Pond Boss Forums INTRO New Forum Member Introduction New pond...need help

Recently bought a new home on 38 acres. Have 2 ponds, one just over one acre and one that is 10 acres. The previous owner told me there were 7 lb LMB in the large pond. I have been fishing for about 2-3 weeks and have caught 50-75 bass all about 12 inches in length. I suspect he has never harvested any bass. Would it be smarter to harvest bass 12 inches and under or try to increase the food supply? My goal for the 10 acre pond is trophy bass. Any thoughts or suggestions welcomed. You have a great forum here.

I live in central Kentucky. The lake is spring fed and up to 21 feet deep. I have caught 5 crappie on crankbaits as well as several nice bluegill. Apparently there are some channel catfish in the lake also.

Welcome to the forum. Others with lots more experience will be along with advice. I've only been managing a pond for 3 years so better they than I give suggestions.

But wanted to say hi and welcome. You have come to a good place for advice.

Thanks snrub. I am glad I stumbled onto this place. I ordered Mr. Lusk's book Raising Trophy Bass. Suspect that is a good place to start. Should probably also subscribe to the magazine...

The quick answer is to cull 14 inch and under bass.

However, there's more to it than that. The biggest wild card is the forage base that makes up the predator/prey ratio. And, it doesn't pay to add more groceries that will immediately be eaten. It's what we call an expensive snack.

The crappie can be a problem. Like a bass, they have a hinged jaw and compete directly with the bass for food. And, since they spawn earlier than bass, they take first shot at the small fish that will never get big enough to feed your big bass. Cull every crappie that you catch.

Take some time to get to know the ponds. Keep a log of all fish caught but pay a lot of attention to water quality and forage. Look at the ratio of length vs weight of fish caught. It's called RW or WR and can be found on lakework.com.

Take a sample of the water and have it tested. Texas A&M and others do that. Not sure about your area. If you are in pine tree country, the water might need to be limed and/or fertilized.

But, the biggest issue is generally the forage base. A couple of old adages is that a bass needs to eat 10 pounds of forage to gain 1 pound. And, that forage needs to between 1/4 and 1/3 the body length of the bass. The size matters because it's a matter of energy expended vs calories gained.

So, at this time I wouldn't undertake a management program until I had a better understanding of what I needed to manage.

BTW, welcome to PB and pond ownership. Yeah, subscribe to the mag. It answers questions that we never think to ask and helps pay the bills here.

Thanks Dave. Will look into who can test my water sample around here. Is pH the most important variable? Sounds like I should keep every crappie I catch. I did harvest 12 bass this weekend and gave the kids their first taste of truly fresh fish. Have a lot to learn. Glad I found this forum to help. Any other suggestions welcomed.

10 acre pond can be a Heaven or Hell if not managed correctly. As Bob Lusk always says the Blue Gill is your back bone for food for your LMB. So if you want bigger bass you need a lot of BG in different size ranges. I can tell you this those 12 inch bass are eating everything man and your 6 or 7 inch crappie are too! IMO a 14 inch bass is fun to catch even for the kids so I would throw a solid 14 inch back if his RW was right, but anything under 14 get rid of it. Which means 13.75 get rid of it!!

Think about it for a second. Let say you take out 50 to 100 LMB under 14 inches. You think you done good and that's not bad it's better then nothing right.

Then all of a sudden spring rolls around and you have who knows how many bass having more babies. Lets say you only have 10 bass in your pond spawn. Well each one of those bass depending on size can have up to 2,000 to 40,000 eggs each. Let say all ten of them only have 5,000 each.

That's 50,000 new LMB in your pond lets say 95 percent of them got eaten by other fish. That's 47,500 fish ate. Well guess what that still means you have 2500 new LMB in your pond that made it and will now start to eat your forage fish! And you only took out 50 to 100 the year before. You see where this could go right?? It can become a mess quick!! Good luck man. Not trying to scare you or nothing. LOL but like Dave said get to know your pond before you do anything to drastic....

RC

BassDoc, welcome to the forum.

I agree with everything that Dave said, but want to add that you should remove every catfish you catch too. Once they get over around 3# they will compete directly with the LMB for food. There is a relative weight chart in the Pond Boss Archives. Print it out and get familiar how to use it. If you want to get technical, any size class of LMB that is below a relative weight of 90 to 100 should be thinned extensively if your goal is to grow trophy LMB. In an average, balanced pond, expect to remove roughly 20# of LMB per surface acre per year. To reverse a LMB stunted pond, remove 30# to 40# of LMB per surface acre per year, especially in the age class of fish that are stunted the most. Typically that will mean removing every LMB under 14" (that means even 2" fish) like Dave said.

Managing pH is important, but how you go about that is the question. pH will swing like on a bell curve from morning to night. Here's something that will help you understand how to manage pH.

http://www2.ca.uky.edu/wkrec/AlkHardness.htm

Thanks so much for the responses RC51 and esshup. I am working on clearing out the little fellows. If I remove 300-400 bass a year, how long before you think I should notice a difference?

I will work on getting all the crappie AND catfish out. Rumor has it there is a 20+ lb catfish in the lake. Will move them and the crappie to the smaller lake.

Welcome Doc. You will soon see I'm a very simple man, that's cause it's easier to do things the simple way for me (I'm also kinda lazy). So in my mind if ya want a BOW that has trophy Bass, why not do it on a smaller scale? I have a 1/4 acre pond so to me a 1 acre pond is a pretty challenging management situation. Ten acre BOW removing 30-40 lbs per acre per yr = 350-400 lbs per yr, you're gonna have some tired arms. 1 acre BOW removing 30-40 lbs per acre per yr = 30-40 lbs, seems doable. Everything about a smaller BOW is easier to keep a handle on. Check through the archives about the size of fish that Cecil raises in little more than well managed puddles. The sizes of Trout he raised in a 1/10 acre pond are staggering.
Good luck and remember patience is virtue. Bob-O

I wouldn't move them. The catfish will be almost impossible to catch again, and the crappies won't do well in the smaller pond, and possibly could cause a lot of problems for you in the future. Get used to eating a lot of fish!!!

It's not the number of bass, it's the pounds of bass. If you remove 400 pounds of bass from the pond each year for the next 2 years you should start to see the relative weights of the LMB increase. That's why keeping records of the fish caught is so important.

Another thing you could do is hire a pond management company to come in and electroshock the pond when the LMB are in pre-spawn mode (vs. post spawn), and have them remove every LMB that has a relative weight of 110 or less, and every LMB that was under 14", plus every crappie and every catfish that comes up. Doing it 1 to 2 weeks before the LMB are on the beds helps ensure that a high percentage of the LMB are in shallow water, where they are easily electroshocked. If they can remove a lot of the LMB, then you will see a quicker turn around of the RW of the LMB.

They can shock the pond at night and that will help ensure that a lot of fish are in the shallows, where the e-shock boat works.

Electroshocking doesn't get every fish in the pond, some say only 10%-20%, so you do everything that you can to ensure the fish will be in the shallows where they will be affected by the current, and the operators will see them when they are stunned. It will help if the water is clearer vs. murky or turbid too.

Don't freak out! 300 to 400 pounds a fish sounds like a LOT hey? No matter where you start you will be better off. The key is starting to manage it! If your start and you listen to good folks out here the only way for you to go is up!!

Keep in mind in your situation when taking out so many bass it is KEY that you take RW records. Cause if you start to catch more and more bass that are in the 95 to 100 percent RW ratio that will tell you that you are going the right direction and you may be able to slow down how many your start to keep....

If it were me I would go someplace if I had a good spot and catch every BG I could in the 4 to 6 inch range or bigger and put them in my pond. You say your catching some good BG but are you catching any that are 3 or 4 inches??? I bet not cause they are all gone!! Just something else to think about!! Adding even 50 to 100 nice size BG can help out your forage base quick!! As they will spawn up to 5 times a year and have lots of babies!!! Have fun with it man sounds like a blast to me fish away my friend fish away!!!

RC

Good thought Bob-O. Never considered turning the smaller pond into the trophy pond. It is supposedly 28 feet deep but not spring fed.

I will start to keep stats on all the fish I catch (RW). I will keep all the crappie and catfish to eat. Crappie is my favorite tasting fish.

Will consider getting pond electroshocked pre spawn. Anyone have a rough idea of the cost?

Will also work very aggressively on increasing the bluegill population. Can move some from the smaller pond to bigger pond...

Esshup I grew up on the other end of Indiana (Santa Claus). Glad to know there are some Hoosiers here.

Thanks again to everyone who has responded.

Man yeah I would have that 1 acre pond stocked full of BG!!! You would have a never ending supply of forage for your bass!! That would be sweet!!! Fathead minnows , golden shiners.... Perfect setup you got man just got to work it!!

RC

If you think about it a 10 acre pond takes a lot of forage to keep everyone happy I bet and a LOT of money too!! Hence IMO the reason for the 1 acre pond! Forage, forage , forage!!! Talk about keeping cost down! This is just me but I would not put anything in the 1 acre pond other than foraged base fish and use and abuse that baby!!

Good Luck,

To read my story on getting unmanaged LMB numbers in check, click the link below.

Do not put crappie or catfish in the small pond!!! You will regret it.

If you can keep all predator fish out of the 1a pond, use it to grow BG, minnows, crayfish, freshwater shrimp, etc, and seine them into the big pond for forage.

Santa Claus Indiana.....always take the kids to Holiday World at least once a year.

Agree with Bocomo. That 1 acre pond could be a forage gold mine. Load it with everything he said.

I will have to clear out the small pond some before turning into a forage pond. It also has bass and catfish.

Thanks again everyone for the great ideas. Subscribed to the magazine, but appreciate all the personal advice.

Sprkplug used to work at Holiday World as a teen. Great theme park.

hi,Bassdoc. If is it then its amazing.

You would need to drain the small pond with a trash pump and then spread enough hydrated lime to kill every last thing with gills. You can rent the pump and hydrated lime is cheap, just take care to keep it off your skin and out of your eyes & nose.

Operation trophy bass continues. Took out 4 bass under 14 inches as well as a 12 and 8 pound channel catfish this weekend. Thanks again for all the advice and help guys.

Looks like bass are overcrowded/underfed. Relative weight of 0.75 on the first several measured. Not one above 0.9. All in the 12-14 inch range. What size do you think I should harvest? Everything under 12? Under 14? Any thoughts appreciated.

The NORMAL advice is to cull everything 14 inches and under a couple of years after stocking. You won't get them all.

How is your structure situation? Do you have good places for bg fry to live and grow until the hit the 4-5" range?

Adding some brush piles in conjunction with your liberal culling of lm could benefit too.

I copied the wr chart on laminated it, it goes to the pond every trip, along with the digital scales.

Good luck, listen to the advice here, your bass will be fatter every year.

Cmm

Thanks guys. I am working on the structure. I have a bunch of damaged vinyl fence I'm turning into structure. Also just got my water testing kit in the mail. Going to work on that over the winter. Water is way too clear. Can easily see my crankbaits 5 feet down. Finished reading Raising Trophy Bass and got lots of useful info. Will also add redear in the spring in addition to likely fertilizing. Lime this winter if alkalinity low. Any other thoughts appreciated. Everyone here has been so helpful. Thanks again.

You might want to add forage until you knock down the LMB population. A pond full of starving 12" bass is going to hammer any 3-4" fish you add -- very expensive snacks.

If you are going to add redear, get the largest ones you can possibly afford.

One great way to do this in your situation is to totally clear that 1 acre pond as described above, and then use it as a 'grow-out' pond. You can then stock 3-4" RES or BG and grow them up to a size where they won't be subjected to heavy predation. At the end of the growing season, you can seine them and transfer to the bigger puddle.