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#431987 - 12/18/15 06:01 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: Shorty]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5326
Loc: SE Kansas
My 1/20th acre forage pond has only FHM and RES. Last year I had FHM that I could catch minnow trap after minnow trap of minnows. This year very few FHM. A pretty good amount of YOY very small FHM this fall so some adults did spawn. Have pallets for spawning substrate.

Unless something has went wrong with the water in this pond (and I have no reason to believe so) the only thing I can think of with the low FHM production is that the RES are hammering them. Threw a cast net a few times and came up with some 7" RES. Have only caught a few YOY RES. Disappointed in that also. As far as snails, I have from the beginning enormous amounts of snails. Now with RES in all ponds, very few adult snails. But in the forage pond as well as the other ponds, if a person looks closely at the 1/4" deep water around the edge where there is fresh algae growth there will be lots and lots of baby snails the size of a pin head. Move on out into the water and have to turn over rocks to find adult snails.

So my suspicion is that there are enough RES in my forage pond to keep the snails in check and any out in the open get eaten as soon as they get in deep enough water for the RES to get to them. Since the snails are probably not enough forage for all the RES in the pond, I think they are then turning to the FHM for the rest of their meal. At least that is the best theory I have to date.

I also had lots and lots of FHM in my 1/10th acre sediment pond. Now that the RES have had a year to grow and get some size, FHM are getting rather scarce in this pond also. Only other fish in there are CNBG I stocked at same time as the RES. A few hybrid BG also but I pull all those I catch or trap and put elsewhere, so not many of those.

My conclusion is that RES can eat a lot of FHM when other more preferred food gets scarce.


Edited by snrub (12/18/15 06:02 PM)
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#431991 - 12/18/15 06:32 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: snrub]
FishinRod Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Central Kansas
John (snrub),

I have caught Pumpkinseeds in the Boy Scout lake that is in your area. I would estimate 1 per 50 or 1 per 100 of the panfish caught were PS. Unless they require the habitat of the lake environment, then I think they would survive in your ponds.

I have never caught a RES in the Boy Scout lake - unless I somehow misidentified a female. (We usually catch the panfish when using very light tackle for bass - so we probably land a much higher percentage of GSF and have skewed results compared to the actual populations.)

I didn't know that you had stocked some CNBG in your ponds. I thought you were just past the northern edge of their survival territory. How are their growth rates compared to your RES and HBG?

Thanks.

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#432009 - 12/18/15 08:30 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: Shorty]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5707
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Shorty


I have RES, SMB, YP, and GSH ....


Any trouble with controlling the GSH?
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#432012 - 12/18/15 09:12 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: Bill D.]
Shorty Offline
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4241
Loc: Raymond, NE
Not so far but I went heavy on my initial SMB stockings, I do believe that my GSH are somewhat limiting the recruitment of SMB now which is not necessarily a bad thing for my SMB. RES over 7-8" are growing like gang busters and in great body condition, my smaller RES that are competing directly with the larger GSH are more average body condition. If the GSH start getting out of hand I may add a few HSB.
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#432013 - 12/18/15 09:21 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: adirondack pond]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5707
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I like that plan! I was worried if I stock GSH (I have WE as well as YP and SMB) that the GSH would out grow the predator mouth gap. You might sacrifice some YP and SMB YOY but I like the HSB as a fall back position.


Edited by Bill D. (12/18/15 09:47 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarification
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#432027 - 12/19/15 07:32 AM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: FishinRod]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5326
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: FishinRod
John (snrub),

I have caught Pumpkinseeds in the Boy Scout lake that is in your area. I would estimate 1 per 50 or 1 per 100 of the panfish caught were PS. Unless they require the habitat of the lake environment, then I think they would survive in your ponds.

I have never caught a RES in the Boy Scout lake - unless I somehow misidentified a female. (We usually catch the panfish when using very light tackle for bass - so we probably land a much higher percentage of GSF and have skewed results compared to the actual populations.)

I didn't know that you had stocked some CNBG in your ponds. I thought you were just past the northern edge of their survival territory. How are their growth rates compared to your RES and HBG?

Thanks.


I'm not familiar with the Boy Scout lake. What town is it nearest? If there are PS in the area, I would not have the hesitation to stock some. With my BG population as strong as it is and LMB in the pond, the PS would never become anything more than a novelty catch once in a while. I don't see where their numbers could ever grow to significance with the BG already established so well.

My main pond was stocked with northern BG. When I built a 1/10th acre sediment pond that about half my watershed area runs through before it gets to main pond, I put 175 (out of 200 purchased) RES and 100 CNBG from Dunn's fish farm in Arkansas (edit correction - Dunn's is out of Oklahoma) (my main pond was stocked from Wallace Fish Farms in Kansas). At least Dunn's calls them CNBG (there has been speculation that maybe they are some intergrade between northern and CNBG). They do have a somewhat different appearance in that they seem to be somewhat more dishpan shaped with a taller profile and as they have grown the copper is showing up more. It was kind of an experiment. These fish in my opinion have not seemed to thrive as well as their northern counterparts, but that is just my opinion. I wonder if I did not get a pretty large winter kill the first year as the fish were 2" stocked in the fall of last year. These fish will integrate and intermix with the main pond as I have caught some of the larger ones and transferred as well as the overflow water runs directly in the big pond. The CNBG are pretty though. Dunn's route truck goes as far north as central Kansas to sell fish, although they tend to push the HBG more than the CNBG.


Edited by snrub (12/19/15 12:11 PM)
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#432040 - 12/19/15 09:38 AM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: adirondack pond]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2095
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Dunn's Fish Farm is in south central Oklahoma.
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#432060 - 12/19/15 12:10 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5326
Loc: SE Kansas
Thanks for that correction! Will change it in my post.
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#432119 - 12/20/15 11:54 AM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: snrub]
FishinRod Offline
Lunker

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Central Kansas
snrub,

Sorry, the Boy Scout lake is 8 miles north of Sedan. [Not as close to you as I thought when we first started chatting via PM.] It is just over 500 surface acres - just a smidgen larger than your forage pond.

Thanks for the report on your CNBG.

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#432173 - 12/20/15 11:10 PM Re: Pumpkinseed home [Re: FishinRod]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5326
Loc: SE Kansas
Yes Sedan would be up close to the area in NE Ks where the USGS shows they were introduced.

The PS are not a big deal for me. In all reality the RES get bigger and would be the better fish to have, and I already have them. After seeing the PS up close (males were nesting in shallow, clear water and we could snorkel right up close and observe) and of pretty nice size they seemed like would be a nice novelty fish to have a few in the pond.

But decided to not pursue it. Last thing I want is for some official looking person come out and tell me I need to kill all the fish in my pond because I introduced a non-native species.
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