Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Pond in need of help

Hi I'm new to the forum and this is my first post.

I recently purchased a house with a 16 acre pond/swamp in southwest Indiana. My wife and family plan to stay here for a long time so I need to do something with the pond for recreation and esthetics

Details about the pond……
-The pond dates back before 1940 based on historical maps. It receives water via runoff from farm fields on both the west and the north.
-Due to the time, decomposition of plant matter, and silt runoff the average depth is ~3.5 feet. One can push a canoe paddle pretty deep in the muck
-It also has several springs. The springs appear to maintain the water level as we had a dry summer and it did not vary 6” when many ponds in the area lost a couple feet.
-There is a dam on the south east end with a rip rap spillway.
-The dam cannot be raised due to flooding on adjacent property.
-I have a duckweed problem. it is covered if the wind doesn't push it to one end.
-It is reported to have excellent fishing historically though I have struggled to catch much this summer. I was only able to catch a single bass on topwater, spinnerbaits, worms, or live worms. I was able to catch one crappie and a bunch of small bluegills. I am not an expert fisherman by any means but expected more from an unfished pond.
-There have been 5 fish kills in the summer in the past 20 years as reported by a previous pond manager. He reports it rebounds faster than any other pond he has managed. I believe the last one was in 2012.

My goals…….
-Excellent fishing for the family and friends.
-Eliminate most of the duckweed for esthetics.
-Increase depth for recreation.

My questions...
-Does it have fish? Do I need to place some fish traps to assess the population?
-Is it better to start from scratch and stock or work with the established population and genetics for excellent future fishing?
-Is the duckweed there due to depth, environment, or a combination?
-How do I get rid of the duckweed? Dredge, aerate, or ? Is it possible to fix the duckweed problem?
-What are my options? Is this a drain and dredge, hydraulic dredge, or clean up the edges project due to goals, size, and cost?
-I have access to an excavator, bulldozer and truck to manage expenses. Is this something one would want to tackle as a hobby as I have more time than money?

Thank you in advance for your input.

The problem I see is that heavy equipment isn't much good in the silt. And, I think anything you try is going to be expensive.

The pros need to weigh in. 16 acres of muck is a huge undertaking even for the pros.

It seems a slow approach would save money if you were patient. Could you let it 'dry out' somehow by stopping inflow to it? Or pump it out and let it dry a bit? Then bulldozers could easily remove 3-4 feet of muck providing you had a place to push it to let it dry.

With a silted in pond with deep/old layers of muck and related high nutrient problems it seems the best way is always to physically remove the muck. This gives the added benefit of removing the built up 'nutrients' that promote the unwanted weeds/algae, allows you to shape the contour of the pond bottom the way you want it (making it deeper or adding fish 'highways') and then you can contour the banks the way you want them as well.

Best option , if possible, might be to raise the dam about 3 feet and dig out a few areas for deep water.

First: assess the fish population to find out what you have and can it be used in a solid plan to achieve your fishing goals.

Then, if not: Can you drain it, via a siphon or breaking the dam?

As CanyonC mentions, is it possible to take the bulldozer and cut a swath to direct runoff away from the pond while working on it?

Are you opposed to the idea of investing in equipment to pump water while working on it?

In an overview of a working process to dig, one approach would be to dry out as much as possible. Dig a deep hole in an area that you can reach. Use that to pump out of, and let more areas dry out around it. Continue to deepen/widen that hole, or move to another spot and dig another one deeper/ wider. Work back and forth in this method till done. Lots more to it than that, but that's one method.

Do you have a place to dump that stuff? It is the consistency of pudding.

Dear Dave Davidson1,

Thank you for your response. I know it is going to be expensive. The previous owner had a bid to dig out and it was $1,000,000:( I found out after close. I could barely afford the property and will struggle with the cost and time of maintenance. I'm glad it is beautiful and my wife and kids are happy

Dear canyoncreek,

Thank you for your response. I can knock a hole in the dam and dry out all but the springs with catch basins and pumps at the west and north ends depending on rainfall. I have 8 acres of pasture and 50 acres of woods on the property to move the spoils. I think I could increase the 8 acres 18 inches without causing too many problems to the soil structure with proper tillage. The smell could be an issue. I need to speak to a timber person on the issues of moving some of the spoils to the woods. Otherwise, I planned to put in an island or peninsula to also "store" some of the muck.

Dear ewest,

Thank you for your response. Unfortunately, I cannot increase the dam as it will flood a decent size section of the neighbor's field. I try to be a good neighbor

Can you use the dozer to temporarily divert runoff off away from the impoundment? Then you could pump it dry. Over time it should dry enough for you to start working on it. But, it would take several years.

Or, could you break the dam without negatively affecting a neighbor? Some of the pudding would leave with the water.

BTW, we only use first names here.

Dear Fish n chips,

Thank you for your response. Would trapping, catching, shocking, or ? be the best way to assess the fish population?

Can break the dam by lowering the spillway. The west and north ends are less than 2 feet deep and will be the first to dry. the max depth is 7 ft. out from the dam. In theory, I could dig a deeper hole near the dam to "store" the fish while I work on the shallow sections unless there isn't a quality population to save. I thought I could set up the excavator on the side near the pasture and push the muck to the excavator to load the trucks for a long time (I think I can move about 18,000 yards to the pasture based on my calculations). I do plan to make fish highways and leave some shallower areas for spawning depending on recommendations from pond management experts.

I am from a farm background and have access to farm and construction equipment. Pumps, bulldozers, trucks, and excavators are all available or possibly could be sourced depending on cost. Surprising, most of the family wants to help dig.

Will removing the muck/nutrient base address the duckweed problem or is it a problem I am stuck with due to seed stock or environment? Will an aerator help to correct the problem?

Dear Dave,

Diverting from the west is hopeless. I would need to dig a ditch across my yard. I could possibly dig a ditch or place a big tile from the north to the canal outlet for drainage.

The dam could be broken and there would be little ill effects. It happened with a 18" rain in 2008. I own the property and the drainage canal for about 2500 ft.

I am a newb.... but can the dredged up silt/muck be put on the swampy part of the BOW? then the pond would be deeper and the swamp would be gone...

Sean

I really don't like to break and then to repair dams. But, if that's the only way to remove the goop..........

What are the dimensions of your pond? Would it be possible to use a dragline to dredge out a portion of the muck? Most of the draglines I see have 70ft or more of reach which would make it possible to create some channels and honey holes for fish structure.The added depth in a few areas might also minimize the number of winter kills.I often see used draglines on searchtempest.com for less money than a good utility tractor.

Dear Tubguy,

Thank you for your response. It is narrowest at about 250' and is 1500' at the longest point. Most of it is 400'+ feet wide. It has not had a winter kill according to the previous pond manager, only summer kills. Will adding channels help get rid of the duckweed and solve the summer kill issue?

Steve

Littlefish,
I will try to answer your questions and hopefully some pros will chime in. The benefits of adding channels would be the removal of some of the muck and the nutrients in the muck that are supplying your nuisance plants.If the channels are deeper than 6ft that would prevent growth of cattails and other pond weeds.There are pond management companies that could treat your duckweed infestation.The best way to prevent summer kill is to add aeration to increase dissolved oxygen in the water,but there is no guarantee because when your BOW meets its carrying capacity you will lose fish.If you add depth to your pond it will usually increase carrying capacity if the amount of DO is sufficient.
The size of your pond really makes it difficult to find cheap solutions to meet your goals. It would be ideal if you could afford to remove the dam,cut a trench the entire lenght of pond and pump it down so the majority of the pond basin dries out enough to be able to use bulldozers, excavators and scrapers.My pond was built during a wet fall and the equipment operators had a hard time moving mud.They had 2 D6 dozers pushing slop up into the surrounding field only to have about 1/2 of the mud slide past the blades.The operators also had a 84000 lb excavator buried up to the counterweight.The contractors fuel costs alone were probably over $500 per day.I would order THE PERFECT POND Book by Mike Otto from this forum, devise a master plan then get 3 or 4 reputable pond builders to give you an estimate .I had four and they were all free.
If you still decide to DIY I think it would be a fun project.You might even be able to do your renovation in phases which would help with costs and time constraints.

A big ole dragline like the old coal companies in this area used to use to move overburden off the top of the coal seam (we live in strip pit country). Next best a long reach excavator with the longest boom stick available and a wide muck bucket like they use to clean out waterways.

Deepen all the way around the pond and leave the center as a shallow vegetated hump area.

That would be my best guess at a somewhat reasonable cost renovation. Not ideal by any means, but nothing short of a huge pile of money is going to get the entire thing cleaned out.

I have done that in mini version around my old one acre pond to make it slightly larger (but the middle of it had already been prior cleaned out).

If you want to see what fun pushing muck with a dozer is, visit my thread on cleaning out my son's old pond.

Reclaiming a 50 year old pond