Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations trying to figure it out.......

Man I would not worry to much about the Hybrids when they get to where they turn back into green sun fish, why your blues will be right there to clean them up

but you say some of your blues are already 19 inches!! Man it must be nice!

But you say that the channels are now growing as fast as the blues or are the blues slowing down to the channels?

Greg,No I'm not trying to make you do anything the method that I tried to get across was simple to understand.So let me explain it again.To get this pond back to where it will start to manage itself where bigpond can harvest recommended numbers of fish that are not stunned or all one spieces then it needs to have not extreme harvesting but the spiecies that is found to be small in number restocked to bring back the desired ratio.The way that I recommended is the fastest way to do this with out having to eliminate fish.By stocking the 4"to6" bluegill at a rate that is double normal stocking.Those stunted bass will feed on the food source that was provided.If there is an already stunted bass population then I believe that the spawn will be affected.By letting these bass stay in the pond till they get to be healthy growing harvesting size fish then harvest to get the desired balance between all species then there would be not only nice fish to harvest but the bass and blue gill in the pond will be healthly and growing to become larger in average size than possible by just trying to harvest a certain number of fish from one species.That still doesn't replace the already dominished food supply.The method I suggested replaces food supply plus the species that is lacking will be replinished to be able to thrive and become mature fish.This is the way that I have had success with and still use for this problem it may not seem to be the answer to every case of over populated bass problem I just wanted to share what has worked for me in the past if it gives somebody a few things to reconsider about or an alternative to the normal method I guess it did some good. doc

Big Pond,

One thing I would like to address. I have seen large populations of channel catfish prey upon bluegill and bass. Two years ago I observed this in a pond in Oxford, Ga. The pond (2 acres) was always bass heavy, the owner stocked an estimated 600 Channel and with regular feeding they grew to about 7 pounds. At the same time the owner began to havrvest his small bass. After a few years of this the bass and bluegill population did not rebound. I conducted an shocking survey becasue the bream and bass seemed nonexistant. The only solution I could come up with was the catfish. I recommended the removal of some of the cats and the bass and bream have rebounded nicely. I dont know how many catfish you have but I thought they may hinder you if the population is large.

Also, I shock ponds and harvest bass as well. I resell the small bass to pond owners and fish hatcheries, it helps cut the cost to you for shocking services. Somtimes I catch so many bass the shocking survey doesnt cost the land owner a dime. you can reach me a www.proponds.com

Shan O'Gorman
Professional Ponds

Big_Pond,

It appears that the Blues growth has slowed and the channels have gained a great deal. I know that there will be somebody out there that calls Bull_ _ _ _ ! on the length that they have attained,but it is true.

I feed twice a day to satuartion (all that they can eat in 20 minutes) and I feed aquamax 600. The one thing that I believe has attributed to their growth is, they have never stopped eating during the winter. Yes, a few real cold days they did not come up, but on a whole they ate right on through.

I think that when you consider what you want out of your lake, it's important to look at the big picture. Do you want a trophy lake that you can pull ten pound plus fish out of or a good balanced fishing lake. The later is what I chose and if I can catch a few smaller bass in the four to five pond range, well that is great. I think it comes down to the old adage, "Quantity Vs. Quality". I chose Quantity. You know I have never even heard this point being addressed on this forum. All I have heard is how to raise trophy size bass. Guess I am getting thought provoking in my posts. I'm on my way to being a pondmeister

newbee,

how long ago did you stock blue cats? Have you seen any reproduction from these fish? Do you harvest in large numbers? How large is your pond/lake?

thanks

Shan O'Gorman
Professional Ponds

Shan,

I stocked last July, and by own admission I know that these species of fish could back fire on me in the future (as they grow in size). I feel that since my pond is smaller in size (one Acre) I could control their numbers by fishing and cull when needed.

In recent weeks I have allowed some fishing in the pond to take a few of the larger fish out (NO BASS), but not to many (to early). I keep records of catches and to that end, plan to keep a close eye on the ponds maturity.

I have listened very well to the experts and have applied their knowledge where I can. I did state in an earlier post that I am hard headed in some areas and do what I feel is right, but I am always open to your input. I am no expert, just a guy that owns a pond and listens.

Bob Lusk has stated on this sight that the more predators one has in his pond the more difficult it will be to balance, ie. the right amount of food for the right amount of fish (Not a direct quote), so I know I have my work cut out for me. All I can do is keep a close eye on the pond by keeping records of catches, cull when needed and listen to guys like you.

Thanks, Newbee

Shane
My pond is in sandersville GA it is between 9 and 10 acres in surface acreage. I gues we could start by taking everything under 12 inches as far as the bass are concerned. Now as far as the cat fish what would you recomend?? Everything under 3 pounds? and leave all the big cats? Where are you located?

Newbee,

thanks for the info. I think you are right in the fact that you can easily control fish in a one acre pond. I have no experience with blue catfish. I do have some with white catfish and I would not recommend them. I recently drained and restocked a 5 acre pond that was severely crowded with them. I shocked the pond 2 years ago and saw a few. the pond was bass heavy so we began removing smaller bass as well. Long story short we had to drain and restock b/c the white catfish dominated when the bass were removed.

keep us posted on your blues, thats an interesting combo

Thanks

Shan O'Gorman
Professional Ponds

Big pond,

I live in Gainesville, GA but I cover Georgia and do some work in S. Carolina, Alababma and Tenn. Sandersville is not too far at all.

lets not determine what fish need to be removed until we get a look at what you have. It may take a few surveys to get the fish out we need.

also what type of fishing are you trying to achieve. The catfish dont bother me if large catfish are what you are going after. Some of the fish dealers around here stock catfish by the thousands. how many have you stocked? How many have you harvested? If you have 300 pounds of cafish per acre you can expect a difficult time in growing big bass. give me a call so we can talk in more detail you can get my info at www.proponds.com

thanks

Shan O'Gorman
Pro Ponds

I dont have to have alot of catfish just some to let me know they are there...I want a few big catfish per acre. But I also want real good bass fishing as well. I think in 9 to 10 acres of water there should be enough for trophy bass and catfish.

If I had to do it over I would start off with 200 redear per acre 400 Coppernose bluegill, 400 native bluegill, and some warmouth for diversity. then I would stock Flordia large mouth 50 per acer, and lastly 10 to 20 Blue cat per acre. I might make the catfish a mixture of blues and channels but still only 10 to 20 per acre. Would then add supplemental feeding to this combonation.

But that starting over...Now I amjust going to do what people say to do in this post. Fish all the small bass under 12 inches out and add a feeder. I gues I harvest all the channels under 3 ponds.

By the way how do you tell the differance between a channel and a blue when they are large, say over 8 pounds?

big pond,

Watch for the average size bass not so much a certain inch class. You may see bass grow over 12 inches but will still be underweight for their age and length. As you harvest bass (over the next few years) you will need to change your slot. make sure you pay attention to the weight of fish you remove not just the number of fish. Its possible in crowded conditons that 100 - 12 inch bass will not weigh 100 pounds.

Catfish ID

Adult channel catfish = 24-29 anal fin rays

adult blue catfish = 30 anal fin rays

Your stocking rates for you hypothetical restocking look OK as long as you are stocking a fertilized pond. I would probably scale the Red Ear back to 100 per acre. I have no experince with blue cats so if it were my pond I would not stock them. I like to play it safe.

later

Shan
Pro Ponds

big pond, It soulnds like you wat what two of my clients have. One has a 10 acre lake in McDonough. His average bass RW is over 100% and his average channel cat is over 12 lbs with some over 20 lbs in only 4 years. He feeds heavily by having his farm hand driving a boat and feeding all over the lake at 50 lbs./day during the warm season. He as slowly removed his catfish since he now wants a more trophy bass pond and realizes he could have mnore bass forage by taking out some cats. However myh point is you can do both with willing to give up a little on the bass side and be very happy with the results. As mentioned I still suggest a complete lake audit including electroshock to evaluate current situation and provide proper futur recommendations. You mentioned if you had it to do over. I don't think yoiu will have to. SImply harvest more bass, possibly stock more forage (3-6 inch bluegill and threadfin shad) and then stock larger cats so the bass do not eat them upon stocking. As mentioned several times in this post blues are better predators than channels. Thus I would stock less of them. Stocking 100/channel per acre and 25/blues per acre should result in a good situation when feeding in several spots around the lake. I suggest feeders in a least two locations on a 9 acre lake. This way you can fill them every time you get the pond maybe once every three weeks. I too will takeout some bass when shocking and it will help recoup cost. Good luck, Greg

What a thread! Short time, too. Did I sense more than a little passion, boys? Great fun!
I'd like to spend a minute, and simplify some of the concepts in this thread.
First, great input, everyone. This site continues to grow. Competing views don't water down the concepts. Quite the contrary. It shakes out the chaf, leaves the meat. Several people have different thoughts about management, and each can certainly argue their points....and be correct.
Fisheries management isn't that tough, once you understand a few basic principles. What makes things tough is constantly evaluating your fishery accurately enough to make wise decisions, then creating a timely action plan.
Here's a few principles of fishery management for private lakes and pond.
1) A fishery is dynamic, ever changing. Creatures eat each other, so numbers and sizes always change.
2) The fishery will only be as productive as its food chain.
3) Predators eat prey. Too many predators will overeat the prey, always.
4) Too much prey, predators are fat.
5) Well balanced fisheries have multi-sizes of multi-species, with varieties of cover and native plants.
6) The more predators you have for a given forage base, the smaller the average size your predators will be.
7) A 12 inch bass had to weigh 12 ounces, or it wouldn't have grown to 12 inches. So, if your 12 inch bass weighs 8 to 10 ounces, it lost weight. That's a reflection of imbalanced predator/prey relationships.
8) Diversification of forage species is a great idea, and adds to fisheries management. Diversification of predator species complicates management.
9) Too many mouths feeding on too little food creates too few forage fish and skinny predators.
Ain't this stuff fun?
10) Feeding fish can be a great asset, by expediting growth rates and increasing a pond's standing crop. But, be aware of this...feed two pounds of fish food, you get one pound of fish, one pound of waste. Your pond becomes a septic tank. Too much waste in too little water leads to a natural correction. And, you won't like it.
11) Pond management is built around solid science and a vast amount of art. Water quality, chemistry, fish species, plant types, soils, nutrients, management styles all play a role. So many variables, only one life to figure it out. Do what works for you, and try to learn from everyone else's mistakes.
12) Look at your strategy as a necklace. Add a pearl, then another. Wear it, enjoy.
13) Heed the advice of professionals.
14) Heed the advice of amateurs.
15) Heed the advice of experiences.
16) Forget all the above, and do it like you want.

The bug zapper is a good idea but I have a bug-lite fish feeder that is a much better product. I bought it mid-summer last year and it works very well during the night. The water below it is black with fish and they hit the water continuously. The bugs are still alive and in tact. Bug zappers may kill the bugs and feed the fish but all the protein is fried and the fish don't get the nutrition. I am very impressed with this item. My fish are gaining weight and are leaving the fatheads alone. We stopped seeing fish feeding during the day after the first week. We have a ton of horse flies and would much rather feed them to the bass than our forage base. I ordered this on a whim from the pond boss mag add. It is well worth it if you have a healthy insect population. Much cheaper than fish feed.