had tied up? Right back into the pond's ecosystem it seems to me.
I just don't see it. What have I missed??
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Okay, riddle me this:
Pond is intended for trophy bluegills, and has a high number of LMB. BUT...they are small (10-12") bass, not the tilapia gulping dreadnoughts often associated with this strategy.
Pond develops an intense amount of FA. Pondowner decides to stock tilapia as a control measure, but struggles with the stocking amount. On one hand, if he stocks heavy to control the FA, they may well eradicate it completely and begin feeding on pellets, intended for those giant BG....not good. So does he stock light and hope for the best?
Also, to the best of my limited knowledge, Tilapia extract O2 from the water the same as other fish. So if the biomass of this pond is already stretched to the breaking point, wouldn't adding another, rapidly reproducing species, add to the potential problem?
So assuming he goes ahead and adds the tilapia, what happens when cold temps move in? They die. The usual response is that they feed your LMB, thereby utilizing all the nutrients in the FA to fatten up your bass. But wait, this is a trophy BG pond with ONLY small bass. Now what?
So we counter with the fact that turtles and scavengers will dispose of the dying tilapia, which sounds great. Except there aren't any turtles, and how does it go...."for every one dead fish you see, there are how many which never float"? What happens to all the nutrients those non-floating fish had tied up? Right back into the pond's ecosystem it seems to me.
I just don't see it. What have I missed??
I went to Petco today and they had some really cool Turtles. I wanna get one! Although, when I walked by the display, they all dove for cover. Should be easy to train tho, I mean, bacon does wonders!
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Also, to the best of my limited knowledge, Tilapia extract O2 from the water the same as other fish. So if the biomass of this pond is already stretched to the breaking point, wouldn't adding another, rapidly reproducing species, add to the potential problem?
Tony, From my experience overloading a small 1/10th acre pond with feed trained bluegill and yellow perch, ammonia and nitrites were an issue before any oxygen problems. In a half acre or larger pond it would take a heck of a lot of fish and feeding to have the kinds of issues aquacuturists do that are pushing the limits. That is if there isn't a serious algae bloom. Just my two cents.
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.
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Okay, riddle me this:
Pond is intended for trophy bluegills, and has a high number of LMB. BUT...they are small (10-12") bass, not the tilapia gulping dreadnoughts often associated with this strategy.
Pond develops an intense amount of FA. Pondowner decides to stock tilapia as a control measure, but struggles with the stocking amount. On one hand, if he stocks heavy to control the FA, they may well eradicate it completely and begin feeding on pellets, intended for those giant BG....not good. So does he stock light and hope for the best?
Also, to the best of my limited knowledge, Tilapia extract O2 from the water the same as other fish. So if the biomass of this pond is already stretched to the breaking point, wouldn't adding another, rapidly reproducing species, add to the potential problem?
So assuming he goes ahead and adds the tilapia, what happens when cold temps move in? They die. The usual response is that they feed your LMB, thereby utilizing all the nutrients in the FA to fatten up your bass. But wait, this is a trophy BG pond with ONLY small bass. Now what?
So we counter with the fact that turtles and scavengers will dispose of the dying tilapia, which sounds great. Except there aren't any turtles, and how does it go...."for every one dead fish you see, there are how many which never float"? What happens to all the nutrients those non-floating fish had tied up? Right back into the pond's ecosystem it seems to me.
I just don't see it. What have I missed??
Sparky, if nothing in the pond messes with a dead tilapia that sank, it WILL float once gasses build. Tilapia won't eventually float, only if something ate the guts. Terrestrial scavengers take care of floaters if no aquatic scavengers are around. O2? Tilapia do consume O2, they consume less than most fish, can breathe air, circulate water to "aerate" detritus on the bottom which reduces detritus and the BOD. Is there a limit on what makes a pond OVER stocked with tilapia? I'm sure there is, but SEPM regularly stocks trophy bass ponds with 300# plus per acre. Bluegill eat tilapia fry more than LMB do, so what if a tilapia eats some pellets, the T will get eaten by the BG and T convert the pellets over twice as efficiently...so, if a T eats a pound of pellets, the BG would get 2 pounds worth of nutrition eating the T. In a heavily LMB overpopulated pond, about the only Tilapia that will survive to grow and spawn, will be the original stockers. With both BG and LMB targeting the young Tilapia, more BG will escape the LMB to grow big, potentially providing far more trophy size BG per acre than without T.
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In a heavily LMB overpopulated pond, about the only Tilapia that will survive to grow and spawn, will be the original stockers. With both BG and LMB targeting the young Tilapia, more BG will escape the LMB to grow big, potentially providing far more trophy size BG per acre than without T.
So where do the benefits of tilapia come into play, if they're all gobbled up by bass and bluegill? I thought the plan was for the tilapia reproduction to control the algae? And having more BG escape predation to grow to trophy status sounds great, but isn't the goal to reduce the BG population, so the remaining individuals will have a better shot to grow larger? Adding more mouths to feed seems counter productive to that end.
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"
If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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So where do the benefits of tilapia come into play, if they're all gobbled up by bass and bluegill? I thought the plan was for the tilapia reproduction to control the algae?
And having more BG escape predation to grow to trophy status sounds great, but isn't the goal to reduce the BG population, so the remaining individuals will have a better shot to grow larger? Adding more mouths to feed seems counter productive to that end.
The fry/fingerlings eat the bulk of the algae. Probably 90% of the algae/detritus is eaten by T under 2". Brooders are stocked, not to eat algae, but to reproduce. Females release fry into algae mats and detritus. BG, LMB, and any other carnivorous/omnivorous species will hover over the areas T fry are. As the T fry eat themselves out of hiding places, the T get eaten. If a T makes it to 2-4" (2-5 weeks after birth), they are hard for LMB or other fish to catch, but in a heavily LMB populated waters, packs of LMB will do a number on those medium sized T. Your original question's answer is highlighted in red....the young T being eaten IS your algae nutrient converted to your BG and LMB through the T. The brooder females reproduce every 3 weeks or so...A couple hundred thousand baby T growing to even a quarter to half ounce before being foraged upon, eat a LOT of algae (discount algae water weight)
Last edited by Rainman; 01/12/16 07:38 AM.
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Probably fear (valid of not) that they would escape into public waters, multiply and cause stress or strain on whatever native population of not only fish but other plants and critters. They might upset the balance of things... Snrub, just my WAG, but that's probably why TPWD considers tilapia an exotic species, and limits stocking of tilapia to Mozambique's down here. Our tilapia actually lived until December this year, and I'm betting tilapia are still active in south TX. Some years, Brownsville and the coastal regions could very well not even have an annual die off. I think that's where things start getting sketchy. Up here where we're at, even the blue's wouldn't make it through the winter. Afterthought: Something new we tried this year was hyperstocking 2-3" late season tilapia in our growout pond. They were stocked at 20# per CBLMB, and we'll see how things go. 2 separate high water events this fall make absolute conclusions difficult, but we should know this week how they did.
Last edited by FireIsHot; 01/12/16 08:00 AM. Reason: ADHD
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Probably fear (valid of not) that they would escape into public waters, multiply and cause stress or strain on whatever native population of not only fish but other plants and critters. They might upset the balance of things... Snrub, just my WAG, but that's probably why TPWD considers tilapia an exotic species, and limits stocking of tilapia to Mozambique's down here. Our tilapia actually lived until December this year, and I'm betting tilapia are still active in south TX. Some years, Brownsville and the coastal regions could very well not even have an annual die off. I think that's where things start getting sketchy. Up here where we're at, even the blue's wouldn't make it through the winter. Texas has established, year round Tilapia populations in several lakes. A Texas biologist also provided the one and only claim that Tilapia harmed native fish. His "determination" was based on his inability to find any cause, so he simply blamed Tilapia with no proof whatsoever of Tilapia being a cause for LMB declines. Every other state study I have seen, like lake Dardenelle in Arkansas, has shown significant improvement in native populations when tilapia survive in lakes with a warm water discharge. I think Chris Steeleman worked that lake when in college, perhaps he can add more first hand info...
Last edited by Rainman; 01/12/16 08:00 AM.
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