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Hi expert guys/gals. Ive been a long time lurker. My pops and I have spent many nights talking about building a YP pond in our neck of the woods. We know we are a little south for them to thrive. We keep a boat on Lake Erie and spend way too much time up there. We fish for Jumbo YP and the trophy WE that Erie is know for. The problem is, it's 5 hours from house (we still go every weekend during open water). And once it gets cold the boat is dry docked and we just talk about next season. We thought a small poud locally that could grow YP would be a good pastime during the winter.

Dad retired last year and bought seven acres in the middle of town. Him and mom are building a house in one corner and they are going to build a 3/4-1 acre pond. Its going to be a nice view off their deck. We just want something to fish in the winter, when we can't get to Erie, to have fun with. "Big" perch is the goal. But it won't be managed intensively. They are both retired and spend most of their time on their 42 foot Trawler. Pellet fed is not going to work as dad wants "natural" ecosystem that is self sustaining. We are both fine with smaller perch than being fed. So what would you guys recommend stocking?

We are going to dig it in the spring. Looking to be 3/4 acre and we are going to aerate from spring to fall during night. Planning on a rectangular pond of 160x210. Deep water will be 16 ft (for the diving board off the deck for the grandkids). We love tinkering in the wood shop and we both love building cover for the crappie in local area's. Structure will be fine. We are the most excited to build structure. We plan on adding multiple (5-8) fish cribs for spawning and protection.

What would you guys recommend for fish? We were thinking to put 3#FHM, 2#GSH in when pond is full in spring (2017). Then in fall add 30-40 3-5" YP.

I am worried about stunted and small YP at this point and I know we should add a predator. I do not care for LMB at all. The pond is going to be well aerated so we are thinking 10-12 WE and 10-12 HSB. That should help take care of the over abundance of YP.

Do you guys think this plan will work as far south as we are? Thanks so much and this site is amazing!!!

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Hey Max,

Welcome to PBF! I was raised in Rush County and love to see new Hoosiers on the forum. It's great you have a specific goal in mind and IMHO it's definitely something that can be done in Indiana. I would suggest before you come up with your stocking plan that you focus on designing and building a pond best suited to meet that goal. Ask questions about what makes a good YP pond and what are the best predator and forage options. There are some folks here that are real pros on YP in Indiana and Ohio. I would bend their ears with lots of questions as you build and then stock the pond.

Good Luck and again WELCOME to PBF.

Bill D.

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/27/15 10:41 PM. Reason: Typo

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We are farther north so I can't really say much about your climate but I can tell you what we did and that it is working very well.

I would recommend covering the bank with 4" medium stone. We used cheap recycled concrete. We placed about 12 feet of this on your 4-1 banks. Stocked with about 200 crayfish and now the pond is full of them. The rock gives the FH a place to spawn and when the weather turns cold a place for the minnows to hide too. A dock with a swim ladder is key for swimming when your shore line is rock.

Making the habitat for the food base is what should be focused on and I would have left ours two years before adding the perch. They really decimated the Fat Head minnows. Common shiners and emerald shiners are doing very well with the caryfish.

Cheers Don.


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Good idea but 30-40 is way to few perch, go for closer to 100-125 and predators should depend on how many perch you plan on harvesting
Also you should increase the amount of minnows


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Welcome. All locations in Indiana should be able to grow trophy yellow perch. I have been working with yellow perch in ponds for 31 years. DonoBBD has a quality YP fishery and has some good ideas based on experience; heed his advice. The common shiner and emerald shiner will only spawn with special moving water conditions and will not thrive in your pond as planned.

Make sure you use papershell crayfish native to IN for the YP to thrive in the shoreline lined with coarse riprap. Initial brood stock of "3#FHM, 2#GSH" is okay if you allow a long time of 2 summers for them to multiply to create an abundant forage base. If time is a factor then increase the pounds of forage brood stock by 2X-3X. By 2017 hopefully there will be some bluntnose minnows and spotfin shiners being produced in IN - stock them to diversify the forage base in the pond. Leave the GSH out until they are needed. GSH can be a nuisance when bait fishing for YP. Diverse abundant forage will be needed to produce a quality YP fishery without pellets. Also IMO it is harder by taking more management effort to produce a quality YP fishery if one is doing it with only natural forage. Also the YP trend to smaller sizes and fewer larger YP.

Being facetious here, it is a good thing you do not want to feed the YP pellets because if you did you would want to sell the boat on Lake Erie and stay home to anytime catch 12"-15" pellet raised YP. The only thing you would be missing by selling the boat would be having less money and catching 5 lb to 10 LB walleye. Walleye very seldom grow to 5 lb in ponds, but YP will grow to 16" in ponds if managed correctly. Been there done all that; erie boat, YP & walleye.

See this thread for some pictures of pond pellet raised YP. Larger perch can be raised in a pond that has only natural forage.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=430313#Post430313
Producing large perch the natural way requires more management effort for more of them to get large and there will not be as many large ones per acre. For best results you should monitor the perch density closely to keep them and the forage fish at a density that is best for optimum growth. There are several ways including proper predation to manage the number of YP in a pond.

Too many YP in a natural food pond usually results in slower growth and fewer harvestable perch compared to pellet feeding perch. Pellet feeding can be done with an automatic feeder that could function with only refilling it every 1-2 months in a 3/4 ac pond depending on number and sizes of perch per acre. Pellet consumption decreases noticeably of the largest perch during mid summer. Daily hand feeding is not necessary but it allows closer monitoring of the YP population of numbers and most common range of sizes.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/29/15 04:36 PM.

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Howdy Max and welcome. I hate to admit that I agree with Bill D but he has good points. All the advice you have received is good and completely fine tuned by Dr Perca (why do they call him that)? You are located fairly close (closer than you are to the lake)to three guys that have done very great things with YP. Bill Cody, Cecil Baird and JamieE. I haven't done as well as they have but will extend an invitation for you and your pop to come up and visit/fish. Bee nice if ya could arrange a weekend trip and get to see all of the above mentioned. BC and CB are very good folk and usually open to schooling the us grasshoppers. Have'nt had the pleasure of meeting Jamie but in pms and phone conversations he has been very nice. I hope that both Cecil and Jamie will chime in.
The only advice I can offer is what I always harp on. Why have one 3/4 acre pond when ya could have three 1/4 acre ponds? I would just love to have a small forage pond. I agree with your dad about being as natural as can be but have found that I almost enjoy my daily evening hand feeding as much as catching em. Ya don't have to do it every day.
One other thing the pros forgot to mention is that cause YP lay ribbons of eggs rather than bedding is they can be controlled by removing the ribbons. Bill C taught me to cut saplings, lash em together and put em in the water before the YP lay out the ribbons. Won't get all the sacks but will get lots.
I have a 1/4 acre pond with YP, SMB, WE, HSB and unwanted CC. The WE and HSB are fun but rare, the SMB are the real blast. I have 13-15" YP but am pleased when I catch a 10".
I have a pretty good population of BNM and SFS. I don't have a fish dealers license but we could probably barter a trip on Lake Erie for some of them. If not, I'll just give ya some breeders. One very important thing is to provide proper spawning structure for the minnows. We can get into that later, ya got all winter ta plan. PLEASE do consider more than one pond. I have made plenty of mistakes but the worst one was only digging one pond. Small ponds are easier to manage and can be designed to benefit the others.
Also ya don't have ta line a whole pond with rock for good Crawdad habitat. You have children so ya should have a small beach. Just 15' wide at the water level and 4-1 slope will give enough room for several people. You'll find that those individual air mattresses are very enjoyable.
Good luck, ask lots of ?s and have a ball.


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Thanks for all the replies guys! Very appreciated! I will be bending your ears alot more in the future.

I should have specified. I am pretty far south in Indiana (I can see the Ohio River and Kentucky from my house). I know we are a little too far south for this type of pond but plan on building a little deeper pond (dad says 14 and I keep telling him we should bump it to 16 or 18) and we are going to aerate and then aerate again.

Our goal isn't to have a pond full of 15 inch perch (although I wouldn't complain!). It's to have a fun recreational pond for when our boats are on dry dock in the winter. We won't fish it much spring-fall. One reason being I don't want to stress the fish when it's that warm. We will take very few fish except in the winter and even then we won't harvest WE or HSB unless they are towards the end of life and we will replenish stock. So can I go a little heavier on the predator side knowing that we don't plan on using the pond as our main source of perch for dinner. I like the idea of laying structure and then removing after spawn to help control perch numbers.

I think we will up the minnows considerably for initial stocking. We also plan on as much structure as we can get away with. And I really like the idea of a forage pond Bob-O! We have an amazing White Crappie fishery here on the Ohio River and a place to not buy minnows for that, and to supplement in the pond would be awesome.

We are not in any big hurry. We figured we are going to dig the pond this spring. It probably won't fill until the following spring, we will then stock our forage and give them an entire year, maybe year and a half before added the YP. That puts us to spring of 18. Won't add any predators until spring of 2019.

And Bill Cody, I know you were kidding but I could never give up Erie! Nothing like a monster WE or SMB on the end of your line. We had a day last spring where we had 7 WE over 11 pounds and 3 SMB over 4.5. Can't give that up smile

Thanks again guys!

Last edited by MaxH; 12/01/15 05:52 PM.
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You can do your plan even in far south Indiana. Don't be too concerned about catching too many YP during mid-summer because the large ones bite and feed the least during the heat of summer. Using non-reproducing predators will give you a lot more control of managing the YP numbers for a balance that is skewed toward fewer larger perch. For a natural food fishery expect 150 maybe 225 lbs of fish per acre dispersed among all species. In high fertility alkaline soils the poundage could be up to 275 lbs if a natural bloom is maintained were water has a clarity of 2.5-3ft. As a comparison for interested readers, in similar ponds where regular feeding a good quality fish food is used the total fish poundage can be close or exceed 600 lbs/ac.

Erie has been producing some great catches even during the harmful Microcystis algae blooms. Recent egg hatches have also been good which should keep the fishery 'strong'.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/01/15 09:05 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
For a natural food fishery expect 150 maybe 225 lbs of fish per acre dispersed among all species. In high fertility alkaline soils the poundage could be up to 275 lbs if a natural bloom is maintained were water has a clarity of 2.5-3ft. As a comparison for interested readers, in similar ponds where regular feeding a good quality fish food is used the total fish poundage can be close or exceed 600 lbs/ac'.


Bill, I don't want to go off topic here, but these numbers really have caught my attention. My pond is of similar size to this, I have been running the feeder as much as it will run. What kind of time frame would you estimate that it would take before you could harvest fish in these numbers? I've only had my YP in for 4 or 5 months, but next year I'm expecting them all to be eating size. (Please remember, I "think" I have in the neighborhood of 1,170 YP in my one acre pond. (If they all survived the initial stocking.))

I took 15 pounds out this fall, could you estimate how many pounds of YP I really should take out next year?
Sorry about the hijack..
Thanks
Jeff


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Question was: "What kind of time frame would you estimate that it would take before you could harvest fish in these numbers?" When to harvest and how many to harvest in a pellet feeding situation is really dependent on the goals for the pond. Some important factors to consider are amount of recruitment, the current population density, and the structure of the age classes (range of sizes).

IMO the first thing to evaluate is about how many of the 1,100 YP are still present. You are going to best DIY evaluate this in your 1ac pond by counting the number of spring spawn egg ribbons and more accurately watching about how many YP are showing up at pellet feeding 2-3 weeks after the spawn i.e. post spawn, and how long each quart of pellets lasts once they hit the water. In most small ponds (0.3-0.7ac) a high density of YP can consume about a gallon of pellets in 10-20 minutes. Total amount of feed consumed during post spawn feeding sessions is also a good guide for YP density. When the feeding activity noticeably decreases then the pellet eating population is satiated.

For YP, as the water temperature gets higher than 78F-80F total pellet consumption noticeably decreases especially for larger perch. In the warmer 80F-85F water smaller YP less than 9" will often still surface to eat pellets although the aggressiveness often decreases. Hand feeding daily or periodically during post spawn is the best way to get a fairly good idea of the YP density during feeding times.

Once you have a visual estimate of the YP numbers then you can safely harvest 20%-30% of the population. Another item to help evaluate the harvest number is how abundant do the 6"-8" perch appear to be either at feeding time or caught by angling? These smaller YP are the ones that will grow to harvestable size for the next year. If you are not seeing or catching numerous 6"-8" YP then reduce the number of YP that are harvested for that year.


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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody


IMO the first thing to evaluate is about how many of the 1,100 YP are still present. You are going to best DIY evaluate this in your 1ac pond by counting the number of spring spawn egg ribbons and more accurately watching about how many YP are showing up at pellet feeding 2-3 weeks after the spawn i.e. post spawn, and how long each quart of pellets lasts once they hit the water. In most small ponds (0.3-0.7ac) a high density of YP can consume about a gallon of pellets in 10-20 minutes.

Once you have a visual estimate of the YP numbers then you can safely harvest 20%-30% of the population. Another item to help evaluate the harvest number is how abundant do the 6"-8" perch appear to be either at feeding time or caught by angling? These smaller YP are the ones that will grow to harvestable size for the next year. If you are not seeing or catching numerous 6"-8" YP then reduce the number of YP that are harvested for that year.


Bill, this is exactly what I needed. Thank you. I'm printing it off and will follow it.
My guess is that I lost quite a large percentage of my YP right after stocking. I have never seen more than a few dozen YP rise when the feeder has gone off. After I caught 30 earlier this fall, I saw even fewer at the feeder. I'll have numerous branches in the water in February, and I'll see what happens. I was running the feeder for just a one second burst. I would guess 50% of the feed (am 500) was getting eaten by YP, the rest was pushed around and eventually eaten by many, many FHM.
Thanks again


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Jeff, I'd suggest you let the YP do their thing till they spawn. The yoy YP will be your main food for those smallies next year. Those SMB will have grown a LOT, munching on all the FHM and GSH. (I'm positive the GSH established and most, if not all YP made it). You have a boat load of natural forage, and lots of YP prefer eating pellets once they've sunk.



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Max, Welcome! A quality YP pond is entirely doable where you are!!! I'd strongly suggest investing in a Texas Hunter Feeder though if you don't plan on more intensive management. A feeder will more than pay for itself! I'd suggest numbers more like 10# FHM, 200 4-6" YP and optionally, 10# of Golden shiners to start. Fall or spring stocked (FHM and GSH as soon as a couple feet of water are in.)

The next spring or fall after the YP are in, add 25 WE, 25 HSB and 25 Small Mouth Bass. If wanting to stock all at once, double the FHM weight and make sure the WE, HSB, and SMB are the same length or slightly smaller than the YP length. You won't wanna fish anywhere else in a year!

Last edited by Rainman; 12/02/15 06:27 PM.


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Please strongly consider Bob-O's suggestion of a smaller companion pond or ponds. I would love to have a single 1-acre pond and two 0.25 acre ponds instead of the single 2.2 acre pond I have now. Small ponds are great for growing forage to feed to bigger fish that would otherwise wipe them out if all grown together.

Also, there is such a thing as too much structure. If it provides too much cover from predation, the prey can overpopulate and stunt. I think 20% coverage is the general recommendation.

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+1 Even with my little .4 to .5 acre main pond, I would love to have even a tiny pond or 3 to "play" with.

On the flip side, it seems to be bigger BOWs have bigger fish.

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/02/15 07:29 PM. Reason: Clarification

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
+1 Even with my little .4 to .5 acre main pond, I would love to have even a tiny pond or 3 to "play" with.

On the flip side, it seems to be bigger BOWs have bigger fish.


I dunno, Cecil has the state record YP and his BOW is pretty tiny...

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Good point! IMO pellet fed fish are way different than those just in an old farm pond with the fish eating what ever they can catch.


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Hmmm....makes me wonder how long it will be before we see the "free range" fish vs pellet raised at the grocery stores. Already have the "wild caught" in several species. If it's like organic anything the price will go way up and folks will pay it.

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/02/15 08:04 PM. Reason: Clarification

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Originally Posted By: Rainman
Jeff, I'd suggest you let the YP do their thing till they spawn. The yoy YP will be your main food for those smallies next year. Those SMB will have grown a LOT, munching on all the FHM and GSH. (I'm positive the GSH established and most, if not all YP made it). You have a boat load of natural forage, and lots of YP prefer eating pellets once they've sunk.


Going to be fun watching things unfold. I'm sure hoping they are doing well. They are sure good at being invisible. I'll have branches out in February.


9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Hmmm....makes me wonder how long it will be before we see the "free range" fish vs pellet raised at the grocery stores. Already have the "wild caught" in several species. If it's like organic anything the price will go way up and folks will pay it.


We already have "wild" and "farm-raised" salmon, and will soon have "non-GMO" salmon. I just need my own "pet-rock" idea to take advantage of our vast human intelligence:)

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Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Originally Posted By: Rainman
Jeff, I'd suggest you let the YP do their thing till they spawn. The yoy YP will be your main food for those smallies next year. Those SMB will have grown a LOT, munching on all the FHM and GSH. (I'm positive the GSH established and most, if not all YP made it). You have a boat load of natural forage, and lots of YP prefer eating pellets once they've sunk.


Going to be fun watching things unfold. I'm sure hoping they are doing well. They are sure good at being invisible. I'll have branches out in February.


Yep, they can hide. I know they cut back feeding in hot weather but they are about all I have feeding now except for a few 3-4 inch bluegill. I'm rather new to them and I'm not sure how long into winter they will be feeding but I'll keep feeding them as long as they eat and the pond isn't froze over. I didn't see any ribbons last year on branches in the water but I did catch a few decent females with eggs and I have a couple sunken brush piles. I've also seen no fry in minnow traps either but the SMB and HSB may have prevented much if any recruitment.

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Originally Posted By: poppy65

Yep, they can hide. I know they cut back feeding in hot weather but they are about all I have feeding now except for a few 3-4 inch bluegill. I'm rather new to them and I'm not sure how long into winter they will be feeding but I'll keep feeding them as long as they eat and the pond isn't froze over. I didn't see any ribbons last year on branches in the water but I did catch a few decent females with eggs and I have a couple sunken brush piles. I've also seen no fry in minnow traps either but the SMB and HSB may have prevented much if any recruitment.


I have the exact same situation. Except my YP pretty much stopped coming to the feeder. I have no idea how many YP I have left. Hopefully, the ribbons next spring, if there are any, will tell me how many I have left. All I had in the pond last winter, were a million or so FHM. I've still got a lot of those, despite the best efforts of a few green herons, a great blue, and a few kingfishers.
I had a lot of brown and green algae all summer, but the water is pretty clear now.
My guess is the SMB and HSB are working over the FHM now, unless they slow down in the colder water..

Last edited by SetterGuy; 12/04/15 08:07 AM.

9 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM (no longer), HBG (going away), SMB, and HSB (only one seen in 5 yrs) Restocked HSB (2020) Have seen one of these.
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.
Otter attack in 2023

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