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The tank will need about all of those 4 days to completely cure, so you aren't losing more than about a day.

If you need a hand, give me a shout. Between your you, your Dad and what I have here, I'll bet we have every tool that you'll need to get the job done, no matter what you want to do.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
The tank will need about all of those 4 days to completely cure, so you aren't losing more than about a day.

If you need a hand, give me a shout. Between your you, your Dad and what I have here, I'll bet we have every tool that you'll need to get the job done, no matter what you want to do.


Thanks Scot!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: esshup
Plastic tanks have their advantages, and their disadvantages.

Cecil, you could get 2 pieces of thick plexiglass and bolt them to the bottom of the tank (one outside and one inside) with gaskets between them to seal the bottom of the tank. Then drill a smaller hole thru them for the smaller fitting.


I do not think I mentioned Plastic Tanks, and Plexiglas would be a disastrous solution for this application eek

Last edited by JKB; 10/10/10 09:22 PM.
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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: esshup
Plastic tanks have their advantages, and their disadvantages.

Cecil, you could get 2 pieces of thick plexiglass and bolt them to the bottom of the tank (one outside and one inside) with gaskets between them to seal the bottom of the tank. Then drill a smaller hole thru them for the smaller fitting.


I do not think I mentioned Plastic Tanks, and Plexiglas would be a disastrous solution for this application eek



And also the metal tank bottom wobbles up and down when it's empty. I could see plexiglass shattering! shocked


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: JKB
I really should start hacking and whacking out a simple RAS for PB members. The new galvanized stock tank has been outside, full of water since early spring. It is under a canopy and no algae, or even skeeters took a shine to it. Reason for doing that is I am leaching out the Zinc, and corroding it a bit. Makes it a bit easier to scuff up and coat with epoxy. I know it is toxic, as my dog wont come near the water in the tank. I had a 30 gallon polypropylene barrel collecting water off the canopy not much more than 3 feet away, still out of direct sunlight. And it was full of Algae and all stages of skeeter development shocked


JKB, that's correct, you didn't mention plastic tanks. Let me amend my plexiglass statement to Lexan, or a thicker sorrosion resistant steel so that Cecil could bolt it over the existing hole and make a smaller hole for the 2" pipe. Would a thinner gauge steel (that was the same approximate thickness as the tank) seal, or would it be too flexible to get a good seal?

Cecil, while you have a little time to burn, try sticking a bead of sealer on the black 180 gallon tank and see if it sticks. I'm concerned that you will have a hard time finding a sealer for it.


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Originally Posted By: esshup


Cecil, while you have a little time to burn, try sticking a bead of sealer on the black 180 gallon tank and see if it sticks. I'm concerned that you will have a hard time finding a sealer for it.


Actually I won't have to worry about it. It already has a drain installed, and I'm using Uniseals to slide the axle ends through the biofilter tank. (AES 2010 catalog pg. 364.) The part of the axle that goes through the tank walls does not rotate, and the frame will secure to both ends on the outside of the tank to keep them immobile. I may have to build the frame a little longer but that's not a big deal.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/11/10 03:01 PM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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That's a good idea. I might (read that as probably) have a hole saw if you need one.


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One other possible fix, Fiberglass resin and cloth, put a large patch on both sides.

And then put in some Pumpkinseeds! smirk

Last edited by adirondack pond; 10/11/10 08:26 AM.


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Good suggestion. I keep forgetting about fiberglass because I don't like messing with it.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
Good suggestion. I keep forgetting about fiberglass because I don't like messing with it.


I was just digging out back and found a 9" x 20" piece of 0.090" thick 5052-H34 Aluminum Sheet, plus I got a bunch of 1/4 x 1-1/4 6061-T6 Aluminum Bar to use as a backer flange.

If an 8x8 or 9x9 piece would work to fix the tank bottom, I'll send Cecil enough stuff to fix both tanks.

If Cecil can give me a centerline dimension on the four bolt holes in the tank, plus the hole diameter, I'll whip out a quick drawing for the fix and send that also so you have a plan. Things are always easier with a defined plan.

I am heading to the post office on Wednesday!

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
JKB,

I was going to go with 2 inch hose or PVC from the drain to the bulkhead in the bottom of the clarifier as VanGorder felt the 2 inch pipe worked the best for the u tube siphon. Is it as crucial with the drain and upflow to the clarifier?

I'm not crazy about what AES charges for a 2 inch bulkhead fitting! Maybe I can find a cheaper source on line?


Trying to catch up.

I would stick with the 2" PVC. As you may well know, Every Surface in an RAS will eventually grow bacteria, even the plumbing. Going with smaller means more cleaning, less efficiency.

I would just use one of those cheap shower drains. They actually are a bulkhead fitting, and a piece of flexible hose in the link should be just fine. I have never seen a plastic barrel with a flat enough bottom to hard plumb without twisting something out of shape.

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JKB,

Thanks for the offer but I'll pass. I'm installing the 3 inch flanges tomorrow and will add a 3 X 2 reducer. I wondering if using a 2 inch vinyl hose wouldn't be better than 2 inch PVC to the clarifier tank. I can easily get the right fittings with barbs and can still add a shutoff valve in line.

At the bottom of the clarifier tank install a 't' in the hose so I can shut off flow from the tank, and drain the clarifier tank, when I clean off the filter material and drain the clarifier tank. On the very end of the hose install a male and female screw connection with barbs so I run the line to the floor drain which is about 15 feet away. I already have the hose left over from another project.

When not draining I can mount the disconnected end to the side of the tank as long as the end is higher than the water level.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: esshup
The tank will need about all of those 4 days to completely cure, so you aren't losing more than about a day.


I usually let epoxy cure for 7-10 days based on temp. and humidity. I also sweat it in for a good hour or so after mixing the two parts, again, based on temp. and humidity.

For a tank:
After the cure, water goes in for a couple weeks to try and saturate the coating, also to leach out some of the chemicals that come to the surface. Then I drain it and wash the surface with plain old Ivory dish soap. Rinse it out and do a fingernail test.

Properly applied and cured. Epoxy is a non toxic, thin film barrier that is totally safe for fish, if you do it correct.

You know things are in your favor if you can rub your fingernail against it and end up with a manicure smile

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: esshup
The tank will need about all of those 4 days to completely cure, so you aren't losing more than about a day.


I usually let epoxy cure for 7-10 days based on temp. and humidity. I also sweat it in for a good hour or so after mixing the two parts, again, based on temp. and humidity.

For a tank:
After the cure, water goes in for a couple weeks to try and saturate the coating, also to leach out some of the chemicals that come to the surface. Then I drain it and wash the surface with plain old Ivory dish soap. Rinse it out and do a fingernail test.

Properly applied and cured. Epoxy is a non toxic, thin film barrier that is totally safe for fish, if you do it correct.

You know things are in your favor if you can rub your fingernail against it and end up with a manicure smile


JKB,

The stuff I am using is called Tile Doc and it supposed to be completely cured in 24 to 36 hours. It's used to repair bathtubs, sinks etc. I do know it's really, really, hard after a few days and almost impossible to sand. I tried it when I had to rip out the drain and scrape rust and there was some at the edge of the rust. The stuff around the edges was impossible to remove without a grinder.

The other coatings have been in the tank for about a week now. So I really need to fill and drain again eh?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: esshup
The tank will need about all of those 4 days to completely cure, so you aren't losing more than about a day.


I usually let epoxy cure for 7-10 days based on temp. and humidity. I also sweat it in for a good hour or so after mixing the two parts, again, based on temp. and humidity.

For a tank:
After the cure, water goes in for a couple weeks to try and saturate the coating, also to leach out some of the chemicals that come to the surface. Then I drain it and wash the surface with plain old Ivory dish soap. Rinse it out and do a fingernail test.

Properly applied and cured. Epoxy is a non toxic, thin film barrier that is totally safe for fish, if you do it correct.

You know things are in your favor if you can rub your fingernail against it and end up with a manicure smile


JKB,

The stuff I am using is called Tile Doc and it supposed to be completely cured in 24 to 36 hours. It's used to repair bathtubs, sinks etc. I do know it's really, really, hard after a few days and almost impossible to sand. I tried it when I had to rip out the drain and scrape rust and there was some at the edge of the rust. The stuff around the edges was impossible to remove without a grinder.

The other coatings have been in the tank for about a week now. So I really need to fill and drain again eh?


Gotta watch out what you are using:

Product Description: XIM’s Tile DOC is an Engineered two component finish that bonds strongly to porcelain and will hold up to cold
and hot water. The Tile-DOC is a gloss white that looks just like tile. It can be used as a white or tinted to a pastel color.
Not recommended for:
* Galvanized metal * Metal surfaces * Flexible surfaces
* In Swimming Pools Nor in Hot Tubs or Jacuzzis
Note: Not Flame or High Temperature Resistant
Note: Always Clean Tile DOC only with “Soft-Scrub” cleaners or mild detergents like 409 or Fantastic to prevent marking.



I only do the soak test to check total integrity of coating on a new tank, to find any problem spots. Not necessary on a touch up job.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: esshup
The tank will need about all of those 4 days to completely cure, so you aren't losing more than about a day.


I usually let epoxy cure for 7-10 days based on temp. and humidity. I also sweat it in for a good hour or so after mixing the two parts, again, based on temp. and humidity.

For a tank:
After the cure, water goes in for a couple weeks to try and saturate the coating, also to leach out some of the chemicals that come to the surface. Then I drain it and wash the surface with plain old Ivory dish soap. Rinse it out and do a fingernail test.

Properly applied and cured. Epoxy is a non toxic, thin film barrier that is totally safe for fish, if you do it correct.

You know things are in your favor if you can rub your fingernail against it and end up with a manicure smile


JKB,

The stuff I am using is called Tile Doc and it supposed to be completely cured in 24 to 36 hours. It's used to repair bathtubs, sinks etc. I do know it's really, really, hard after a few days and almost impossible to sand. I tried it when I had to rip out the drain and scrape rust and there was some at the edge of the rust. The stuff around the edges was impossible to remove without a grinder.

The other coatings have been in the tank for about a week now. So I really need to fill and drain again eh?


Gotta watch out what you are using:

Product Description: XIM’s Tile DOC is an Engineered two component finish that bonds strongly to porcelain and will hold up to cold
and hot water. The Tile-DOC is a gloss white that looks just like tile. It can be used as a white or tinted to a pastel color.
Not recommended for:
* Galvanized metal * Metal surfaces * Flexible surfaces
* In Swimming Pools Nor in Hot Tubs or Jacuzzis
Note: Not Flame or High Temperature Resistant
Note: Always Clean Tile DOC only with “Soft-Scrub” cleaners or mild detergents like 409 or Fantastic to prevent marking.



I only do the soak test to check total integrity of coating on a new tank, to find any problem spots. Not necessary on a touch up job.


But it does say:

For bare steel remove all rust and spot prime...

So metal in itself may not be a no no. I will call the manufacturer this morning. Sure hope I didn't screw up. It wouldn't be the first time I've used someone's else's advice and it was wrong. frown I would have loved to use AES's fish safe epoxy but the minimum order was a gallon kit and the price as it usually is with AES was way up there! Not to mention the shipping all the way from Florida!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/12/10 06:06 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I just called the company. I was told not to use it with continuous use applications and fish. That's what I get for listening to someone at Sherman Williams that doesn't raise fish. $45.00 wasted! frown

Now I will have to grind it off and order a different product! More delays! mad


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I ordered West Systems (Does Eric have relatives in
RI?) grin 105 resin and 205 fast hardner that came highly recommended by a public aquarium in Texas here:


http://forum.nanfa.org/index.php/topic/10679-fish-safe-epoxy-source/page__pid__82854#entry82854

The best part is both including measuring pumps came to under $60.00 before shipping!

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/12/10 08:16 AM.

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Sorry you got the wrong stuff in the first place. When I suggested Sherwin Williams, I meant one of their epoxy paints, not a 3rd party product they sell in one of their outlets.

I should have been more specific blush

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Sorry you got the wrong stuff in the first place. When I suggested Sherwin Williams, I meant one of their epoxy paints, not a 3rd party product they sell in one of their outlets.

I should have been more specific blush


It's not your fault. Honestly didn't remember who recommended them anyway. At least now I can sleep at night not worrying if the fish will die! It's a good thing you questioned it and caused me to call the manufacturer!

Hey should I be worried about the plastic tank I bought? It's recycled plastic. I washed the inside good but it still beads as if it has some kind of mold release still on it. Esshup recommended tsp.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/12/10 08:44 AM.

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Are there any markings like LDPE, HDPE, PP, or something. I googled recycled stock tanks, and the ones I saw were made from 100% recycled LDPE (Low Density Polyethylene), which is fish safe. Polyethylene's in general have somewhat of a self lubricating property, some more than others. UHMWPE is a very good bearing material and darn near as slippery as Teflon. You should not have an issue with the plastic tank, just verify the material it is made from.

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JKB,

You're not going to believe this:

I got a call from an old acquaintance today asking pond questions for a friend. I hadn't talked to him in at least a year. He's a commercial paint supplier and contractor. Super nice guy. Anyway he asked me if I knew someone in aquaculture that he had just painted some concrete fish tanks for. Of course I did as it's small group in this state. I told him about my experience with the epoxy and his response was I should have called him and he would have given me a gallon of the stuff he painted the tanks with for free! I could shoot myself! He's still going to give me a gallon for free when he's in the area next week and I think I'm going to use it even though I have other stuff on order. He says this stuff is safe enough to drink from and stays flexible, which is what I need for a metal tank as they flex little as they fill (definitely true), and the stiff epoxies sometimes can't fully handle that. It also sticks to itself well unlike other epoxies.

I could have saved myself some money if I had only thought of calling him!

Looks I like I will have some of the other resin for sale really cheap if anyone is interested. Hint, hint.



Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/12/10 08:22 PM.

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Thats good!

Did he tell you what brand it was, I would like to check it out also.

Thanks for the update.

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Said it was made by CIM Industries. I can get more specific info for you when he brings it over.

Here's the website:

http://www.cimindustries.com/markets-for...earchterm=tanks

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 10/13/10 03:53 PM.

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Make sure you read everything about the product. Here is just one thing: Decontamination

They recommend testing the safety of the tank with guppies before stocking any valuable fish.

Also ask if there is any minimum tank size that can be used for fish.

I looked into polyurethanes about 10 years ago, they were quite expensive at the time. Basically the same stuff as the spray on truck bed liners.

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