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This is AP's pic that I like.


















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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Just as a reference,, a fish ceases being a fry by fishery definition when it develops a full compliment of fins and usually scales.

Thanks Bill, I didn't know that. The fingerlings were 1/2" long.

Originally Posted By: ewest
A 12 in PS might be a world record. Nice pics AP and thanks for posting them. Another way of referencing young fish is as young of the year (yoy)

Erik the state record is 1Lb.9oz.& 11&1/2 inches, it was taken about 30 miles from here.

Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
AP does love his PS! What's not to love about such a pretty fish...

Yeah Travis they look great but they are also tough little buggers and can stand up to frigid winters.

I believe a 12" PKS is reachable given good genes and enough time, question is will I live that long. grin



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From what I can tell that is the world record. So if you go 12 inches and 1-10 you will have the WR.
















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As long as you're not in Indiana AP. Here in Indiana as you know I was denied a state record because my fish was on a "feeding program." LOL Apparently someone here thinks all it takes to grow a state or world record is to feed the fish!

I don't have a problem with it but to say feeding is all it takes...

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 08/13/12 08:23 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
As long as you're not in Indiana AP. Here in Indiana as you know I was denied a state record because my fish was on a "feeding program." LOL Apparently someone here thinks all it takes to grow a state or world record is to feed the fish!

Cecil this chart shows that NJ,and ohio allowed a private pond record, I don't know if NY allows a record from a private pond.
http://www.landbigfish.com/staterecords/fishrecords.cfm?ID=30



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With the cold weather coming in I moved my PS's indoors from the mini pond to the RAS.
My 1st generation of PS's hatched from my biggest breeders are 27 months old, I selected the fastest growers and they are up to 7 inches long now.
They spawned this summer and I kept 16 of the biggest 2nd generation offspring.

Here's one of the 27 month old 1st generation.



Here's one of the 2nd generation 3&1/2 month old PS's.


They all appear to be growing at well above normal rate but it's gonna be a few years before I know if it really works.



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They look great! How well do they feed on pellets?


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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That 7 incher is a toad!!


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Very nice fish AP ! Sure it's working. You have live fish that are growing.
















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The PS's eat well, the bigger ones get Salmon and Krill and aquamax, the juveniles get crushed aquamax and Plankton.

They are all plump. grin



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Originally Posted By: adirondack pond
Here's one of the 27 month old 1st generation.



What a terrific fish!!!


Holding a redear sunfish is like running with scissors.
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That's a beaut


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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AP,

I just read that upstate NY in the higher elevations will get 24 to 30 inches of snow. Are you ready?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
AP,

I just read that upstate NY in the higher elevations will get 24 to 30 inches of snow. Are you ready?

They're calling for 12 to 17 inches right now so that's not too bad, we're use to it, but as I get older I enjoy it less. grin



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I stocked 2 to 3 inch PS in the fall of 2014. First question.... is it possible my PS could be big enough to spawn spring 2016? Second question...my understanding is PS spawn once a year in water temps higher than YP but lower than BG... is that true?


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Bill,

Not sure if AP posts here anymore. Last post was April of 2013. I know he got honked at the moderation a few times.

If PS are anything like bluegills they certainly could have spawned. BG are capable of spawning as YOY. I've had 4 inch YOY spawn.

As far as the temps of spawning they do seem native to cooler waters of Canada so...


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Thanks Cecil. Yeah I know he's not around anymore but, in the interest of thread consolidation, I figured this was a good place to post my questions and hope a current member would rise to the bait and I was right. I appreciate your input! smile


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After seeing them snorkeling in Cape Cod in a freshwater lake I was ready to put some in my pond. The ones there were nice size, approaching a pound I would guess. LMB around so not very many small ones.

Then I took a look at where they are native on the USGS site.

Pumpkinseed range

A few introduced in NE Kansas but none where I am at. Since my pond has overflow into small seasonal creek, introducing non-native species likely is a no-no, so gave up on the idea.

Probably too far south and too warm water in summer for them to thrive anyway. According to my older brother they used to be in Cow Creek when he was a kid. But I kind of question his memory and/or ability to properly identify fish back then.

Pretty fish though.

Last edited by snrub; 12/18/15 08:06 AM.

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Those Pumpkinseeds are pretty tough, I have seem them thrive in some pretty skanky ponds around here that must have horrible temperature swings (shallow and full sun) and bad water quality (mud and muck). Record size? No, but lots of them anyhow.

I have debated putting them in my pond for a while, simply because they are not shy and would make for better snorkeling than perch. The problem them becomes the top dogs in the pond. I am resisting putting in a breeding population of bass to keep PS in check as I also like my perch, and the perch will get hammered.

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Do PS do well with RES and LES? Does anyone know a source near SW Michigan?

They are beautiful! and adapted to northern pond conditions I see.

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PS can overproduce and stunt much like BG. They compete with RES for snail/crustacean. They can live in IN , KAN and Mich - without issue. There is a study somewhere (forum thread) about the interactions of PS , RES , GSF etc but not sure it covers LES.

Here is the info

From - http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=156567&page=1

Starting a compilation on PS applicable to this thread.



Food of Three Species of Sunfishes

(Lepomis, Centrarchidae) and

Their Hybrids in Three

Minnesota Lakes •

DAVID A. ETNIER

TRANS. AMER. FISH. SOC., 1971, NO. 1

It is interesting

to note that hybrids between green sunfish

and pumpkinseeds from Sieverson and

Long Lakes agreed more closely with pumpkinseeds

than with bluegills in regard to the

consumption of Hyalella and snails, while the

Squaw Lake hybrids that were predominantly

between green sunfish and bluegill agreed

more closely with bluegill in this regard. Fish

were a rather insignificant food for hybrids,

but were more frequently ingested by hybrids

than by any of the parental species. A consistently

high percentage of hybrid stomachs

contained food (Table 4).





Transactions of the American Fisheries Society 116:98-102, 1987

Test of Genetic Differentiation in Growth of Stunted and

Nonstunted Populations of Yellow Perch and Pumpkinseed

DANIEL HEATH 1 AND DEREK A. ROFF 2



pumpkinseed

Lepomis gibbosus populations of Lac Hertel, Qu6-

bec.

Pumpkinseeds have been known to

be stunted since 1973 (W. C. Leggett, McGill University,

unpublished data), and again anecdotal

evidence suggestsa much longer period of stunting

Fish

The species of fish found in Lac Hertel include the following eight species:

northern pike (Esox lucius)

rock bass (Ambloplites rupestris)

yellow perch (Perca flavescens)

pumpkinseed sunfish (Lepomis gibbosus)

golden shiner (Notemigonus crysoleucas)

mudminnow (Umbra limi)

white sucker (Catostomus commersoni)

brown bullhead (Ictalurus nebulosis)


This is not the info I have previously read.

Vital Statistics of a Michigan Fish Population, with Special Emphasis on the Effectiveness of Stocking 15-cm Walleye Fingerlings
PERCY W. LAARMAN

North American Journal of Fisheries Management 1981;1:177–185


Mean total mortality rates of smallmouth bass (Micropterus dolomieui), bluegills (Lepomis macrochirus), pumpkinseeds (Lepomis gibbosus), and black crappie (Pomoxis nigromaculatus) were 60, 66, 72, and 58%,




MICHIGAN DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES

FISHERIES DIVISION

Redear Sunfish Management in Michigan

Gary L. Towns

Fisheries Technical Report 2003-3

September 30, 2003

http://www.michigandnr.com/PUBLICATIONS/PDFS/ifr/ifrlibra/technical/reports/2003-3tr.pdf



After several years of observations, an

Indiana Department of Natural Resources,

fisheries biologist reported that redear sunfish

didn’t seem to “stunt” in growth like some other

panfish species (Neil Ledet, 1987, personnel

communication)





Some fisheries managers have speculated

that redear sunfish may out-compete native

panfishes in Michigan, especially pumpkinseed.

Redear sunfish and pumpkinseed both consume

snails. In fact, no other native fish species in

Michigan’s inland lakes uses snails as a primary

food item, so it is logical to assume that there

will be competition between these species. In

centrarchids, molariform teeth are present only

in redear sunfish and pumpkinseed (Trautman

1957), and mollusk-eating in centrarchids is

usually associated with increases in the

proportion of molariform teeth on the

pharyngeal jaws, among other things (Lauder

1983).

Huckins’ (1997) observations from a pond

competition experiment, and from fish surveys,

suggested that pumpkinseed and redear sunfish

compete, and that competition for snails is the

mechanism of the interaction. Redear sunfish

were superior to pumpkinseed in exploiting

snails. However, this study also suggested that

pumpkinseed may be better able to eat softbodied

prey items - such as aquatic insects.

Huckins’ analysis of pumpkinseed and redear

sunfish populations in two Michigan lakes (Lee

Lake, Calhoun County and Saubee Lake, Eaton

County) suggested the greater crushing strength

of redear sunfish allowed them to shift from a

diet of soft-bodied insects to a diet of snails at an

earlier age than pumpkinseed. Pumpkinseeds

&#8804;2.6 in were consuming primarily soft-bodied

prey such as insect larvae, the bulk of which

were dipteran. Diets of larger pumpkinseeds

(&#8805;2.6 in SL) also tended to be dominated by

chironomid larvae (about 37% of diet biomass),

with snails making up less of the diet (about

29% of the diet biomass). In contrast, Huckins

found redear sunfish in the same lakes showed a

striking shift in diet between small (<1.6 in SL)

and large individuals. Diets of small redear

sunfish contained approximately 30%-50% each

of snails and zooplankton, and the remainder

was dominated by dipteran larvae. Redear

sunfish larger than 1.6 in showed an extensive

shift to molluscivory - approximately 87% of the

average diet was composed of snails. It is

probable that where snails are prevalent the

superior snail crushing ability provides an

advantage to redear sunfish, but it is not so

overwhelming that pumpkinseed will likely be

extirpated after redear sunfish introductions.

Michigan fishery surveys have found

pumpkinseed populations co-existing with

redear sunfish in lakes that have had large redear

sunfish populations for several decades. Fish

populations in Lake George, Silver Lake, and

Coldwater Lake in Branch County and in

Crooked Lake in Washtenaw County are good

examples. Pumpkinseeds were present in most

recent trap net surveys of these lakes, but in low

numbers. In an effort to further examine this

issue, survey catch data for pumpkinseed were

examined in other lakes where redear sunfish

have been introduced (Table 5). In some

instances, specific pumpkinseed data were not

recorded in early (pre-redear sunfish

introduction) surveys. In other cases, redear

sunfish and pumpkinseed have co-existed for

only a few years, so long-term effects from any

competition could not be measured. However,

in most cases, where pumpkinseed survey data

exist, there seems to be no obvious negative

relationship. In 40 post-redear sunfish

introduction surveys, trap net catch-per-effort

(CPE) of pumpkinseeds decreased in 21

situations, increased in 18, and stayed the same

in 1. However, overall average pumpkinseed

CPE declined from 7.6 to 4.7. Total CPE of

redear sunfish and pumpkinseeds combined

increased in 36 of the 40 surveys.

Pumpkinseed growth index changes showed

no specific pattern after redear sunfish were

introduced. Adequate growth index data for

pumpkinseed (pre- and post-redear sunfish

introductions) were available for 9 lakes. Four

of these indicated that pumpkinseed growth

increased after redear sunfish were introduced,

four indicated decreased pumpkinseed growth,

and one was unchanged. The average of these

nine lakes was an increase in pumpkinseed

growth index from 0.2 to 0.3 in after redear

sunfish were introduced.





Last edited by ewest; 12/18/15 10:56 AM.















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Thanks! That is helpful.

They both like snails. I wonder if they (RES and pumpkinseeds)do better in lakes where snails are 'naturally' found? And if they will die out if they happen to be in a lake that doesn't have snails?

Ponds will only have a limited supply of snails and when they are gone they are gone...

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They both can and do eat a lot other than snails. They have an advantage with snails as those 2 species have teeth (phalangeal plates/teeth/crushers)that break up snails.
















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Does anyone know of a fishery that has only RES and pumpkinseeds as the panfish?


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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Thanks! That is helpful.

They both like snails. I wonder if they (RES and pumpkinseeds)do better in lakes where snails are 'naturally' found? And if they will die out if they happen to be in a lake that doesn't have snails?

Ponds will only have a limited supply of snails and when they are gone they are gone...


I have RES, SMB, YP, and GSH and very little cover for snails to hide in. My RES seem to be doing just fine eating "other" stuff, mostly YOY golden shiners would be my guess as RES catchabilty drops quickly once the GSH spawn gets going. I rarely see snails in my pond now but still do see a little bit of evidence that a few snails are breeding.



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