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we have a 3/4 acre pond and we threw about 20 adult crappie we caught in there and we still have large bass and huge bluegille and my dads friend has a 1 1/4 acre pond with crappie catfish bass and bluegill there are huge bass (caught a 10lb last year) and the catfish are good too only the bluegill are small. So why is it that you guys always say that they will over populate when they arent here are we just lucky? also we are trying to thin some of the gills and small bass because they are overpopulating i was thinking northerns (i love cathching and eating them)the pond is spring fed and durring normal water levels it is approx 12 ft. deep.

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Helpmypond – I’m relatively new to the forum, and I have just kept quiet about crappies when such discussions arise. However, I’m going to go ahead and make a couple of comments here. First, I want to discuss the crappies. Second, I’ll address the northern pike idea.

I’m with you on the crappies. Although most biologists prefer to keep them out of pond management programs, I’ve seen many ponds effectively managed for nice-sized crappies. The key is to have sufficient largemouth bass abundance. We want the bass, and it’s primarily 8-12 inch bass that are the best, to thin the reproduction by the crappies. Then, surviving crappies go to sizes of interest to anglers. Back in about 1983, Don Gabelhouse, now the fisheries chief for Nebraska Game and Parks Commission, looked through state records listed by 8 Midwestern states for crappies. Of 5 for white crappies, 5 for black crappies, and 3 combined records, 8 of the 13 total records came from small impoundments less than 100 acres in size. Most biologists worry that the reproductive capacity of the black crappies may overwhelm the predation capability of the pond predator, and stunted crappie populations would then result. As I have recently read on this site, these days we seem to see far more stunted largemouth bass populations than overharvested largemouth bass in ponds. I’d suspect some of the catch and release ethic for largemouth bass is involved. In any case, I’d bet you have a reasonable largemouth bass density (in IL, that would be at least 40 pounds/acre), and they have the crappies under control.

Now, another negative for the crappie in ponds is that they are single spawners. In reality, they do not provide as much prey for bass as do bluegills. The bluegills spawn throughout the summer and provide more prey, and more prey of different sizes.

I do have a couple of cautions. The black crappie is a better pond fish than the white crappie. I suspect this is because the black crappies tend to be a little more insectivorous, while whites tend to do better with fish as prey, at least for bigger whites. I’m not saying that big black crappies don’t eat fish, they obviously do. I’m saying that you can produce 12 inch black crappies on a diet of zooplankton and aquatic insects, as long as the bass keep the crappie densities low.

Whew!! I suspect that I’ve probably exposed myself to the wrath of quite a few pond managers out there.

Now, let me switch to the topic of northern pike. I have a very simple opinion – don’t stock northern pike in ponds!! They are an eating machine! They tend to select larger prey than do other predators. For a 24-inch northern pike, an 8 to 10-inch yellow perch is ideal!! My point is that the northerns will compete with you for eating size panfish. In some of my CO work, the northerns easily took 8-10 inch crappies. In some of my NE work, we’ve seen northerns with 10-inch bluegills in their stomachs. That is a bluegill over a pound, and they are really a deep-bodied fish. Your largemouth bass tend to thin the small panfish, so the survivors have more food available, and grow to larger sizes. Northerns crop the panfish from the top down. Also, I’d suspect that about 10 lb/acre is about as much northern pike abundance as you would commonly find in IL. Thus, an average pond of your size probably can support about 12.5 pounds of northerns. Do you want that in two big fish, or six small pike? See my point?? There are just too many strikes against northerns in ponds. I really would not do it.

Hope this helps.

Dave Willis


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From Bob Lusk: Dr. Dave Willis passed away January 13, 2014. He continues to be a key part of our Pond Boss family...and always will be.
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helpmypond - D.Willis negelected to mention that northern pike not only eat 8"-10" yellow perch and big panfish BUT they also LOVE 8" to 12" bass! Two large pike in my 3/4 acre pond loved my small bass so much that none made it to the 13" to 14" size. Got almost no bass recruitment until the pike were removed. I think the pike ate more bass than bgill. Personally, I would rather thin the bass rather than have the pike do it because you have more control if you are doing it.

I tend to agree with his experiences with crappies; both black and white. High numbers of small bass are key to a successful black crappie population in smaller northern ponds. Got to maintain an abundance of small bass esp. during years when the crappie spawn. Young crappies love bass fry to death! and can eliminate or severly reduce bass hatchlings based on the conditions. It depends and is highly variable. Be careful.


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Bill - you certainly are right about the northern pike effects on largemouth bass. We've been working on a small (60-acre) lake in the Sandhills of northern Nebraska. In 1997, a lake survey by NE Game and Parks Commission found no northern pike. In our first sample in 1998, we caught the first two pike ever documented from the lake. Both were less than 15 inches long. By 2002, I could not believe how the pike population had expanded. We found that the pike had increased to 19.6 pounds/acre, which is a tremendous pike abundance.

Anyway, the point of this story is the effects on largemouth bass. Between 1998 and 2002, we found that bass numbers decreased by approximately 69%!! That is, there were only 31% of the number of largemouths in 2002 compared to the 1998 sample.

Dave


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I agree with all replies on Northern Pike. I am in Illinois, and the only time we recommend stocking Northerns is to control Largemouth Bass stunting/overpopulation problems. Having said that, a lot of my customers want Northern Pike or Tiger Muskellunge, and if they make the decision to stock them, we advise about 2 ea. per acre or less.

Crappie are unpredictable at best in ponds. We generally do not advise stocking them, but if you do, Black are a better choice...they do not tend to be strict fish eaters until they reach 7"+. I have seen every case, from great to horrible, with Crappies in ponds. Considering that females are able to generate 60,000 eggs/pound of body weight, the chances for stunting are good. We generally recommend only stocking Black Crappie in ponds/lakes over 5 acres, and only if there is a strong Largemouth Bass Population.

My advice to helpmypond would be to start harvesting the most abundant size classes of Largemouth Bass and Bluegill, but don't over do it on the bass.

Mike Robinson,
Keystone Hatcheries


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OK, here's my take on crappie...

I have client's that want to maximize their trophy bass potential....do not stock crappie b/c they compete with bass for food, compete also with bluegill for food and only reproduce once (less bass forage)

sidenote...I have seen crappie in ponds with huge bass why you ask b/c as Bill mentioned crappie are good at eating bass fry reducing the bass numbers so surviving bass have tons of forage.

If you want crappie... that is fine, but manage them closely, my experience as shown they are consistently unconsistent in spawning/recuirtment success in bass ponds. IN other words they are in low densities for years with only one to two year classes then WHAM they have a dominant year class strength and you have to work very hard to reduce their numbers to acceptable levels. If left unchecked for two years you may have a pond that is basically ruined. TOns of small stunted crappie that compete with others for a limitied food source. In other words stock them with caution, but I think I'm more open minded to their presnce than GA DNR who say never to stock them in less than 20 acre lake.

If you stock them montior their growth closely, if you see tons of small stunted ones take them all out immediately. I have a client who for the last 4 years removes all small crappie caught throws 'em in the garden. Returns all >1.5 lb crappie and removes most of the .5 to 1 lb. crappie for the frying pan. He also has good bass fishing and bluegill fishing.

Why are crappie so successful in recurtiment(at times)?

Answer..they spawn earlier than bass and bluegill. There is at that time nothing than feeds effiecently on less than 1 inch crappie (most fish species are eaten before reaching 2 inches). Once they reach 4 inches, sure a nice 12 inch bass will eat his share, but the damage has been done. WIth bluegill spawning a month after the bass the new bass can fed on the newly hatched bluegill keping them in check.


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The good news about crappie in a 3/4 acre pond is this...when they finally overpopulate (which they will..it's not a matter of "if" as much as "when"), a 3/4 acre pond is easy to fix. You can fix it in one day, and not break your back pocket.
I don't recommend crappie in small ponds either, but if someone wants to try something different, I'll go with them, as long as they know the consequences.
Who told the Wright Brothers they couldn't fly?
Here's facts..a summary of everyone's posts. Crappie are top line predators, limited only by mouth size. They spawn first during the season. Crappie are unpredictable spawners, may not spawn every year. Baby crappie eat everything they can, especially newly hatched bass, bluegill, bugs, etc. Bass eat crappie, if bass are big enough. Crappie like deeper water, with fairly dense cover.
You make the call, but I don't like crappie in water less than 20 acres, especially if managing for bass.
Surprisingly, there's very little out there regarding research of crappie population dynamics.


Teach a man to grow fish...
He can teach to catch fish...

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