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#391743 - 11/05/14 04:34 PM Redhorse Shiners
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
I am seeing a few pond stockers selling redhorse shiners. Anyone have experience with this particular species in ponds?
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#391751 - 11/05/14 07:26 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Gavinswildlife Offline


Registered: 01/25/14
Posts: 43
Loc: Canton, Ohio
Red shiners (Cyprinella Lutrensis) are a very adaptive fish in the minnow family, possibly a forage option. They are considered invasive in many areas, but so are almost all pond fish.
Redhorses (Moxostoma genus) are large suckers found in rivers and streams.

Red shiners sound like a very interesting forage option, but it's best if they don't get introduced into new areas.

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#391758 - 11/05/14 09:12 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
Thanks for the clarification on the names. Most sites had them listed as red horse/head shiners. I am definitely talking about the red shiners not the large suckers. I actually have seen these in local creeks with the bright red colors for a few weeks a year.
I know the golden shiners would be the preferred LMB forage dude to size and shape. Thinking in the ways of a bluegill pond or crappie pond, it states this shiner only grows (2"-3") max and seems to have same habits of nesting and appetite as the larger golden shiner. Possible forage fish paired along with slower fatheads?
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#391763 - 11/05/14 10:16 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
CJBS2003 Offline
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They are not adapted to competition with a high end predator like LMB and would not maintain a population in a pond with LMB, much like FHM don't... Red shiners are closely related to spotfin and satinfin shiners, which are better adapted to competition with high end predator fish.
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#391768 - 11/05/14 10:53 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
I agree with you on the LMB smashing them. But in a bluegill or crappie impoundment without LMB presence would red shiners add a forage niche that the FHM could not fill due to speed or habitat they occupy?
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#391776 - 11/06/14 12:40 AM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
Good question, I'd like to know more about RSH too and their potential role as forage.
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#391808 - 11/06/14 10:58 AM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Bill Cody Offline
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Red shiners would be a very good addition to ponds primarily for yellow perch or forage ponds. Red shiner might be able to survive in a pond with good habitat and walleye or maybe SMB depending on the amount of refuge area of weed beds or extensive dense finely divided structure that imitates weed beds.


Edited by Bill Cody (11/06/14 10:59 AM)
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#391832 - 11/06/14 02:11 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Does anyone know availability of red shiners from hatcheries?
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#391834 - 11/06/14 02:43 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Omaha Offline
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http://fintexasfishfarm.com/Selection.html

Very last species on their list.
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#391835 - 11/06/14 02:54 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Dang, number won't work. Nice snag though, Josh. Maybe I can reach them via email.
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#391854 - 11/06/14 04:51 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
I guess I would need to know how much the recommended stocking of a new pond would need to be for RSH. It also says they would prefer cooler water, so possibly a deeper pond would work better. How deep can corkscrew eel grass grow?
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#431754 - 12/15/15 10:18 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
FishinRod Offline
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Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 113
Loc: Central Kansas
We have Red shiners (Cyprinella Lutrensis) in the streams and rivers in my area (south-central Kansas). I think they would be an interesting forage fish for some PB people to try for several reasons.

First, they will not get too large for your apex predators. The literature says 3-3.5" maximum length. This matches up well with my limited observations.

Second, they are actually an egg-eating species. If you have a pond with overpopulation concerns on one of your species, then there is a possibility that Red shiners could help out by eating eggs in the years that have massive spawns.

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#431755 - 12/15/15 10:28 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5556
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW around here we have Golden Redhorse suckers
(Moxostoma erythrurum). Biggest one I have caught weighed a little over 3 pounds. Typical sucker with tons of tiny bones. I fillet and pickle them. The pickling dissolves all the bones. They are better than any pickled herring I have ever had! smile


Edited by Bill D. (12/15/15 10:29 PM)
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#431760 - 12/15/15 11:06 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
I hope to trap Red Shiners this coming spring to see if I can stabilize a population in one of our ponds.
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#431769 - 12/16/15 08:16 AM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4643
Loc: SE Kansas
Are Red Horse shiners and Red Horse suckers the same fish? I recall shooting an occasional Red Horse sucker while spearfishing rough fish scuba diving in Tablerock lake in SW Missouri back when I was a young buck. Wonder if it is the fish you are talking about or something different? Seems like the Redhorse sucker would get up to maybe a foot long at most.
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#431798 - 12/16/15 11:26 AM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
Not at all Snrub. The Red Shiners I want to obtain rarely get longer than 3-3.5". Some web pages I have searched for then label them as Redhorse Shiners. They are still shiners, not the large golden red suckers. I raise some in a forage pond for bait and possible stocking our farm ponds.
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#431812 - 12/16/15 12:14 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
I've been looking for red shiners for a long time - no luck. I'd love to get some going in a forage pond to provide to others when needed. Let me know how you do, Snakebite - maybe a drive to TN would be in order!
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#431829 - 12/16/15 02:47 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Bill Cody Offline
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TJ - You shouldn't have to go clear to TN to find some red shiners. Most central states in the US have them. Study their spawning requirements before actually acquiring some.
See maps
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_shiner
http://nas.er.usgs.gov/queries/factsheet.aspx?SpeciesID=518
See this info from the link where Charles says:
" They are very abundant in this area as I live in central Nebraska, and they are the most common fish in the Platte river."
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/shiner.htm
You may be surprised at what you catch with a minnow seine used in the Platte River and probably all of its good sized tributaries.

You never were successful contacting these people noted above who list them for 0.25 each?
http://www.fintexasfishfarm.com/Pricing.html


Edited by Bill Cody (12/16/15 03:07 PM)
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#431841 - 12/16/15 06:18 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
Thanks Bill...maybe I should send Omaha on a Platte River seining run this Winter.

I tried contacting that hatchery multiple times without a response. I'm assuming they are out of business.
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#431843 - 12/16/15 06:40 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Snakebite Offline


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 520
Loc: TN, Lakeland
Finfish may be seasonal. I thought I had talked to them earlier this year. Also I've seen these red shiner in certain aquarium shops for sale. Mostly males because of the bright red blue colors.
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#431847 - 12/16/15 07:53 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
Bill Cody Offline
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TJ - You better go with Omaha to make it a team effort that will result in better success. The red shiners are a schooling species so if you locate them in a stream you should be able to easily get dozens if not a few hundred with multiple seine hauls in various places along the stream course. IMO Your best success will be in the smaller tributaries during spawning season. They will travel upstream to smaller branches of the stream for spawning. In fall, winter and early spring they would be in the deeper pools that would be harder to efficiently seine.

One thing to try is to go the NANFA.org forum and ask what members in your state know where, what streams, or how to get some red shiners. That group is knowledgeable and helpful. One of them may help do some seining.


Edited by Bill Cody (12/16/15 08:04 PM)
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#431857 - 12/16/15 08:35 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: teehjaeh57]
JKB Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Thanks Bill...maybe I should send Omaha on a Platte River seining run this Winter.


We have a Platte River up here with a State Hatchery on it.

Who would a thunk that two rivers would be named the same.

Must have been a guy named Platte that wandered around a bit claiming rivers wink

The facility is pretty cool tho. I want it!!! Thought about moving up there and getting a job, but that would just be way too cool!

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#431861 - 12/16/15 09:02 PM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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I think French trappers, who paddled the Missouri and Platte rivers beaver trapping, named the Platte. The French word for flat is "plate", so literal translation is "flat water". Don't quote me on that - but I think it's at least close. The Platte is a shallow, meandering, turbid and sandy river in most of Nebraska and only native Nebraskans typically appreciate it's beauty...I guess the same goes for amber waves of grain.
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#431900 - 12/17/15 09:26 AM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: teehjaeh57]
Omaha Offline
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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Thanks Bill...maybe I should send Omaha on a Platte River seining run this Winter.


You supply the horse trough and Busch Light and we'll get this done.
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#431922 - 12/17/15 11:52 AM Re: Redhorse Shiners [Re: Snakebite]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7785
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Hell it's 50s for the next week, maybe we should head out and get this thing done.
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