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#433688 - 01/05/16 10:06 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Mdodson,

Nice to have another Arkansan on the block. I am not originally from here but been here for 28 years now.

If you don't mind me asking where are you located. I have a cabin and pond near Batesville (Mark Martin Country) about 8 miles west of it.

RC

P.S Your plans and place look great! Keep us posted.
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#433699 - 01/05/16 11:10 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
RC, I'm located in the Van Buren area.

Appreciate that.
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#433707 - 01/05/16 03:13 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Hey cool my mother in law lived in Fair Field Bay for quite some time and she still has a house there. Good to have you around.

RC
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#433713 - 01/05/16 03:52 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Haha no the city Van Buren, not the county.
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#433718 - 01/05/16 04:26 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
RC51 Offline
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Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 4237
Loc: Arkansas
Oh lol ok....

RC
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#434171 - 01/11/16 10:57 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
So I've been doing some research. I believe we are planning on doing some sort of aeration for the pond. Problem is we are not going to be able to put electricity down by the pond at first (eventually will once we build a house but that won't be for several years) . Sooo, I've been looking at Solar aeration systems. I've seen the ones that Missouri Wind and Solar has put together and a couple others.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/100-Watt-Solar-Pond-Aeration-Kit-with-Suntaqe-Digital-PWM-Inverter-Controller-/391163087517?hash=item5b13230a9d:g:vYEAAOSwpdpVcKDt



http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thomas-SOLAR-POND-AERATOR-AERATION-SYSTEMS-Finally-affordable-Quality-/300991760286?var=&hash=item461481c79e:m:mUF1NiXa5MuNfhIlvkGOwoA


Whats everyones thoughts on these type of systems. With it being a .8 acres should I go with one or two diffusers. I am somewhat handy so I could DIY something together as well.
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#434175 - 01/11/16 11:38 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12449
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Two items from me.
1. I would not plant the willow trees anywhere near the water. I have seen weeping and other willow trees 30+ft away from the pond extend their hair roots into the pond through the side walls. The roots will appear pinkish and look like some sort of weeds on the bottom. I've seen 1.5" cottonwood roots at the water line from trees 60ft away. Tree roots permeate the bank walls and make the liner porous when the trees eventually die. Trees are aesthetic, but can ruin a pond liner to increase water loss. The added annual leaf inputs cause the pond to age prematurely due to added organics, nutrients, and resulting eutrophication. If you do decide on trees within 50-100ft of the pond select leaves that will decompose relatively quickly - for example not oaks with slow decomposing leaves. You have at least been warned. Lusk in the Jan-Feb 2016 Pond Boss Mag suggests no willow trees and keep all trees back beyond the mature tree height drip line. Mike Otto PB pond builder suggests only bald cypress trees near the pond.
2. IMO and experience for a newly dug or renovated pond you will not need to add aeration for the first 1-3 yrs before fish kills are likely. Not a lot of ecological long term damage is done to new ponds that are not aerated in the first few years. Why? During the first few years fewer organic materials are present to deplete deep water oxygen concentrations to cause major fish kills. Fertilized ponds and ponds in wooded areas are the main exceptions. Rarely will a new pond 1-3 yrs old have fish kills due to pond turnover. Summer fish kills usually occur in older fertile ponds with lots of organic sediment (dead tree leaves!) and dead aquatic vegetation from years of accumulation. These dead organic materials decay and cause fairly quick oxygen loss in a majority of the bottom deeper water. IMO you can wait a few years until electricity is available and then install aeration. If you really want solar aeration go for it.


Edited by Bill Cody (01/11/16 11:51 AM)
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#434179 - 01/11/16 12:04 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Bill Cody]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
I will make three comments about what Bill Cody says.

1. Listen to him, he knows.

2. Some people have things other than the pond itself as their main goal. The pond may be secondary to recreation where the shade trees may be an integral part of the recreation/aesthetics. Which is more important to you? The pond or the whole package that the pond is only a portion of? I chose to leave trees around my son's pond when I refurbished it. For our pond I told my wife she could not have trees on the dam (where she wanted them) or near the pond so we have none (and amazingly so far I got my way). Sometimes pond enthusiasts think of only what is best for the pond itself as if it is the only thing that matters.

3. Aeration will do one thing for a newer pond Bill did not say. In your latitude in the summer your pond will stratify and have a thermocline. The lower water will be of little use to fish during that portion of the year. Aeration will turn the water column over and break up that stratification so the fish can use the entire body of water whereas otherwise they could not during those summer months. If you plan to feed heavily and push your fish for growth, this could be helpful.


Edited by snrub (01/11/16 12:09 PM)
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#434180 - 01/11/16 12:08 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Thanks for the info Bill!

Really, the only place I would put a willow would be on the island. I guess after some years the island could erode away with the roots permeating the bank?


Thanks Snrub.

This land will eventually be my home. I love trees and would like to basically create a park out by the pond with a firepit and picnic tables out under a tree or two (once they are big enough).

Not sure if we plan on feeding or now. Maybe just when my grandma comes to fish (she loves her some minnows)

I've kinda always imagined the island looking something like this.


Edited by Mdodson461 (01/11/16 12:16 PM)
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#434679 - 01/17/16 03:01 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
So we went out to the pond this weekend it the max depth is probably around 5' with most of the pond being between 3' and 4'

Not really what I was hoping for.


Edited by Mdodson461 (01/18/16 10:29 AM)
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#434681 - 01/17/16 03:30 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12449
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
All those tree leaves from the willow (Salix) tree will be in the pond decomposing contributing to algae. Remember this when you are dealing with or killing lots of algae each year. Roots will penetrate from all sides of the island into the pond then transpiring lots of water into the air. Also note in the 1st video below she mentions shrub Salix (willow) as an invader in the later Reed-Swamp Stage of pond succession. In a brand new pond, you are introducing the Salix (willow) tree at the start or beginning.

You should eventually aerate to keep the pond as good as it can naturally be and slow pond succession, although you won't have to aerate right away. Pond health is best if aerated soon after the pond fills, but significant ecological nor biological damage is not done if not aerated the first year or two. The longer one delays aeration the faster the pond moves through the aging process (aquatic or pond succession see example videos below).
http://www.limusicindex.com/video/UsiEcapJ3KU/pond-succession.html
http://www.limusicindex.com/video/fYC5v5d0-jA/pond-succession-l9-6.html



Edited by Bill Cody (01/17/16 03:46 PM)
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#434772 - 01/18/16 10:33 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
I got you Bill. What about a bald cypress then? I want some kind of tree out there on the island haha.

Also I think we are going to seine the pond in the early spring, before the snakes come out, to see what all we have in there. With the depth of the pond being an issue I think we may have to get them to excavate some different parts of the pond when the water is lowered so we get can some of those drop offs and elevation changes that fish like.
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#434775 - 01/18/16 10:41 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12449
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
If you absolutely have to have a tree on the island, I would choose a small mature height variety of ornamental flowering tree that will survive in your area. A good tree nursery person or the University Extension branch should be able to help you with this information. Explain your situation to them to get their best advice.
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#434780 - 01/18/16 11:00 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Haha will do.

Thanks!
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#437834 - 02/16/16 11:24 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas




This was from earlier this year.Its going to be fun this summer and fall once the pond reno is done.


Edited by Mdodson461 (02/16/16 11:28 AM)
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#438802 - 02/25/16 04:16 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Good new. The ole boy got his cows off the property a month before I asked so now we get to move forward with our plan. Met with the builder and got the cost and what all he can do. He didn't foresee any problems. So now we are just waiting on him to get freed up to come out there and start moving dirt.

They plan on just digging a separate pond and leaving a 25' strip of land in between the two. Them coming back with the excavator and digging out the land. Said it should take about 10-12 days to complete.

Here's to hoping the spring rains hold off until they are done.
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#439538 - 03/04/16 09:43 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Well my dad couldn't wait any longer. He went out and put in 50 channel cats and 3lbs of fat head minnows.
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#439541 - 03/04/16 09:57 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12449
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Keep us advised as to how the fishery progresses. How big were the stocker catfish?
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#439576 - 03/04/16 02:47 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Bill Cody]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Keep us advised as to how the fishery progresses. How big were the stocker catfish?


I'd say about 9"

50 for $28. For not knowing anything about buying fish, I'd say that isn't too bad.
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#439585 - 03/04/16 03:27 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
RC for some reason your post was deleted but there's a fish truck that comes down to the local Farmers Co-op once a month that has 11 different species they sell.
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#439948 - 03/09/16 11:05 AM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
And of course my builder comes by and says he's ready to start and we get 5"+ of rain this week. Going to be awhile I guess.
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#444541 - 04/19/16 01:08 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
willywonka Offline


Registered: 06/19/14
Posts: 62
Loc: ontario, canada
Mdodson461 Any update? I am planning a similar expansion and I am very curious how the connecting of the two goes, does a lot of earth wash in when you break through? and how do the fish make out?

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#463879 - 02/13/17 02:49 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
Hey everyone. Sorry about the delay. I just got so busy with work and the kiddo that I haven't been around much lately.

So the pond got dug and was completed in about mid-May of last year. It's around an acre in size with a small island out in the middle. On the existing side the max depth is about 4 to 5 foot and on the new side it is around 7 to 8. Shortly after it was completed the big rain came and filled that sucker up (I don't think its rained since haha). It was bout a foot away from the overflow but currently is about 3 foot from it.

Here are a few pictures.


Edited by Mdodson461 (02/13/17 02:59 PM)
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#463880 - 02/13/17 02:57 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
.


Attachments
IMG_7565.jpg (268 downloads)
IMG_3414.jpg (297 downloads)
IMG_3413.jpg (273 downloads)

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#463883 - 02/13/17 03:02 PM Re: Making an existing pond bigger [Re: Mdodson461]
Mdodson461 Offline


Registered: 12/27/15
Posts: 101
Loc: River Valley Arkansas
We planted some Rye about 3 months ago to try to keep the banks in tact. But the pond is still super muddy. I think I'm going to go buy some clear jars and start doing some tests to see what I can do to clear this thing up.

Also about 3 weeks ago we went out and burned the island to get a nice, cleaned, cleared part of dirt but that didn't work like we thought. We'll have to go out again in a couple of weeks and do another burn.
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