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#425496 - 10/02/15 08:39 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
TJ is correct. Carp become hook shy very quickly. I have tried rod and reel control of carp for 15 years and made no headway. Although a few trees have grown to great heights thanks to my efforts and the use of carp as fertilizer.

I have had a good break here recently. A while back I was talking to my neighbor and he was telling me about a pond on his property. Since harvest is done on his property I drove over there last night. I threw a minnow trap in and put hip waders on. The pond is about 1/5 of an acre in size (perfect size for my seine), at least 4.5 ft. deep and apparently has an abundant population of fathead minnows (I assume no predator fish of any sort). He has already OK'd me using it as a grow out pond. The only negative to this pond is that it is very difficult to access from May - Sept. I can walk about a quarter mile of corn to get to it, but my management options are limited. My question is, what can and should I grow out to help me with the above stated goals?

1) Blue Catfish - I could wait until my BC are large enough and try to get them to spawn in this pond. My concern is there is plenty of overflow during heavy rains and I'd hate to lose them. I'm leaning toward purchasing BC at hatcheries and possibly building Catfish spawning structures in my large pond to encourage spawning. But growing them out is an option.

2) Bluegill - I'm not sure they'd be an effective nest raider or eat carp fry, but they would be easy to grow out and certainly wouldn't help the carp population. Negative - they wouldn't hurt my carp population much. Positive - They would take to feed well on my big pond.

3) Crappie - I already have a small reproducing population of crappie in my large pond. I'm assuming if I can improve water clarity they'll begin to take over. I believe I'll assess their population next spring with my fyke net and decide if a grow out pond to supplement them would be beneficial.

4) Golden Shiners - TJ mentioned at one time stocking GSH as they are notorious nest raiders. Growing them out each year and seining them out for stocking come fall seems intriguing. Positives - They'd rob carp nests and be a great addition to the food chain for trophy cats Negatives - not much addition to angling in the big pond.

5) Largemouth Bass - I have had LMB reproduction in my large pond before. But not to a significant degree. They seem like the most efficient predator of 0-1 carp. This may be my best option. Positives - They would hit 0-1 carp hard. Negatives - They most likely won't take to food and therefore won't thrive as a sight feeder in the big pond.


I'll try to include grow out pond picture as soon as I return.

What say you Pond Boss?


Edited by NEDOC (10/02/15 09:14 AM)
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#425506 - 10/02/15 10:22 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
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Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Golden Shiners.

With the goals to use other predatory fish to eat the carp, adding other fish that might take their place feeding those predatory fish detract from the goal.

2nd choice would be Bluegills.

Least impact on your goals for the large pond after Golden Shiners.

If the seine has a large enough mesh to NOT catch the FHM, it would be a perfect scenario. Only seine out the larger fish to transfer, leaving the forage fish in the small pond.

You'd only need to stock 2-3 pairs of BG in the small pond. For GSH, a couple pounds.

To access the other pond during the crop season, what would reparation cost to cut in a track wide enough for an ATV and a small trailer? Or would the $$ be better spent just buying fish?


Edited by esshup (10/02/15 10:24 AM)
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#425516 - 10/02/15 10:48 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
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Loc: SC Nebraska
Another option I should probably consider would be stocking GSH in conjunction with BG or LMB in the grow out pond and try to remove all but a handful of adult fish each fall with a seine.

I probably could get an access road for an ATV, but I'm not really sure I need to. I'm thinking at this time I'll stock it in the spring, and harvest the grown out fish in the fall. I could walk to the grow out pond every month or so just to check on it, but doubt I will need access to it while corn is growing.

I do kinda like the thought of GSH. But I know so little about them I'm not sure how they'll affect my large pond. I need to study up more on them. So input from guys such as yourself is greatly appreciated.
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#425524 - 10/02/15 01:00 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
esshup Offline
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http://www.fishbase.se/summary/276

In smaller ponds, (around an acre), if the ponds have established populations of LMB, and not a lot of cover, the GSH population isn't sustainable due to LMB predation. (IHMO)

In larger BOW's, with sufficient suitable habitat for them, they will stay established.

If you look at different websites that describe the GSH, it's diet and life cycle, I'll bet you find more saying that it eats zooplankton, plant/insects than you will find ones say that it eats fish eggs.
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#425584 - 10/03/15 12:34 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
Corey my thought is until we improve clarity, we're going to have a hard time getting any species going. Not saying it's impossible, but I just can't see successful LMB predation with 4" visibility. I think you should aim for 20-30 BC/ac and another 1-3 FHC/ac and give it 3-4 yrs. Once clarity improves, I think you can start fishing for the big cats and start aggressively stocking BG, GSH, and LMB. FYI I have good sources for those fish - the BG and LMB probably free.

I think you could easily grow out BC in cages around a dock/pier in the small pond near your home to sizes you're comfortable releasing into the main pond. A lot less effort than grow out pond and seining...
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#425590 - 10/03/15 09:28 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
I had the good fortune of having one of my buddy's come out to practice flying his drone last night. At about the 1:30 mark we begin feeding Aquamax LM to my channel cats.

Another video I'm adding for archiving purposes. Stocking SMB and YP in my small pond by my house. Thanks TJ!!



Edited by NEDOC (10/07/15 03:10 PM)
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#425596 - 10/03/15 11:14 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
Lovnlivin Offline


Registered: 05/18/12
Posts: 1485
Loc: Eagle, NE
Very cool, NEDOC!

And here I was looking for reasons NOT to want a drone!

Dang!


Edited by Lovnlivin (10/03/15 01:28 PM)
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#425672 - 10/05/15 06:11 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Me too Keith.
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#425989 - 10/07/15 01:39 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
Well, I appear to be failing the jar test to clear my water. So I'm guessing ridding my pond of carp won't help as much as I'd hoped. In a way, this may be good news. As now I can simply focus on my short term goals of creating a trophy catfishery. I still plan to approach it by using a fyke net to remove carp, if for no other reason than free food for the Blue Catfish. And I'd also like to get rid of them in hopes of getting some rooted vegetation some day. The only way this really shifts my plan of action is that it makes me lean toward using my grow out pond as Golden Shiner pond rather than BG or crappie. Any thoughts? Another thought......... I already get mild catfish spawning with channel cats. Should I install spawning structures to help with spawning? Hoping my BC will eventually spawn as well?
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#426103 - 10/08/15 05:29 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24012
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
If you put in spawning areas for the catfish, mark them so they can be removed when you don't want reproduction.

Getting the water less muddy will help the very bottom of the food chain first, and that will work it's way all the way to the top.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#430120 - 11/26/15 10:06 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
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Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
I wanted to link this article as it discusses carp affecting macro invertebrates and macrophytes. Obviously affecting the food chain from the bottom up (as mentioned by Scott above).

http://www.uidaho.edu/~/media/Files/orgs/CNR/wildlifefish/Faculty%20publications/Scarnecchia/BonneauScarnecchia2015Biomanipulation.ashx



Edited by Bill Cody (11/27/15 09:44 AM)
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#430125 - 11/26/15 10:42 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 181
Loc: southwest Colorado
Thanks NEDOC for the post-it's a good read.

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#430170 - 11/27/15 08:05 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
Pretty amazing reading on carp control methods here as well.........

http://digitalcommons.unl.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1162&context=ncfwrustaff
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#430182 - 11/27/15 10:21 AM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
4CornersPuddle Offline


Registered: 01/24/11
Posts: 181
Loc: southwest Colorado
NEDOC, thanks once again for the latest post. I find it fascinating to read of such a potential carp control method.

For many years I've considered the quantity of carp biomass in so many of our lakes to be a potential source of protein for commercial harvest. If only there were an economically feasible way to mine that protein. It appears a technique for efficient harvest exists.

Cat food, dog food, aquamax, fertilizer made from ground up carp? Go for it!

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#430746 - 12/04/15 12:02 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska

A pretty awesome Thanksgiving experience..... It's very rare to have a common loon in SC Nebraska (if ever at all), but apparently a wounded one decided to spend his dying days on my small pond. He was here for 3 days before he became too weak and died. What an unbelievable animal. If watching the video turn up the volume.



Edited by NEDOC (12/04/15 12:03 PM)
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#430748 - 12/04/15 12:39 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
RER Offline


Registered: 01/23/12
Posts: 1869
Loc: N FL
That outdoor channel show called bottom feeders is al about the carp harvest in Midwestern lakes and rivers. They are taking a lot of meat out of the water that's for sure.
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#430749 - 12/04/15 01:19 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7712
Loc: Lincoln, NE
I'm bummed the Loon died, but glad you had a chance to host for a while. I don't think I've ever seen or heard a Loon in NE before...guess it's migrating South? Wonder where they Winter over?
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#430750 - 12/04/15 01:21 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7712
Loc: Lincoln, NE
OK, here's this:

Concord – February 27, 2010 – If you are one of those hearty New Englanders who stayed in New Hampshire this winter and didn’t flock south to a tropical locale like some other folks I know, you may be wondering, “Where do the loons go in winter – do they go south, too?”

Common Loons, with their characteristic black and white “checkered” back and wings, black head, white “necklace” around their throat, and red eyes, have left New Hampshire for the winter. But they haven’t gone far-and they certainly aren’t basking in the sun in some exotic and warm vacation paradise.

Banding and satellite tracking studies conducted by the Loon Preservation Committee have discovered that loons escape the freezing of New Hampshire’s lakes and ponds by spending the winter off the coast of the Atlantic Ocean – from Maine to Rhode Island.

While there is a lot that biologists still don’t know about loon migration, they do know that loons don’t leave New Hampshire because they feel like it, but rather, because they have to.

Loons are heavy birds with very large feet and, like an airplane, they need long runways to take-off. Loons run awkwardly across the water surface for approximately a quarter of a mile to pick up speed before being able to take fight. If the lake is covered with ice, they can’t run for lift-off and they become trapped and eventually perish.

Loons don’t leave New Hampshire in search of tropical waters down south where the lakes don’t freeze because these waters are too dangerous. Alligators and water bodies that are too warm or too shallow for diving and hunting create big problems for these birds.

The adult loons generally migrate first in large groups, usually two or three months after their chicks hatch and after their beautiful black and white feathers have been replaced by plain brownish-grey feathers. Adult loons leave their offspring behind until their flight feathers become long enough to support their weight. This time also allows the chicks to become capable of surviving on their own before they fly to the ocean.

Typically, loon chicks do not leave their birth lake until just before it freezes. Biologists do not know exactly how the young loons know where to go. This is one of many mysteries.

Chicks won’t return to their birth lake until they are approximately three or four years old, and they won’t be able to reproduce until they are six or seven.

Once they reach the ocean, loons must adapt to life in salt water. Fortunately, loons have salt glands in their skull between their eyes that remove the salt from the water and fish they eat and excrete it from ducts in their beak.

The ocean provides very clear, deep open water for the loons to dive and fish. They group together, riding the waves and hunting in the shallow waters trapping schools of fish and filling their stomachs.

In late-winter, their dull winter coat is replaced by their beautiful black and white breeding coat, replacing their worn out feathers with strong feathers to fly with, a process called “molting.” Loons lose all their feathers at once, instead of losing one or two at a time like most birds, because they need a complete set of flight feathers to hold up their heavy bodies.

If a loon were to try and fly with just a few missing feathers, its wings wouldn’t be big enough to hold up its body. During this approximately two to three week molting period, loons are unable to fly and are in great danger. They must expend a lot of energy to grow new feathers and they have less energy to fight off illnesses or toxins stored in their body fat.

Make no mistake – life on the ocean is not easy for these creatures. They must not only adjust to the stress of molting and a different diet, they must also endure the stress of rough coastal waters and stormy weather, marine pollution and parasites.

Biologists suspect that loons return to the same general area where they were born, often returning to their very own birth lake. Loons will typically arrive on New Hampshire’s lakes and ponds just after ice-out, sometimes on the very next day!
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#430752 - 12/04/15 01:57 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
Thanks for the heads up Bobby. I'll have to catch that show.

TJ, interesting read. But leaves me wondering where he was coming from and where he was going. Hmmmmm..........


From Nebraskabirdlibrary.org............

Where in Nebraska: Fairly common spring and fall migrant in the eastern portion of Nebraska. Locally uncommon summer visitor in the west. No breeding records in Nebraska.

Nebraska Seasons: Look for migrant Common Loons April- May and Oct-Nov.


Edited by NEDOC (12/04/15 02:04 PM)
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#430753 - 12/04/15 02:01 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7712
Loc: Lincoln, NE
Coming from CA and heading too...TX? Does TX have seasonal loons? Gulf of Mexico?
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#430754 - 12/04/15 02:03 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
teehjaeh57 Offline
Chairman, Pond Boss Legacy award; Moderator; field correspondent
Lunker

Registered: 01/22/08
Posts: 7712
Loc: Lincoln, NE
There's this:

Loons return to northern forested lakes and rivers in the springtime, usually in April or early May. The breeding range includes Alaska and much of Canada south to portions of Washington, Idaho, Montana, North Dakota, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, New York, Vermont, New Hampshire, and Maine.

Breeding loons, like those radiomarked in this study, leave breeding areas in late October to early November.

Loons spend the winter season along the Atlantic, Pacific, and Gulf of Mexico coasts. Some loons winter on inland reservoirs.
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#430755 - 12/04/15 02:07 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: teehjaeh57]
Shorty Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4056
Loc: Raymond, NE
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
I'm bummed the Loon died, but glad you had a chance to host for a while. I don't think I've ever seen or heard a Loon in NE before...guess it's migrating South? Wonder where they Winter over?


My folks had a loon on their old pond twice in 20 year period. Last spring I saw two loons while fishing at Branched Oak Lake.

Speaking of Branched Oak Lake, did you hear about the Whooping Cranes that were spotted there a few weeks ago?


Edited by Shorty (12/04/15 04:48 PM)
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#430756 - 12/04/15 02:10 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: teehjaeh57]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
They have a google image of their migration pattern that I'm trying to post but can't seem to get it done. It appears we are on the very western edge of MN and Canadian loons migration to the gulf.
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#430758 - 12/04/15 02:12 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: Shorty]
NEDOC Offline
Lunker

Registered: 08/20/04
Posts: 646
Loc: SC Nebraska
Originally Posted By: Shorty
Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
I'm bummed the Loon died, but glad you had a chance to host for a while. I don't think I've ever seen or heard a Loon in NE before...guess it's migrating South? Wonder where they Winter over?


My folks had a loon on their old pond twice in 20 year period. Last spring I saw two loons last while fishing at Branched Oak Lake.

Speaking of Branched Oak Lake, did you hear about the Whooping Cranes that were spotted there a few weeks ago?


We've got a few Whooping Cranes down here by me right now at Father Hupp WPA. I'm waiting for them to leave so I can be the first in there to shoot some pheasants smile
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#430762 - 12/04/15 04:51 PM Re: Renovating Erickson-Percival Reservoir [Re: NEDOC]
Shorty Online   content
Lunker

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4056
Loc: Raymond, NE
I heard about Father Hupp being closed, looks it was opened back up 2 days ago. Better get out there.

http://www.omaha.com/outdoors/father-hup...a8dd595f17.html

Quote:
LINCOLN — Father Hupp Wildlife Management Area (WMA) in Thayer County has reopened to the public following a temporary closure that was in place to protect whooping cranes using the area.
Six whooping cranes present at the WMA since Nov. 13 left the area and continued their migration south on Dec. 1.
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