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#429005 - 11/12/15 07:44 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
SetterGuy Offline


Registered: 10/30/13
Posts: 1487
Loc: NE Missouri
Tbar, did your game cam pick up a picture of the buck making that scrape?
He's got to be decent looking at the damage to that tree.
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4 yr old pond, 1 ac, 15' deep.
RES, YP, GS, FHM, HBG, SMB, and HSB..
I think that's about all I should put in my little pond.

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#429006 - 11/12/15 07:47 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2773
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I forgot to mention, that yesterday while waiting on Walt to deliver my new HSB from Overton's, I was setting up on the hill overlooking the pond and there he was again frown I have a Water Turkey that has been showing up daily and I hate the dam things. As thoughts ran through my head, I was thinking, I raised my son not to shoot what he does not plan on eating, so now I am wondering how I might serve up a meal of water Turkey?? I know !! I know !! So I shot around him with my 22 mag, he left but when I cam back to the pond for the stocking of the HSB, he was back frown So now I am thinking Thanksgiving is just around the corner, and so Water Turkey anyone ?

Tracy
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#429008 - 11/12/15 07:57 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6948
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I was raised in strict adherence to the three "P"'s when it comes to killing an animal, the only three reasons to take its life: Protection, Profit, or Provisions. The fourth "P", Pride, was frowned upon.

If there was absolutely no other means by which I could protect my investment, and I knew that significant damage was being caused by this bird's presence, I would do what I felt needed to be done. But not before exhausting every other maneuver I could think of to try and discourage it from hanging around.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#429009 - 11/12/15 08:23 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: SetterGuy]
Tbar Offline


Registered: 01/10/15
Posts: 726
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: SetterGuy
Tbar, did your game cam pick up a picture of the buck making that scrape?
He's got to be decent looking at the damage to that tree.


Not yet. I turned the game camera so the tree would be in view. I'll check it this weekend.
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#429031 - 11/12/15 12:05 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2773
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Sparky, we agree, I do not want to kill any of gods creatures if I don't have to, like the 3 P's. I have even let a copper head or two walk at my place but not water mocs and now after many attempts of getting the Cormorant to leave and not to return is getting a little frustrating. It's like he is saying u can't stop me !! Dam Bird

Tracy
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#429042 - 11/12/15 01:45 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6948
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I hear you Tracy, and I agree. Sometimes you just have to do what needs to be done.

On another note, I've mentioned before that I'm not a deer hunter but do enjoy squirrel hunting. Here's one that got a pass yesterday, photo taken quickly through the patio door with my phone...hope to get a better photo soon. It amazes me that such a creature can escape predation long enough to grow into adulthood. I watched it cross the valley below the house and start up the other side, a couple hundred yards away, and could still easily pick out that snow white fur against the dark woods.

_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#429065 - 11/12/15 07:21 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Saw 20 different deer this afternoon, but not the big one. I manage the herd for health, but I am a trophy hunter. If you want provisions, get up and go to work. Hunting in this modern age for provisions is usually just an excuse to shoot the easy ones. Just my perspective. I shot a lot of young ones when I was less experienced, but if you keep at it, you can fill the freezer with mature animals. Trophy hunting and good wildlife management are quite compatible. Hunting is a sport in the US, and that is why we still have wildlife. Commercial hunting for food exterminated whitetails in most places.

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#429074 - 11/12/15 07:56 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5867
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Saw a HUGE buck this morning limping across a neighbor's lawn with a bloody hind quarter. Only one guy in our area actually hunts deer here (a lot of houses). Lots of deer though. I expect he is an exceptionally bad shot as I have never heard him shoot one time. It is always at least three in rapid succession. Maybe he figured, with so many deer around, it was easier to shoot another one than track the one he injured? Last time I heard him shooting was Sunday so this buck has been suffering awhile.
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#429083 - 11/12/15 08:34 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I also shudder at multiple shots. I use a bolt action or a bow. I am all for single shot weapons. I have seen two different lame smaller bucks this year, but both had battle scares from fighting. I had the same drop tine on my place for three years that was completely off of one front leg (small rack). Hopefully, the guy you saw will recover.


Edited by RAH (11/12/15 08:35 PM)

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#429090 - 11/12/15 08:54 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5867
Loc: Boone County Illinois
+1 Single shot weapons make you take the time to aim!
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#429091 - 11/12/15 08:57 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: RAH]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6948
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: RAH
Saw 20 different deer this afternoon, but not the big one. I manage the herd for health, but I am a trophy hunter. If you want provisions, get up and go to work. Hunting in this modern age for provisions is usually just an excuse to shoot the easy ones. Just my perspective. I shot a lot of young ones when I was less experienced, but if you keep at it, you can fill the freezer with mature animals. Trophy hunting and good wildlife management are quite compatible. Hunting is a sport in the US, and that is why we still have wildlife. Commercial hunting for food exterminated whitetails in most places.


RAH, I know we've hashed this over before, and you know I respect and value your opinion. But the comment about not needing to hunt for provisions in this modern age just illustrates how far removed you are from a few miles south of your location. Easy is absolutely the way to go when your family is counting on meat for the freezer. I suppose some adopted the lifestyle by choice, while others were born into it. I believe that makes a difference.

I will never understand the wisdom in removing the best genetics from a population of anything, just for the sake of pride, but that's okay. We all must do as we see fit, and there are certainly plenty of deer to be had.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#429096 - 11/12/15 09:09 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5867
Loc: Boone County Illinois
FWIW I see there are three sides to that discussion. My dad never let anyone hunt our land unless they were hunting to feed their families. I respect that. I respect the position that the herd must be thinned and taking out the oldest and biggest, that have spread their seed, fills that need. (Kind of like finally taking that big fish out of the pond that is starting to decline to make room for the new generation). The one I can't respect is those that just want to kill something and there are way to many of those in my opinion! Just my 2 cents
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#429101 - 11/12/15 09:34 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6948
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Bill, I understand where you're going. And if animals had a giant LED, countdown timer on their sides indicating just how much viable, productive life they had left, I would agree. But a fish you hold in your hands, up close and personal, while it's still alive. You can judge, (hopefully, if you've paid attention to PB grin) some idea of where that fish stands in its lifecycle, and decide if you want to harvest or not.

Not so a deer, or a squirrel. If you choose to kill because it's the biggest and best you've seen, and it's legal to do so, more power to you. But if management is high on your list of priorities, wouldn't you fill your tags with the lame, or blind, or infirmed animals? I could've killed that white squirrel easily, saved and preserved its tail for display, eaten the meat, and told myself that I saved it from a horrible, painful death brought by a hawk or perhaps an eagle. But the real truth would've been I killed it because it was unique, and I wanted it. And I would've been perfectly legal in that regard, but there's plenty of other squirrels out there.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#429103 - 11/12/15 09:43 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5867
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I hear ya Sparkie and cannot disagree. Just saying I understand two of the three points of view. As for me, I just don't hunt anymore and haven't for 45 years. I follow my dad's philosophy, the day may come when I need to feed my family; then I will hunt. Until then, I will enjoy watching the critters!
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#429122 - 11/13/15 02:29 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: sprkplug]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
I give deer meat to folks that need it very year. If you count the hours spent hunting, you can provide better for your family working at McD's. Taking a mature deer ensures that the animal has already passed on its genetics. Managing deer is a science, so the scientists can understand it for you:)

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#429126 - 11/13/15 05:56 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13869
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
That trophy has spread his genes for years. Take it if you want it. I have owned my land for over 30 years and am sure that I have never seen the biggest deer on it. My 6 game cams prove that. Those suckers are nocturnal and, in their environment, are much smarter than I am.

I agree Sparky. No way I would shoot an albino.
_________________________
It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#429127 - 11/13/15 06:15 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
We bought our land in 1990 and have converted most from ag land into wildlife habitat. I have never hunted anywhere else. The 10,000+ evergreen trees, thousands of other trees, 2 ponds, prairie areas, and 5 wetlands that we added hold a lot of deer. Much of my deer harvest has been to correct for "meat-hunting" "brown-its-down" hunting practices on neighboring land. There is a reason cattle farmers don't kill off the calves even if it is easier to catch them. Everyone has the right to hunt in any legal manner that they want, but not to pretend it is somehow a more noble pursuit or somehow better for the deer population. Just like managing a pond, there is a lot of science behind deer management. Deer are manged through doe control and limiting buck harvest.

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#429129 - 11/13/15 06:58 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2773
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
I think there is a miss in understanding of deer and their genetics when it comes to the size of it's antlers. Genetics of the deer in the USA are good for the most part, it's the food first, that makes some a trophy, just like fish in a pond. It has been proven that the proper food can improve a deer 35% in just 3 yrs. It has been proven that a spike, when left to grow, may be the trophy buck in just 3 or 4 yrs. It's the farm belt where the deer are bigger, or South Texas where there is overabundance of Browse, their most desired primary food source. Second is age, left to grow older can make him a trophy, and then Genetics. So Food first, Age 2nd, Genetics 3rd that make trophy's. Does that sound familiar here @ the Pond Boss Forum. And another thing is that Does also pass genetics along. Another thing is if hunters don't thin out the deer population, Mother nature will.

Tracy
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


Tracy

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#429136 - 11/13/15 09:01 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: TGW1]
Pat Williamson Online   content


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2727
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
You hit it TRACY got to feed em and get some age on them. And take some does to try to valence the herd

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#429139 - 11/13/15 09:16 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Another vote up for Tracy's post.

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#429157 - 11/13/15 11:42 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6948
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Which is more noble, hanging a trophy on the wall, or providing food for one's family? I would hazard a guess that when the very first shard of knapped flint was attached to a stick, bragging rights never entered the equation. And for those who believe that the need to hunt for sustenance is long past, I will repeat the offer I make every year when this subject comes up: Come ride with me for a day, and I will open your eyes. It still exists and it's still out there, off aways from the blacktop. Assigning blame or coming up with excuses as to why the need still exists does little to stretch the grocery budget.

I'm not a deer hunter, so help me understand. How is it that removing that trophy buck's genetics helps the herd as a whole? Sure, I get that he's hopefully had a few seasons to spread those genetics, but how do you know he doesn't have a few more left in him? Is one season enough? Two? Three? Seems to me that more would be better. If we let that trophy buck go, and he continues to spread those genetics, he will eventually go into decline, correct? So by that reckoning, if I am a trophy hunter I need to kill that animal while he still displays trophy status....in his prime in other words. Is that not counter-productive to managing the herd for improvement? Or is it actually a case of management not towards overall health of the herd, but merely the production of a select few trophy animals, intended for the kill?
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#429158 - 11/13/15 11:42 AM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: RAH]
esshup Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24033
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
I was able to take my 2nd doe of the year Wed evening before the storm hit, she's at the processor now. Both will be given to my family - one to my 85 yr old aunt, the other to my cousin who had the incident with the ATV and cannot hunt this year.

I'm ready for shotgun/muzzleloader season. smile




There's a good sized buck running around, but I haven't been able to get it on camera.


Saw more like that - on 8"-10" dia White Oak trees.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#429169 - 11/13/15 12:29 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: sprkplug]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
If you want to learn about managing whitetails, there is plenty of material available. No need to debate this in the absence of knowledge.

https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&...ils&f=false

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#429170 - 11/13/15 12:30 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: esshup]
RAH Offline
Lunker

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4331
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
Very nice shooting. I do not shoot over 100 yds.

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#429172 - 11/13/15 12:32 PM Re: Hunting 2015/2016 [Re: lassig]
Tbar Offline


Registered: 01/10/15
Posts: 726
Loc: Texas
I spent 3 months negotiating trying to buy a high fence/deer breading operation.

In hindsight I'm glad it fell through(seller took it off the market). $1-2000.00 per month feed bill plus every day chores if I kept the deer would have taken the fun out of it. I wanted it for the property....was going to sell off most of the deer as I don't particularly like the idea of "high fenced" deer. It would have been fun watching my friends drool over the big bucks though. lol

It was a beautiful place with a beautiful pond. Wife wanted to sell but the husband didn't. Maybe it will come up for sale again after the divorce settlement. smile

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