Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,899
Posts557,064
Members18,451
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,408
ewest 21,474
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,110
Who's Online Now
21 members (e_stallman, FishinRod, esshup, Justin W, Augie, bstone261, jpsdad, emactxag, Ron crismon, Dave Davidson1, Saratznj, Donatello, Layne, Freg, Sunil, tws3, rjackson, jludwig, Shorthose, DenaTroyer, Theo Gallus), 696 guests, and 159 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
S
scott69 Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
S
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
i worked hard at my old pond to cull only female bg. my goal was to grow big bg. it was hard for me to keep a good program going due to otters. but it seemed that most of the bg that i caught were male. now my new pond pond has bg that are about 8 months old and i have done a little fishing, it seems like most that i catch here are male. is this common or do they usually have more of a 50-50 ratio?

Last edited by scott69; 11/29/15 07:18 PM.

Scott Hanners
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Scott,

Just a thought and I am not a pro....BG spawn often, especially in your area where water temp remains favorable for a long time. If you happen to be fishing over spawning beds during spawn then I would expect a predominately male catch as they attack your bait to defend their nest....Just my 2 cents

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/29/15 09:00 PM. Reason: Clarification

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
E
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Hall of Fame 2014
Lunker
E
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 21,474
Likes: 264
See this from PB mag Cutting Edge:

CNBG have the same sex ratio as BG (50/50).

From a prior post.


THE CUTTING EDGE – SCIENCE REVIEW
By Eric West


Coppernose Bluegill vs. Regular Bluegill – which one for you?


A question we often get on the Pond Boss Forum is should I stock Regular Bluegill Lepomis macrochirus macrochirus or Coppernose Bluegill Lepomis macrochirus mystacalis also previously classified and referred to as Lepomis m. purpurescens . To answer that question we should look at the traits of both and use the one that will work best for the particular goals for the water in question. As we all know traits come from genetics. So what is the difference in the genetics of Coppernose vs. Regular Bluegill? Well it started a long time ago and it took a long time to get there. Here is the basic story. Millions of years ago peninsular Florida was, like it is today, connected to the mainland. Bluegill were present all over the eastern US. Sea level rose and peninsular Florida was cut off by the sea from the mainland creating two separate populations. Bluegill on both the mainland and on the peninsula continued to evolve separately each influenced by local conditions with a divergence time of roughly 2.3 million years. After a few million years of this separate path sea level fell and the two land masses were connected again. However the two bluegill sub-species were now a little different genetically. The rivers were connected and the two subspecies migrated and integrated in a zone along the deep southeast where the two sub-species mixed. If this sounds familiar it should – it’s the same story as the Florida Largemouth Bass and the Northern Largemouth Bass where the divergence time between Northern (M. salmoides) and Florida (M. floridanus) bass is approximately 2.8 million years. If you know one story you should have a fairly good idea of outcome of the other. Surely as a pond owner you have heard the bass story. Florida Bass get bigger under the proper circumstance and do not due well in cold climates. Yes Bluegill have a similar story.

Coppernose Bluegill get bigger under the right circumstance but do not flourish in colder climates. In fact Coppernose are susceptible to poor results and substantial winter kill in northern US regions as are Florida Largemouth Bass. So how do you tell Coppernose and Regular Bluegill apart. Take a look at the pictures included. The Coppernose has a copper band across its head/nose in adult males, has fewer and wider vertical bars, has orangish/red fin margins and tail coloration , 12 anal fin rays and often light/white fin edges most visible when young. The Regular Bluegill has 11 anal fin rays and none of the other traits mentioned.

So how do they compare? Here are some points from a study on the subject titled Performance Comparison between Coppernose and Native Texas Bluegill Populations by John A. Prentice and J. Warren Schlechte in the 2000 Proceedings of the Annual Conference of the Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies , Vol. 54 at pgs 196-206 looking at growth (size at age) , survival and catchability.

Coppernose Bluegill were significantly larger than Native Bluegill in all scenarios tested with the largest observed difference being 19.2 mm total length (.756 inch) and 33.5 grams ( 1.18 ounces) over 2 years. At 3 years there was a 16 mm (.63 inch) difference on average and at 4 years 24 mm (.945 inch). With other fish species present there was no difference in angling vulnerability between the types. Spawning activity of the brooders began at the same time (last week of Feb in 1995 and first week of March in 1997) and produced the same size offspring for tagging at the same time each year ( mid-April) in what appeared to be similar numbers. Survival of young of the year Coppernose was substantially greater than for Native Bluegill.

Before you draw to many conclusions note this was in Texas where the weather is close to that of the Coppernose’s native range. That is a critical key to success with Coppernose. While there is an often cited study titled Cold Tolerance in Two Subspecies of Bluegill by , A. J. Sonski , K. E. Kulzer , and J. A. Prentice, in the 1988 Proceedings of the Annual Conference of the Southeastern Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies , Vol. 42 at pgs 120-127 , that states Coppernose and Native Bluegill have similar cold tolerances the key is the test was done on bluegill all from the same area (Texas). Its purpose was to determine if Coppernose could survive the Texas climate. There is substantial observed and anecdotal evidence that Coppernose do not do well in cold climates (roughly north of the north line of Arkansas/Tennessee extended) . In the far northern US Coppernose become subject to high winterkill rates. This would be consistent with their similar relationship to Florida Largemouth Bass which have repeatedly been tested to do poorly and die in cold climates. The study first cited above was also in ponds with no supplemental feeding. Reported scientific evidence is substantial that in ponds the most common cause of reduced growth is a shortage of food. It is not known how much, if any, of the early growth difference between the two sub-species was due to limited forage. The two sub species will integrate (inter-breed) with the offspring exhibiting mixed traits and no apparent negatives but there is very little published data on them.

So the answer to the question should I stock Coppernose Bluegill or Regular (native) Bluegill or both is – it depends. Your location (climate) and your goals are key factors. If you are in the Deep South or the Southwest (including Southern California) and not at high elevation (Appalachian, Rocky or Sierra Mountains) Coppernose should be considered. In short is your temperature profile similar to those areas? To some extent management practices and the existing bluegill population, if any, are also possible factors. Whichever type you choose keep in mind that the most important factor to growing nice bluegill is to be sure they have enough food to eat and not to much competition.

See this link from the archives done by Bruce and the other mods.

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92482#Post92482

Last edited by ewest; 11/30/15 11:38 AM.















Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
S
scott69 Offline OP
Lunker
OP Offline
Lunker
S
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,093
Likes: 1
Bill, I agree with your thoughts on fishing the beds, but I usually cheat and just fish off the dock near the feeder, especially when I was trying to catch enough to eat. I do use a small spinner type bait all over the lake. it is good for lmb and bg. It still seems like I just catch way more males than females.


Scott Hanners
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
You know I have never really paid attention when fishing BG which sex I catch more often. I will next spring when fishing. I wonder now if it is the male's aggressiveness that just makes them "quicker to the bait" than the females. Perhaps that goes for fingerlings as well; ultimately resulting in a higher male survival rate. I have absolutely no documented studies to support that thought......Just wondering on a cold rainy November night.

This is where we need somebody that handles a lot of fish like Rainman or Overtons or Cecil or....to offer an opinion.


Last edited by Bill D.; 11/30/15 08:03 PM. Reason: After thought

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Moderator
Offline
Moderator
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 5,284
Likes: 288
Originally Posted By: scott69
..I do use a small spinner type bait all over the lake. it is good for lmb and bg. It still seems like I just catch way more males than females.

Maybe the spinner is pre-culling fish based on size. If so, it makes sense that more males would be caught. Just a guess.


AL

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Depends on the time of year for aggression. Females seem to stay a bit deeper, hovering and suspending around structure when spawning season comes, males more shallow and aggressively defend the nests. Cuckhold males seem more aggressive then also...I have nothing empirical to add..

Dragging a seine negates the need for a hook or getting too many of one gender! wink

Last edited by Rainman; 12/02/15 01:12 PM.



Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
Bob Lusk, GaryK, GrizzFan, PhotographerDave
Recent Posts
Brooder Shiners and Fry, What to do??
by esshup - 03/28/24 08:28 AM
Alum vs Bentonite/Lathanum for Phosphorus Removal?
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:23 AM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:22 AM
Dewatering bags seeded to form berms?
by Justin W - 03/28/24 08:19 AM
Reducing fish biomass
by FishinRod - 03/28/24 08:18 AM
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by jpsdad - 03/28/24 07:40 AM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:05 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/27/24 06:02 PM
Questions and Feedback on SMB
by Donatello - 03/27/24 03:10 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by Bill Cody - 03/27/24 10:18 AM
2024 North Texas Optimal BG food Group Buy
by Dave Davidson1 - 03/27/24 08:15 AM
Freeze Danger? - Electric Diaphragm Pump
by esshup - 03/26/24 09:47 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5